Panini vs Fanatics suit

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by Fenway55

That's not a valid defense against monopolistic practices. If Fanatics is breaking the law, then they are breaking the law. They don't get to claim "well this is just a hobby and we don't force anyone to buy anything so we can break whatever laws we want."

I guess

[LondonGames]

Originally Posted by Fenway55

You've literally added nothing to this thread other than to say "no you're wrong!! and he's wrong!!!! and they're wrong!!!"

Funniest post so far indeed.

You're quite literally just repeating the same thing over and over about the judge, and how you read the case and that others haven't. There is actually zero substance to anything you've written after the original post you made with your opinion.

What you're saying I'm doing is factually what you're doing.

Your opinion is dully noted. You don't need to post the same thing over and over and over and tell people they are wrong and need to read the case. It would be however nice if when people point out things to you that you clearly don't get, if you would accept it with some sort of grace instead of grandstanding. But as you continually act in bad faith, I'm not holding my breath.

[marinocollector]

Originally Posted by rms13

Panini has been been pretty firm that they aren't going to sell the business to Fanatics. I also doubt Fanatics would have any interest at this point. They already have the printers and their employees. The IP of the Panini brands don't have any value in my opinion. Topps has dozens of sets and a lot of them already overlap with what Panini makes. Panini and Donruss brands didn't mean much in football or basketball before they got the license and I think they will all be forgotten pretty quickly when they go away.

That’s rather bold. Topps was so hated in basketball they had to combine it with Chrome to sell it. Prizm is the most popular brand ever and Panini has done more to create brands than any manufacturer before it. Fanatics absolutely wants paninis IP.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by marinocollector

That’s rather bold. Topps was so hated in basketball they had to combine it with Chrome to sell it. Prizm is the most popular brand ever and Panini has done more to create brands than any manufacturer before it. Fanatics absolutely wants paninis IP.

I respectfully doubt it.

[mossoholic]

Am I the only one that thinks it's in Fanatics best interest for the licenses not to be exclusive? They paid for them at the tippy top of the market. They already have most of the best players either under exclusive contracts or they are signing for both companies. Wouldn't Fanatics be better off if they didn't have to pay the agreements they made, and any company can print? On top of that if this judgment were to come down this year, Fanatics could start printing licensed football a year early.

[DaveTaplin]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

nobody is forcing people to buy products. That is where this case gets thrown out imo.

If you use the gambling argument then people are being forced to by their addiction.

[sethc1020]

Originally Posted by marinocollector

That’s rather bold. Topps was so hated in basketball they had to combine it with Chrome to sell it. Prizm is the most popular brand ever and Panini has done more to create brands than any manufacturer before it. Fanatics absolutely wants paninis IP.

Prizm is trash, people only latched on to it because it was the closest thing Panini had to Topps Chrome after they took over. Thats what made it so popular, not the other way around, the Covid boom only inflated the popularity.

[jlzinck]

Originally Posted by Fenway55

+1 +1 +1

In fact, after reading the full MTD ruling, my current fear is that Fanatics will settle and/or buy Panini out. If that happens, and it is a very plausible scenario, then we all lose.

We've already lost

[bojesphob]

Originally Posted by sethc1020

Prizm is trash, people only latched on to it because it was the closest thing Panini had to Topps Chrome after they took over. Thats what made it so popular, not the other way around, the Covid boom only inflated the popularity.

Chrome was trash the last several years that it was being produced, so what makes it any better?

And saying that people latched on to it only because Chrome was gone ignores that Prizm came out in 2012, and of the two products, Prizm was far better (for vets at least) in design. Not having on card autos hurt it some, but the quality overall was better as well. 2013 for Prizm wasn't good (they overdid the parallels and the design was severely lacking compared to 2012). 2014 Prizm reduced the number of parallels and had a fantastic design. 2014 Chrome was underwhelming in comparison. Those are the only true comparisons we can make between the two, as they were out at the same time. Chrome was king until Prizm came out, then was dethroned, and that started before Topps stopped making Chrome.

