Michael Jordan RC, PSA 10, shatters 100k !!!

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by MJGOAT23

Thing is...I'd argue semantics on them being available for sale and being available for actual purchase...When was the last time anyone got a great deal on a Jordan RC?

Agree with everything you said.

When compared to something like a pristine copy of an Air Jordan I Nike poster, which is the kind of thing RJ is talking about, #57 is pretty available.

[Garrison8]

Such a good point about regrades artificially pumping up the total population report, more than any other card. It has to be an insane %.

[HoyaSaxa]

What is the general feeling about lower graded Beckett cards with good centering (9 or even 9.5), but other lower subgrades (e.g., 5 surface). I came across a Beckett 6 with 9.5 centering, but 5 surface and am not sure it is worth an investment. Thoughts?

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by Garrison8

Such a good point about regrades artificially pumping up the total population report, more than any other card. It has to be an insane %.

I'd be willing to accept that a card like Johnny Moore has a greater percentage of serial numbers with no card. Same 9s submitted over and over trying to get the elusive 10. Eights to get a nine. Just with Johnny Moore, no one submitting NM copies as they are worthless. Shear volume of serial #s with no card, #57 is King Kong.

Fun fact, Johnny Moore is no longer the rarest "10". Jeff Malone is by two. Jeff is about a 3rd of the price. Seems like an opportunity.

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by HoyaSaxa

What is the general feeling about lower graded Beckett cards with good centering (9 or even 9.5), but other lower subgrades (e.g., 5 surface). I came across a Beckett 6 with 9.5 centering, but 5 surface and am not sure it is worth an investment. Thoughts?

Depends on what's wrong with that surface. If there is a fish eye covering Mike's head, I'd say "yuck". Missing paper is what that smells like. Heavy pressure in a 4 screw causing paper to flake off on the corners.

[MJGOAT23]

Originally Posted by Willikn

I'd be willing to accept that a card like Johnny Moore has a greater percentage of serial numbers with no card. Same 9s submitted over and over trying to get the elusive 10. Eights to get a nine. Just with Johnny Moore, no one submitting NM copies as they are worthless. Shear volume of serial #s with no card, #57 is King Kong.

Fun fact, Johnny Moore is no longer the rarest "10". Jeff Malone is by two. Jeff is about a 3rd of the price. Seems like an opportunity.

I think that's been the case for awhile? Alvan Adams and a few others have always been within a few copies of the Moore. The Moore just has the notoriety.

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by MJGOAT23

Thing is...I'd argue semantics on them being available for sale and being available for actual purchase...When was the last time anyone got a great deal on a Jordan RC??? They're almost always the O/C ones, listed for high BIN and/or some sentimental value attached from a huge fan barely willing to let it be pried from their golum hands, or you're battling 50 other bidders on a popular consigner's auction. I got a nice fair deal on a PSA 5 on here once..almost a couple years ago now. Kudos to that gentleman but most any other time i've seen one online, at a show or even way way back in the early 90's it's always a tough buy...I had to be a long time customer for years for the shop owner to even show me his 86 Fleer sets, never mind sell me an MJ RC. I practically had to beg him to sell me one and finally he did. Anyways, like anything else I know this isnt absolute 100%.. I'm sure others have had easier times landing nice copies but this has been my experience over the years in flipping cross-grading and collecting the #57.

These are both great points by both you and Willikin. Population report may be inflated, but my point is less about the exact number, and more that - the card is widely available.

I also agree that. It only depends on what is available for sale. That said, a PSA 8 at 4-5k is an easier hold for most than 10-12k. There are new listings pretty much every day.

All that said, I’ve put myself in a position I don’t relish - arguing against Jordan/#57. To be clear, it’s a great card that anyone who collects that can afford one should buy. I myself will buy another at some point.

I don’t begrudge anyone who has bought in and has benefited from the precipitous rise. For those that own this card - fantastic and congratulations (sincerely). My comments are my OPINION (and I’ve certainly been wrong many times) about the current pricing of the card.

There’s a lot of new money in the hobby, mostly motivated to make a buck, and many come in with a “tell me what I should buy” attitude. Maybe that continues to drive the hype for the foreseeable future, but ultimately it will be reliant on how strong the hands are that are acquiring the cards and the “stickiness” of new money.


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[MJGOAT23]

Originally Posted by rj.cataldo

These are both great points by both you and Willikin. Population report may be inflated, but my point is less about the exact number, and more that - the card is widely available.

