Future National sites

[Donald1942]

It all comes down to money which is fine.its not an
Airport problem to and from. 2006 anaheim was crazy
And no Airport next door. They keep doing AC and I fly
Into Philly and drive up. The difference is that all the big dealers will be at these shows and won't be at a west coast national. Nothing against people setting up at the Burbank show but it's more like groundhog day and it plays over and over again with same people and cards.its a gigantic trade night all day. If it's not broke don't fix it

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

Is that supposed to be compelling?

Other industries can hold events (trade shows, media events, well attended major sporting events) up and down the West Coast but the cardboard geniuses can't due to airport logistics. Got it.

Do those shows usually have 5 days of autograph guests flying in and out of those airports from all over the country every day of the show to make their timed appearances at the show?

[lambeauleap87]

I feel like this conversation happens every year, but the reasons it doesn't leave the Chicago/Cleveland/AC rotation remain the same.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

Is that supposed to be compelling?

Other industries can hold events (trade shows, media events, well attended major sporting events) up and down the West Coast but the cardboard geniuses can't due to airport logistics. Got it.

Card shows are entirely different in that you have a ton of exhibitors bringing in a lot of merchandise that won't travel easily by plane. We're not talking about small businesses with employees that normally attend trade events. The National is filled with one person sellers without the budget or inclination for air travel.

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Do those shows usually have 5 days of autograph guests flying in and out of those airports from all over the country every day of the show to make their timed appearances at the show?

Autograph guests? I thought it was dealers having to bring all of their inventory that was the reason? ComicCon doesn't have autograph guests? What about Star Wars in Anaheim? Hollywood? Music? Awards shows? Super Bowl? NCAA Football title game? Nobody has to make scheduled appearances at these events?

How do they do it without any reliable transportation or airports near a convention center West of Chicago or Cleveland. Hell, Disneyland isn't close to the airport but somehow people figure it out.

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

Card shows are entirely different in that you have a ton of exhibitors bringing in a lot of merchandise that won't travel easily by plane. We're not talking about small businesses with employees that normally attend trade events. The National is filled with one person sellers without the budget or inclination for air travel.

What about trade shows where vendors move 100,000 lbs pieces of equipment across the country for display/sale? Is moving boxes of cards more difficult?

On the air travel bit -- so it's cool to exclude one person sellers without the budget or inclination for air travel from the West Coast, but we should definitely make sure not to exclude the same people from the East Coast. Is that really the argument?

It sounds more like laziness than any actual hurdles to a West Coast show.

Originally Posted by solt0131

The group that is running the National from here on out is on the East Coast.

This is definitely the reason and it's totally fine -- East Coast Bias is a thing.

There are more traditional dealers/participants from the East Coast, so makes sense.

Just wish everyone would save the stupid excuses and disqualifying locations based on made-up and false criteria.

[Bigjigglies]

[QUOTE=tribefan;18925295]People will be shocked when they see how the IX center floor has been partitioned. The main room is probably less than half the original size.
Yes, most people do not realize that they cut the I-X center in half, removed the ferris wheel. It is now basically the same size as the Stephens Center in Chicago.

[Bigjigglies]

Most of the west coast is just to expensive when it comes to renting the facility.

Anaheim is ok on everything except scheduling. They will only book many years out (over 10 years out)

San Francisco way to much money to rent the facility.

San Diego, same as San Francisco

Portland and Seattle not enough floor space.

Las Vegas they say has no collectors base. I hate that argument because I think most people are willing to go there. Their is also concern of dealers losing all of their money but I would say that is a personal issue and nothing to do with the show.

[regularp]

We need further explanation as to why Vegas is out of the question when these bozos on the committee considered Phoenix, Anaheim and SF.

[Grid]

Its the same arguments every year. It comes down to this.

Dealers, Corporate Partners, players that do appearances, buyers ETC all prefer it in Chicago and the IX in Cleveland. Easy to get to, centrally located and the expenses are not bad (travel, rooms, parking, public transit, convention space cost ETC)

Atlantic City is only in the mix, because they PAY to have the show hosted there. The money comes out of the casinos, who put it into a fund and it gets spent by the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority.

It is a bribe to lure major shows into the area. Zero chance the promoters are going to give that up. Trust me, outside of the major dealers along the East Coast. No one wants the show there. But until the money stops, it will continue to be.

This is where nearly everyone lives. And its a long ways away from Las Vegas and California. Sorry, but a West Coast show wont happen. Not unless those city start the bribes as well.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

What about trade shows where vendors move 100,000 lbs pieces of equipment across the country for display/sale? Is moving boxes of cards more difficult?

On the air travel bit -- so it's cool to exclude one person sellers without the budget or inclination for air travel from the West Coast, but we should definitely make sure not to exclude the same people from the East Coast. Is that really the argument?

It sounds more like laziness than any actual hurdles to a West Coast show.

Merchandise that needs to stay sealed isn't a good candidate for passenger flights. Sellers bringing a lot of boxes by air would need to ship with a cargo carrier or risk getting their wax opened. If it's just slabs or loose cards, there's still the chance of theft from checked bags. Someone at the airport once stole a t-shirt from my box... yeah a freaking t-shirt so getting sellers on board for a west coast show would be a long shot.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

When there's a west coast location that has an airport with decent public transit, convention center convenient to the airport, and nonstop flights even from the middle of nowhere, then maybe the organizers will reconsider. There just isn't a single venue anywhere in the west that fits the bill.

Seattle has all of the above.

Direct light rail from the airport to the newly expanded convention center, which is 15-20 minute drive from the airport.

Non-stop flights to just about everywhere on either Alaska or Delta.

Plenty of hotels and restaurants.