Recently, the Prizm stuff suffers from what Chrome suffered from in 2015 - far too many cards with a bunch of variations and overproduction to make up for the future loss of the license. Add in taking hobby boxes that in 2014 originally sold for 30 dollars and having them now be over 200 makes that worse. Topps sees what Panini has been able to do with watering down the product and increasing profits, and they'll be doing the same again. This situation is basically the Madden Football situation for cards - Panini now, and Topps when they get the exclusive license, gives them full reign to make the product as terrible as the market will allow, charging maximum price for it, and having no recourse for consumers. Competition is a good thing, as it drives the companies to make the best product for the best price, otherwise their sales suffer. Having Chrome and Prizm competing for sales would make both products better, only having one makes either one what Prizm is now.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by Fenway55

Of course it does. This isn't college. See below....
Unlike college, the NFL players are unionized. Each manufacturer would be able to make a deal with the Union, so we wouldn't see Jayden Daniels only in Panini or Caleb Williams only in Topps. Every player's NIL would be open to all companies via the Union contract.

The above could potentially happen as far as autographs were concerned but it didn't 20 years ago, so I don't know why you're so certain it would dominate the industry in our hypothetical future.

I was obviously talking about autograph deals. And yes there is reason to believe it would be problematic because unlike 20 years ago, it IS already a problem. It's a problem that some of the best rookies of the past few seasons have zero Panini autographs even though Panini is the only one making licensed stuff at the moment. You have Wemby non-auto licensed rookie cards, and Wemby autograph unlicensed rookie cards. We will never see a Victor Wembanyama rookie autograph in a Spurs uniform.

So I absolutely think there will be incentives for these companies to continue competing for exclusive deals. The funny thing about competition is that the end goal is often monopoly. If courts blow this up, the competition to become a monopoly just starts all over again. Someone will eventually become the WWE and buy the competition. I wish it would happen now and Fanatics just buys UD and Panini and we end it all right here.

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by DaveTaplin

If you use the gambling argument then people are being forced to by their addiction.

you can't sue an alcohol company because you're an addict

that argument makes zero sense

[rms13]

Originally Posted by bojesphob

Chrome was trash the last several years that it was being produced, so what makes it any better?

And saying that people latched on to it only because Chrome was gone ignores that Prizm came out in 2012, and of the two products, Prizm was far better (for vets at least) in design. Not having on card autos hurt it some, but the quality overall was better as well. 2013 for Prizm wasn't good (they overdid the parallels and the design was severely lacking compared to 2012). 2014 Prizm reduced the number of parallels and had a fantastic design. 2014 Chrome was underwhelming in comparison. Those are the only true comparisons we can make between the two, as they were out at the same time. Chrome was king until Prizm came out, then was dethroned, and that started before Topps stopped making Chrome.

Recently, the Prizm stuff suffers from what Chrome suffered from in 2015 - far too many cards with a bunch of variations and overproduction to make up for the future loss of the license. Add in taking hobby boxes that in 2014 originally sold for 30 dollars and having them now be over 200 makes that worse. Topps sees what Panini has been able to do with watering down the product and increasing profits, and they'll be doing the same again. This situation is basically the Madden Football situation for cards - Panini now, and Topps when they get the exclusive license, gives them full reign to make the product as terrible as the market will allow, charging maximum price for it, and having no recourse for consumers. Competition is a good thing, as it drives the companies to make the best product for the best price, otherwise their sales suffer. Having Chrome and Prizm competing for sales would make both products better, only having one makes either one what Prizm is now.

How is that any different then Panini having the exclusive license? Your argument makes no sense. It's bad because Topps will have exclusive but it was fine when Panini had exclusive. Just wait until you get MVP buy backs and you are getting $20 credit at your LCS for $0.25 base cards.

[Seahawks fan]

I just love how nowhere in any of these lawsuits/league discussions/company discussions/etc...are any discussions about the consumer's wants. It's literally just pump out the most garbage at the most inflated price with the worst quality control then toss in exclusive player rights to screw the consumer into any chance at getting a nice licensed card.
0 innovation, hardly any if any game used, still have redemptions, still no box toppers, very little oncard autos, etc. Meanwhile the smaller companies can produce oncard autos and Game used mem.

When all 3 subjects involved NFLPA/Fanatics/Panini only care about money and nothing else. There is 0 hope in this case and that has been proven from all of their actions for many years now.

[bojesphob]

Originally Posted by rms13

How is that any different then Panini having the exclusive license? Your argument makes no sense. It's bad because Topps will have exclusive but it was fine when Panini had exclusive. Just wait until you get MVP buy backs and you are getting $20 credit at your LCS for $0.25 base cards.