I also agree that. It only depends on what is available for sale. That said, a PSA 8 at 4-5k is an easier hold for most than 10-12k. There are new listings pretty much every day.

All that said, I’ve put myself in a position I don’t relish - arguing against Jordan/#57. To be clear, it’s a great card that anyone who collects that can afford one should buy. I myself will buy another at some point.

I don’t begrudge anyone who has bought in and has benefited from the precipitous rise. For those that own this card - fantastic and congratulations (sincerely). My comments are my OPINION (and I’ve certainly been wrong many times) about the current pricing of the card.

There’s a lot of new money in the hobby, mostly motivated to make a buck, and many come in with a “tell me what I should buy” attitude. Maybe that continues to drive the hype for the foreseeable future, but ultimately it will be reliant on how strong the hands are that are acquiring the cards and the “stickiness” of new money.


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I'm basically with ya..MJ RC is at the top of only a few cards I enjoy collecting but there's no way I want buy another one at today's prices...it does feel so fake... I guess I just mean that it may be available, but if you want one, you're paying the rate or more, no real way around it.

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by MJGOAT23

I think that's been the case for awhile? Alvan Adams and a few others have always been within a few copies of the Moore. The Moore just has the notoriety.

I've always equated the Moore to the rarest coin in any set. It doesn't matter that the 2nd rarest is right on its heels. The rarest represents the ceiling of possible sets. It should be the first thing you target, not the last. Second rarest is always VERY distant second, as is the case with Jeff Malone price wise.

The negative approach is that the Moore price tag has made a trimming target for 20 years. The realistic, enough 9s have been cracked and resent (by the right hands) to pump it past the Malone that hasn't been the same kind of target.

I believe Malone taking over the rarest spot is very recent. In the last year? Willing to be corrected. What I know is that the price hasn't been impacted.. yet.

Of no real import, but Jeff was actually good and that is his RC. Moore had an '81 Topps.

[MJGOAT23]

Originally Posted by Willikn

I've always equated the Moore to the rarest coin in any set. It doesn't matter that the 2nd rarest is right on its heels. The rarest represents the ceiling of possible sets. It should be the first thing you target, not the last. Second rarest is always VERY distant second, as is the case with Jeff Malone price wise.

The negative approach is that the Moore price tag has made a trimming target for 20 years. The realistic, enough 9s have been cracked and resent (by the right hands) to pump it past the Malone that hasn't been the same kind of target.

I believe Malone taking over the rarest spot is very recent. In the last year? Willing to be corrected. What I know is that the price hasn't been impacted.. yet.

Of no real import, but Jeff was actually good and that is his RC. Moore had an '81 Topps.

I remember looking at the pops in the last year or two and noticing Malone was at or below Moore but memory is hazy..I don't officially recall when it became less or if it was actually less when I looked back then.

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by MJGOAT23

I remember looking at the pops in the last year or two and noticing Malone was at or below Moore but memory is hazy..I don't officially recall when it became less or if it was actually less when I looked back then.

As you said, Adams right there too. Who knows where those three are five years from now. My only take away for sure, you paid $17k or whatever for a Moore you are rooting for those other two to start rising.

Last point on that subject to avoid derailing. So many stickers lower than all three of them. Kareem sticker by far the rarest 1986 Fleer PSA 10.

[Willikn]

I am guessing a bit, but with zero research feel comfortable saying that the Montana, Payton and Rice RCs, pre-COVID to now, have jumped by a near identical percentage when compared to the Jordan #57. That happened with far less fanfare and at different times. Still not proof that everything is organic, I know. Just that the Jordan RC isn't alone in this.

[vintg]

Originally Posted by Willikn

I am guessing a bit, but with zero research feel comfortable saying that the Montana, Payton and Rice RCs, pre-COVID to now, have jumped by a near identical percentage when compared to the Jordan #57. That happened with far less fanfare and at different times. Still not proof that everything is organic, I know. Just that the Jordan RC isn't alone in this.

no sir.

(I have 4 payton rookies I bought in jan-mar of this yr.)

all have done very well and doubled in value.

psa 8's have basically doubled. +/- $500 to plus or - $1,000
I looked at 9's and 10's too, BUT, 8 has the most DATA POINTS/ SALES

I also have a Montana 7 and 5 (looks a lot nicer, LOL) highly, highly doubt
that's the case their too.

[rainmaker]

Buy in 57 psa and bgs graded 8/8.5 jumped another like 40% this past week. I would say all cards are clearly popping but this is a different beast.