But we're too far away from the rest of the country....

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

Merchandise that needs to stay sealed isn't a good candidate for passenger flights. Sellers bringing a lot of boxes by air would need to ship with a cargo carrier or risk getting their wax opened. If it's just slabs or loose cards, there's still the chance of theft from checked bags. Someone at the airport once stole a t-shirt from my box... yeah a freaking t-shirt so getting sellers on board for a west coast show would be a long shot.

God forbid they book freight with insurance to ship items they sell to a venue...almost like a vendor.

Many of these anti-West Coast arguments amount to burdening the weekend warrior trying to sell cards out of his garage and not report taxes. Cool, but not impressive enough to dictate the location of shows to come.

The East Coast bias and cost are two very legitimate reasons -- everything else about airports and lack of travel options is laughable.

[Bigjigglies]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Seattle has all of the above.

Direct light rail from the airport to the newly expanded convention center, which is 15-20 minute drive from the airport.

Non-stop flights to just about everywhere on either Alaska or Delta.

Plenty of hotels and restaurants.

But we're too far away from the rest of the country....

You forgot to include that the convention center only has 205,700 square feet of exhibit space. WAY UNDER THE NSCC REQUIREMENTS

[asianassassin24]

Being in San Diego, I would love the national to come to San Diego one time, but the national is the weekend after Comic Con. Unless the national moves weekends, San Diego will never be an option unless Comic Con leaves.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

God forbid they book freight with insurance to ship items they sell to a venue...almost like a vendor.

Many of these anti-West Coast arguments amount to burdening the weekend warrior trying to sell cards out of his garage and not report taxes. Cool, but not impressive enough to dictate the location of shows to come.

The East Coast bias and cost are two very legitimate reasons -- everything else about airports and lack of travel options is laughable.

But that's just it... the National is full of hobby sellers. If you look at the dealer list, there's lots of guys under their own names so they don't even have a web store or even a dba.

The lack of a good airport is a tougher problem. Chicago is as big a hub as they get. Nothing west coast matches it especially distance to convention center. LAX for instance can be a nightmare just getting in and out of the airport.

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

But that's just it... the National is full of hobby sellers. If you look at the dealer list, there's lots of guys under their own names so they don't even have a web store or even a dba.

The lack of a good airport is a tougher problem. Chicago is as big a hub as they get. Nothing west coast matches it especially distance to convention center. LAX for instance can be a nightmare just getting in and out of the airport.

Hobby sellers from the West Coast need not apply...

...there are 4 airports within an hour of each other -- LAX, SNA, Long Beach, and Ontario.

Please act like you live here.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

Hobby sellers from the West Coast need not apply...

...there are 4 airports within an hour of each other -- LAX, SNA, Long Beach, and Ontario.

Please act like you live here.

SNA, LGB, ONT won't have nonstop flights from most regional airports. That's why Chicago is king in terms of airline hubs. Also the Stephens Center is tired and run down but it's a couple miles from the airport. Good luck getting from LAX to downtown in under an hour. As for Anaheim, expect to pay through the nose for hotels anywhere near Disney.

[SupermanBrandon]

Burbank was the hottest show West of Dallas 2 years ago. Now they're struggling to sell their tables. The "West Coast National" is dead in less than 24 months. But sure...the people running the National should totally do a West Coast show.

[bigdog2003]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Burbank was the hottest show West of Dallas 2 years ago. Now they're struggling to sell their tables. The "West Coast National" is dead in less than 24 months. But sure...the people running the National should totally do a West Coast show.

Even when the tables were "sold out", was it really a sell out or what's it a bunch of giving tables to influencers to appear bigger than it really was?

[packman80]

Just have it in Chicago every year. Centrally located in USA. Easy to get to from airport. Enough hotels. Easy drive for most dealers who want to avoid flying with large and expensive amount of cards they are bringing.

[thepilluh]

I must have missed when Cleveland became a major airport and when the city got mass transit. Not sure why everyone thinks Cleveland is such an awesome venue. Many of the arguments people throw out against West Coast locations apply to Cleveland.

[LVDan]

As LV continues to grow I could maybe envision a once off like 10-15 years from now if the economy is good. Mandalay Bay is a possibility. I think the fear of buyers losing their card money on the casino floor is a thing and yeah, late July is brutally hot. The card scene here is improving but still a far cry where it would need to be for it to have a shot. The city needs to prove it can draw consistently a mid range show with momentum for awhile before it would be seriously considered. Other than the 4 hour shot from LA there just aren’t enough human beings surrounding the area to assume worthwhile attendance unfortunately.
Selfishly I’d love to see it it in my time.

[mankey21]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

When there's a west coast location that has an airport with decent public transit, convention center convenient to the airport, and nonstop flights even from the middle of nowhere, then maybe the organizers will reconsider. There just isn't a single venue anywhere in the west that fits the bill.

Doesn't Las Vegas fill all of the requirements that you listed ?

[mankey21]

Originally Posted by LVDan

As LV continues to grow I could maybe envision a once off like 10-15 years from now if the economy is good. Mandalay Bay is a possibility. I think the fear of buyers losing their card money on the casino floor is a thing and yeah, late July is brutally hot. The card scene here is improving but still a far cry where it would need to be for it to have a shot. The city needs to prove it can draw consistently a mid range show with momentum for awhile before it would be seriously considered. Other than the 4 hour shot from LA there just aren’t enough human beings surrounding the area to assume worthwhile attendance unfortunately.
Selfishly I’d love to see it it in my time.

Other than LA ? Phoenix is the 5th Largest metro area in the Country and its not much more than 4 hours away.

[ThoseBackPages]

i'd be fine with Vegas