Where did I say that I felt that Panini having an exclusive was fine? I said that competition is what makes products better, and is the best thing for consumers. Panini having exclusive was bad for consumers (ie, collectors), just like Topps having the exclusive will be. I'll admit, I probably could have worded what I said better, and I probably shouldn't have had two different lines of thought, but did you even read what I wrote beyond the first sentence?

[rms13]

Originally Posted by Seahawks fan

I just love how nowhere in any of these lawsuits/league discussions/company discussions/etc...are any discussions about the consumer's wants. It's literally just pump out the most garbage at the most inflated price with the worst quality control then toss in exclusive player rights to screw the consumer into any chance at getting a nice licensed card.
0 innovation, hardly any if any game used, still have redemptions, still no box toppers, very little oncard autos, etc. Meanwhile the smaller companies can produce oncard autos and Game used mem.

When all 3 subjects involved NFLPA/Fanatics/Panini only care about money and nothing else. There is 0 hope in this case and that has been proven from all of their actions for many years now.

Topps has has plenty of box toppers and on card autos. They have plenty of game used memorabilia as well. Fanatics doesn't have a monopoly on game used items but they do have exclusives with a lot of individual players. They do have exclusive deals with MLB to produce and sell game used items like the rookie debut patches and I'm sure they'll bring that to NFL and NBA.

But anyone that is hoping any part of the hobby goes back to where it was 10-20 years ago will probably be disappointed.

[CapMarvelous]

Originally Posted by bojesphob

And saying that people latched on to it only because Chrome was gone ignores that Prizm came out in 2012, and of the two products, Prizm was far better (for vets at least) in design. Not having on card autos hurt it some, but the quality overall was better as well. 2013 for Prizm wasn't good (they overdid the parallels and the design was severely lacking compared to 2012). 2014 Prizm reduced the number of parallels and had a fantastic design. 2014 Chrome was underwhelming in comparison. Those are the only true comparisons we can make between the two, as they were out at the same time. Chrome was king until Prizm came out, then was dethroned, and that started before Topps stopped making Chrome.

Prizm was not popular during those early years and the hobby, for the most part, panned the overall look and feel of those cards. The prices reflected demand at the time because chrome was still king.

Prizm football really only took off in popularity once it caught fire in basketball. Coincidentally, this was taking place 2019 right before the pandemic and boom.

At least this was my experience and observations at the time.

(This doesn’t take away from the fact that 2015 Topps flagship/chrome were the ugliest cards my eyes have ever seen)

[bojesphob]

Originally Posted by CapMarvelous

Prizm was not popular during those early years and the hobby, for the most part, panned the overall look and feel of those cards. The prices reflected demand at the time because chrome was still king.

Prizm football really only took off in popularity once it caught fire in basketball. Coincidentally, this was taking place 2019 right before the pandemic and boom.

At least this was my experience and observations at the time.

(This doesn’t take away from the fact that 2015 Topps flagship/chrome were the ugliest cards my eyes have ever seen)

To be fair, no product in 2012-2015 were really all that hot in football at the time. I had few issues buying rare Packers stuff for any product back then, aside from superfractors for Chrome, but that's only because they never showed up for sale. I bet if you went through the forum here you'd find where we were discussing how cheap collecting football was in comparison to basketball. I bought a LOT of Prizm in 2012-2014, and while it wasn't "hot" like basketball was, it sold as well as Chrome did. I will admit, though, that at the time Panini's collation SUCKED. I mean ROYALLY SUCKED. That didn't stop me from opening 8 cases of Hobby and Jumbo, dozens of blasters, at least 50 of the RWB rack packs, and get into over 50 case breaks of it. I think I opened a whopping total of 2 boxers of Chrome between 12 and 14. But, again, you are right that Chrome still had a massive following because of it's history, but Topps killed that mystique starting in 2013.

All that said, though, had Panini not gotten the exclusive, and Topps would have had the ability to really compete with Chrome after Prizm came out, how much better off would 2013-2015 Chrome have been? I tend to think that we could have had some really cool stuff had they actually had to continue competing against each other instead of overproducing stuff that was the only game in town. That's why I stopped actively collecting back around 2017, as the bloat, both in crap content and prices, started to take over with Topps out of the marketplace.

[LondonGames]

Originally Posted by bojesphob

Chrome was trash the last several years that it was being produced, so what makes it any better?