[Archangel1775]

That Fleer case at $1.8 million was a steal...imagine starting at 40 plus 1986 Fleer Jordans after breaking it.

[kefskala]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

That Fleer case at $1.8 million was a steal...imagine starting at 40 plus 1986 Fleer Jordans after breaking it.

funny but that case isn't being opened. imagine starting at 20 of them off centered...

[ThoseBackPages]

no reason to open that case!

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by vintg

no sir.

(I have 4 payton rookies I bought in jan-mar of this yr.)

all have done very well and doubled in value.

psa 8's have basically doubled. +/- $500 to plus or - $1,000
I looked at 9's and 10's too, BUT, 8 has the most DATA POINTS/ SALES

I also have a Montana 7 and 5 (looks a lot nicer, LOL) highly, highly doubt
that's the case their too.

I have 9s so haven't tracked the others.

81 Montana from $600 to $2,000 (330%)
86 Rice from $600 to $2,200 (365%)

86 MJ 8 from $3,000 to $11,000 (365%)

The Payton I admit having failed to track. Only that I want one! I had a PSA 8 in my basket at 4SQ just after Xmas 2019 at $325. Didn't buy and it was gone the next day. Grrrr. I know I'm over $1k now. I will bow to your having followed it more than I.

[Brent72]

Originally Posted by Willikn

The Star Co. owner selling tons of "back door" originals via auction in the 90's is not urban legend.

In case these haven't already been posted:

https://allvintagecards.com/star-bas...rds-interview/

https://allvintagecards.com/fake-star-jordan-xrc-101/

[KB81]

Love how jacked up this is but still got a 9 centering.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-...AAAOSwqCteJMfX

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by Brent72

In case these haven't already been posted:

https://allvintagecards.com/star-bas...rds-interview/

https://allvintagecards.com/fake-star-jordan-xrc-101/

Steve doesn't mention the Schonko auction. Cardboard gold does. BGS even put "Schonko Collection" on the back of some early slabs. None of this means a thing today. You buy today, you are buying long after the market adjusted to all of that. You bought in 1989, man did you get the screw. The only reason I bring it up is people ask why these cards aren't so much more than Fleer #57. They were, even #117 was. Then.. I'm just saying.

I promise to shut up about it.

[Willikn]

Originally Posted by KB81

Love how jacked up this is but still got a 9 centering.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-...AAAOSwqCteJMfX

Ha! It got a 4 for edges. It doesn't even have edges.

[Garrison8]

Is there any line of thinking that counterfeits will be so indistinguishable on older cards some day, that slabs that predate a certain date in the future, will be at a premium? I’m sure this has been discussed in the past, but because it has been a while since I’ve been in the hobby, I was wondering.

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by Willikn

I have 9s so haven't tracked the others.

81 Montana from $600 to $2,000 (330%)
86 Rice from $600 to $2,200 (365%)

86 MJ 8 from $3,000 to $11,000 (365%)

The Payton I admit having failed to track. Only that I want one! I had a PSA 8 in my basket at 4SQ just after Xmas 2019 at $325. Didn't buy and it was gone the next day. Grrrr. I know I'm over $1k now. I will bow to your having followed it more than I.

Originally Posted by vintg

no sir.

(I have 4 payton rookies I bought in jan-mar of this yr.)

all have done very well and doubled in value.

psa 8's have basically doubled. +/- $500 to plus or - $1,000
I looked at 9's and 10's too, BUT, 8 has the most DATA POINTS/ SALES

I also have a Montana 7 and 5 (looks a lot nicer, LOL) highly, highly doubt
that's the case their too.

This is true, and by no means is the phenomenon limited to just the Jordan (or any of these three cards for that matter). But the rice is a great example to look to. Another high population card of a highly collected athlete (relative to his sport). I want to say back in Aug/Sep there were threads about "what is going on with the 1986 Topps Rice". PSA 9 copies were hitting north of $4000, some maybe even as high as $4500?

Now you can find them between $2k-$2.5k? So yes, if you bought the card at $600 your winning either way. What about those who bought at the peak? It's the same story. The card gets hot, they shoot up, listings "disappear" which makes it seem tougher to find, and then they start to trickle out more and more, and it becomes near impossible to keep the floor above the last sales.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Garrison8

Is there any line of thinking that counterfeits will be so indistinguishable on older cards some day, that slabs that predate a certain date in the future, will be at a premium? I’m sure this has been discussed in the past, but because it has been a while since I’ve been in the hobby, I was wondering.

Zero chance.

Counterfeits will never be good enough.