And saying that people latched on to it only because Chrome was gone ignores that Prizm came out in 2012, and of the two products, Prizm was far better (for vets at least) in design. Not having on card autos hurt it some, but the quality overall was better as well. 2013 for Prizm wasn't good (they overdid the parallels and the design was severely lacking compared to 2012). 2014 Prizm reduced the number of parallels and had a fantastic design. 2014 Chrome was underwhelming in comparison. Those are the only true comparisons we can make between the two, as they were out at the same time. Chrome was king until Prizm came out, then was dethroned, and that started before Topps stopped making Chrome.

Recently, the Prizm stuff suffers from what Chrome suffered from in 2015 - far too many cards with a bunch of variations and overproduction to make up for the future loss of the license. Add in taking hobby boxes that in 2014 originally sold for 30 dollars and having them now be over 200 makes that worse. Topps sees what Panini has been able to do with watering down the product and increasing profits, and they'll be doing the same again. This situation is basically the Madden Football situation for cards - Panini now, and Topps when they get the exclusive license, gives them full reign to make the product as terrible as the market will allow, charging maximum price for it, and having no recourse for consumers. Competition is a good thing, as it drives the companies to make the best product for the best price, otherwise their sales suffer. Having Chrome and Prizm competing for sales would make both products better, only having one makes either one what Prizm is now.

There is so much re-writing of history here.

2012 products for starters were extremely hot. Luck & RGIII carried 2012 Topps Chrome which was even better than 2011 which sold incredible with Newton & Cap at the time.

In comparison 2012 Prizm sold for a lot less than Chrome. I don't have the numbers infront of me but I'm pretty sure Chrome base RCs were around 5x as valuable, and the parallels were similarly weighted.

2014 was the same, but for different reasons. 2014 Prizm was not sought after to say the least and sold for way less, while 2014 Topps Chrome was great aside from the fact that Topps overprinted it and made the top hits nearly impossible to get. That release basically killed Topps Chrome, with 2015 not being that much better, and collectors still had a very sour taste in their mouth.

So the context for 2014/2015 Topps Chrome was this. No one at the time was talking about how Prizm designs were better, so this is all just a fabrication on your part. Maybe now you look back with fondness, but this was not the case. The same can be said for the Basketball counterparts, as even 2015-16 Prizm Basketball didn't sell until the Silver RC craze started about a year following the release, with the push of them being called the new Chrome.

Topps Chrome did not suffer from what Prizm is suffering from now. That's just factually incorrect. While Prizm is certainly watered down with overproduction and tons of parallels etc, that is distinctively what Topps Chrome did NOT do in 2014. They didn't make more parallels in 2014, they just printed a ton and made the better cards harder to hit than any product in modern card history (relative to what things had been).

Prizm for sure did not "dethrone" Chrome ever. It was vacated when Chrome exited. The two were never in the same stratosphere.

[Seahawks fan]

Originally Posted by rms13

Topps has has plenty of box toppers and on card autos. They have plenty of game used memorabilia as well.
.

Has Fanatics Topps had a Game used NFL card yet? I kn0w no Box Toppers but the night is young. I do however see nice clean modern jerseys/patches for vets Like LT and even a player worn Jason Sehorn patch card (that would have cost them like $200-500 for that gamer). So far it looks ugly with the prices they are charging for player worn and no license. $50 for a hideous pack of Finest is insane. Once they get the License it will probably go up.

[LondonGames]

Originally Posted by bojesphob

To be fair, no product in 2012-2015 were really all that hot in football at the time. I had few issues buying rare Packers stuff for any product back then, aside from superfractors for Chrome, but that's only because they never showed up for sale. I bet if you went through the forum here you'd find where we were discussing how cheap collecting football was in comparison to basketball. I bought a LOT of Prizm in 2012-2014, and while it wasn't "hot" like basketball was, it sold as well as Chrome did. I will admit, though, that at the time Panini's collation SUCKED. I mean ROYALLY SUCKED. That didn't stop me from opening 8 cases of Hobby and Jumbo, dozens of blasters, at least 50 of the RWB rack packs, and get into over 50 case breaks of it. I think I opened a whopping total of 2 boxers of Chrome between 12 and 14. But, again, you are right that Chrome still had a massive following because of it's history, but Topps killed that mystique starting in 2013.

All that said, though, had Panini not gotten the exclusive, and Topps would have had the ability to really compete with Chrome after Prizm came out, how much better off would 2013-2015 Chrome have been? I tend to think that we could have had some really cool stuff had they actually had to continue competing against each other instead of overproducing stuff that was the only game in town. That's why I stopped actively collecting back around 2017, as the bloat, both in crap content and prices, started to take over with Topps out of the marketplace.

2012 Topps Chrome was on fire.... 2012 NT and Contenders shot through the roof in cost nearly immediately and never looked back... 2014 National Treasures FB was on fire... there were quite a few products that were extremely hot. There have been issues with draft classes and years (2013 was somewhat difficult for NFL, and 2015 was rough too). But NT for all of these years did just fine, as did Contenders etc. Saying they weren't on fire would just be silly.

In fact, 2014 was such a good year and so widely anticipated that Topps printed Chrome to the ridiculous amount that it did. Chrome at the time was a no brainer that was going to go up in cost no matter what. That is the only major product from those years that can be pointed to that was simply a massive failure (in Football). The next closest was Prizm. Prizm was viewed as a fake Chrome and was really cheap (for the most part) outside of 14-15 Prizm Basketball which was incredible, mostly due to how easy it was to hit the top parallels and Ben Simmons. 2015-16 Prizm Basketball was actually being purchased for a couple hundred dollars per case, and NastyBreaks and PlatinumCards were taking on tons of it to push it to customers, maybe more than any product in group break history. Panini literally couldn't move any of it and made people take multiple cases to be allocated NT.

All to say, I'm not sure what is meant by "no products were really all that hot" in 2012-2015. Nothing could be further from the truth. Though also to be clear, products like 2014 Select, 2013 Prestige/Momentum/etc etc, and tons of other Panini products simply did not sell, mostly due to how much they cost and how horrible the hits were relative to the cost. But this also happened in all Basketball products too including 2013-14 Select which is now extremely expensive.

[Yanks23]

dumb ? does this mean that panini can delay the license transfer to fanatics until lawsuit is done or can the both make products or just fanatics? im not up to date on how this works.

[bojesphob]

Originally Posted by LondonGames

2012 Topps Chrome was on fire.... 2012 NT and Contenders shot through the roof in cost nearly immediately and never looked back... 2014 National Treasures FB was on fire... there were quite a few products that were extremely hot. There have been issues with draft classes and years (2013 was somewhat difficult for NFL, and 2015 was rough too). But NT for all of these years did just fine, as did Contenders etc. Saying they weren't on fire would just be silly.

In fact, 2014 was such a good year and so widely anticipated that Topps printed Chrome to the ridiculous amount that it did. Chrome at the time was a no brainer that was going to go up in cost no matter what. That is the only major product from those years that can be pointed to that was simply a massive failure (in Football). The next closest was Prizm. Prizm was viewed as a fake Chrome and was really cheap (for the most part) outside of 14-15 Prizm Basketball which was incredible, mostly due to how easy it was to hit the top parallels and Ben Simmons. 2015-16 Prizm Basketball was actually being purchased for a couple hundred dollars per case, and NastyBreaks and PlatinumCards were taking on tons of it to push it to customers, maybe more than any product in group break history. Panini literally couldn't move any of it and made people take multiple cases to be allocated NT.

All to say, I'm not sure what is meant by "no products were really all that hot" in 2012-2015. Nothing could be further from the truth. Though also to be clear, products like 2014 Select, 2013 Prestige/Momentum/etc etc, and tons of other Panini products simply did not sell, mostly due to how much they cost and how horrible the hits were relative to the cost. But this also happened in all Basketball products too including 2013-14 Select which is now extremely expensive.

At the time, Chrome was more sought after, I didn't say otherwise, but Prizm, just in sheer numbers for values since, show that Chrome doesn't have the luster that it used to have. Isn't long term value a lot better indicator of which product was better? Tom Brady is the king of value in both of those sets from 2012, I think we can agree on that, right? Superfractor 2012 Tom Brady sold in 2022 for 66,000. 6 months later, it sold for only 23,000. 8 months after that, a gold Prizm (not the Finite) from 2012 for Brady sold for 156,000. I sold a 2012 Aaron Rodgers Green Prizm PSA 10 for 1000 bucks at the end of last year, and a PSA 2012 Gold Chrome /50 Rodgers PSA 10 sold 4 months before that 400, and the Gold is far more rare. You might not like Prizm from that time, and that's ok, but it's far better remembered than Chrome after 2011. Heck, the 2014 Jordy Nelson Superfractor last sold in 2023 for 113 bucks, and I can guarantee you the 2014 Finite I have of his would have sold for more than that if I had sold it then. I mean, Jordy's 2013 Finite sold last month for 4200, and his super 08 auto is sitting unsold at the asking price of 3500. Seems to me that the market has determined that Chrome isn't king from that time frame, but what do I know.

That's not really the point of what I was trying to make, though. My entire point was that 2015 Chrome wouldn't have been the crapfest that it was had Topps been continuing past that year. They had given up at that point. Prizm would have been better from 2015+ as they'd have to compete with Topps still. Would I have liked to have seen better sets for Prizm after 2014? Yeah. Would I liked to have collected Chrome after 2014 that was good? Yeah. Has Prizm been terrible the last several years? Yep. Will Chrome be as good as it was pre-2014? We'll see, but I wouldn't hold my breath hoping for it.

[rmw10]

Originally Posted by Yanks23

dumb ? does this mean that panini can delay the license transfer to fanatics until lawsuit is done or can the both make products or just fanatics? im not up to date on how this works.

It's likely this case stretches out well beyond the cutover date. Fanatics will take over in that time and Panini's only hope of getting back in is winning. That's why I have my doubts this actually makes it to a full-fledged trial. Panini is no small company by any means, but Fanatics is still 10x them. My guess is Panini rides this out until the cutover date, they take a settlement, disband their American business, and move all of production to Japan and Italy as they've already had to do to some extent.

Edit to add: Panini's deals expire at that point. They couldn't make cards at that point either way unless the leagues and PAs were willing to go back to the table. Would likely take them winning a case entirely for any of those entities to be willing to do that.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by Seahawks fan

Has Fanatics Topps had a Game used NFL card yet? I kn0w no Box Toppers but the night is young. I do however see nice clean modern jerseys/patches for vets Like LT and even a player worn Jason Sehorn patch card (that would have cost them like $200-500 for that gamer). So far it looks ugly with the prices they are charging for player worn and no license. $50 for a hideous pack of Finest is insane. Once they get the License it will probably go up.

They have plenty of box topper and game used for baseball. I'm sure they'll have the same things for NFL and NBA once they ahe the licenses. All wax is overpriced.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by bojesphob

At the time, Chrome was more sought after, I didn't say otherwise, but Prizm, just in sheer numbers for values since, show that Chrome doesn't have the luster that it used to have. Isn't long term value a lot better indicator of which product was better? Tom Brady is the king of value in both of those sets from 2012, I think we can agree on that, right? Superfractor 2012 Tom Brady sold in 2022 for 66,000. 6 months later, it sold for only 23,000. 8 months after that, a gold Prizm (not the Finite) from 2012 for Brady sold for 156,000. I sold a 2012 Aaron Rodgers Green Prizm PSA 10 for 1000 bucks at the end of last year, and a PSA 2012 Gold Chrome /50 Rodgers PSA 10 sold 4 months before that 400, and the Gold is far more rare. You might not like Prizm from that time, and that's ok, but it's far better remembered than Chrome after 2011. Heck, the 2014 Jordy Nelson Superfractor last sold in 2023 for 113 bucks, and I can guarantee you the 2014 Finite I have of his would have sold for more than that if I had sold it then. I mean, Jordy's 2013 Finite sold last month for 4200, and his super 08 auto is sitting unsold at the asking price of 3500. Seems to me that the market has determined that Chrome isn't king from that time frame, but what do I know.

That's not really the point of what I was trying to make, though. My entire point was that 2015 Chrome wouldn't have been the crapfest that it was had Topps been continuing past that year. They had given up at that point. Prizm would have been better from 2015+ as they'd have to compete with Topps still. Would I have liked to have seen better sets for Prizm after 2014? Yeah. Would I liked to have collected Chrome after 2014 that was good? Yeah. Has Prizm been terrible the last several years? Yep. Will Chrome be as good as it was pre-2014? We'll see, but I wouldn't hold my breath hoping for it.

Prices are down across the board for everything. Everybody is just chasing the next rookie these days.