Best handles of all time

[WillC]

Originally Posted by Giannis34fan

My list from old school to new school:

Bob Cousy
Pistol Pete
Tiny Archibald
Isiah Thomas
Magic Johnson
Tim Hardaway Sr.
Allen Iverson
God Shamgod
Jason Williams
Jamal Crawford
Kyrie
Steph Curry

We can go further back and have Hank Luisetti and Bob Davies too. Two of the first to dribble behind the back and between the legs.

Can’t believe Earl Monroe hasn’t been mentioned. He had a spinning, fluid style that influenced the likes of Penny Hardaway.

Stephon Marbury is another that deserves a mention.

[WillC]

Originally Posted by harlem86

Kenny Anderson hasn't been mentioned.

Tiny Archibald, "Pearl" Washington had great game too.

Kenny Anderson is a great shout.

[kb 24]

Rod Hundley should be mentioned too

[theLUCKYshow]

Does it have to be NBA? What about the Professor?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[ninjacookies]

Haven't even heard of several names in this thread. Must be from like the 30's or 40's or something. I know most of the guys back then looked down at the ball while they daintily dribbled the ball up court, so going between the legs probably looked alien.

Just because someone was the originator doesn't mean they're the best of all time. Best of all time means their skillset stood the test of time and can excel in any generation.

It's like saying Spud Webb is the greatest dunker of all time. Sure, maybe for that one year he eeked out a slam dunk win, but there's no way he'd stand a chance against prime Jordan, VC, or even a Lavine.

[ilikenicecards]

Originally Posted by Giannis34fan

My list from old school to new school:

Bob Cousy
Pistol Pete
Tiny Archibald
Isiah Thomas
Magic Johnson
Tim Hardaway Sr.
Allen Iverson
God Shamgod
Jason Williams
Jamal Crawford
Kyrie
Steph Curry

Great List!!!!!!!

[TBarn291]

Kyrie and A.I. are interchangeable at 1 and 2 for me. After that J. Will/Magic/Crawford


I know I am biased but Kyrie is just absolutely mind blowing once he gets going. Best finisher currently playing imo.

[WillC]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Haven't even heard of several names in this thread. Must be from like the 30's or 40's or something. I know most of the guys back then looked down at the ball while they daintily dribbled the ball up court, so going between the legs probably looked alien.

Just because someone was the originator doesn't mean they're the best of all time. Best of all time means their skillset stood the test of time and can excel in any generation.

Sure, people like Bob Davies, Bob Cousy and Hank Luisetti didn't have half the skill of Kyrie Irving or Allen Iverson. However, they deserve a mention as they were pioneers in the same way that Bill Russell deserves a mention as one of the Greatest of All-Time even though we all know he didn't have half the talent of Anthony Davis, for example. It's all relative.

It's like saying Spud Webb is the greatest dunker of all time. Sure, maybe for that one year he eeked out a slam dunk win, but there's no way he'd stand a chance against prime Jordan, VC, or even a Lavine.

You do realise that Spud Webb won a dunk contest featuring prime Dominique Wilkins?

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by WillC

Sure, people like Bob Davies, Bob Cousy and Hank Luisetti didn't have half the skill of Kyrie Irving or Allen Iverson. However, they deserve a mention as they were pioneers in the same way that Bill Russell deserves a mention as one of the Greatest of All-Time even though we all know he didn't have half the talent of Anthony Davis, for example. It's all relative.

I get it. I guess it's how you interpret the question. This was strictly evaluating a single attribute though.

I don't think I could ever be convinced Cousy or Luisetti's handling skills could hold up against the best of this modern generation.

To contrast this, I'm absolutely certain Wilt's rebounding, Magic's passing, Jordan/Dr. J's dunking, and Bird/Reggie's shooting would dominate no matter what year you cite.

Spudd was the better man on that particular day. Nothing more. If anyone thinks he's the better dunker than Nique then they must be smoking some extremely potent strain.

[dherm360]

1984 NBA draft pick that played for the Bulls

Steve Colter

[WillC]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I get it. I guess it's how you interpret the question. This was strictly evaluating a single attribute though.

I don't think I could ever be convinced Cousy or Luisetti's handling skills could hold up against the best of this modern generation.

That's because the rules have changed. Kyrie Irving or Allen Iverson would be called for a travel every time they made a dribble if we used the rules of the 1950s, for example.

Cousy and Luisetti were the best ball handlers of their respective eras in the same way Irving and Iverson were the best in theirs.

You can be a Johnny-come-lately and only consider modern players or you can be respectful and curious enough to respect the game's history. I know which camp I'm in.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by WillC

That's because the rules have changed. Kyrie Irving or Allen Iverson would be called for a travel every time they made a dribble if we used the rules of the 1950s, for example.

Cousy and Luisetti were the best ball handlers of their respective eras in the same way Irving and Iverson were the best in theirs.

You can be a Johnny-come-lately and only consider modern players or you can be respectful and curious enough to respect the game's history. I know which camp I'm in.

I'm with you. If you don't acknowledge the pioneers, you're missing out on a huge part of the game. All current players learned their skillsets from previous generations. Simply said, if we didn't have the Cousy's from the 50s and 60s, we don't have the Earl Monroe's/Maravich's of the 70s, Magic/Isiah from the 80s, AI of the 90s, Nash in the 00s, or Steph/Kyrie now.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by WillC

That's because the rules have changed. Kyrie Irving or Allen Iverson would be called for a travel every time they made a dribble if we used the rules of the 1950s, for example.

Cousy and Luisetti were the best ball handlers of their respective eras in the same way Irving and Iverson were the best in theirs.

You can be a Johnny-come-lately and only consider modern players or you can be respectful and curious enough to respect the game's history. I know which camp I'm in.

So I was disrespectful or near sighted when I said Wilt/Russel's rebounding would be good in any era?

Got it.

And you just admitted yourself, Cousy was amongst the greatest 'of his era.' Strong caveat. The original question was greatest of all time. Not sure how a specific era equates to all-time, but I guess that's best left for a different discussion.

It has nothing to do with rules, either. Keep the rules constant and they'd still lose out drastically. Why? Because they're not hyper athletic speed freaks with ridiculous fast twitch like Kyrie and Ai.

I guess we can toss Naismith in the goat shooter debate. After all, he was the first one to put it in the basket.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

So I was disrespectful or near sighted when I said Wilt/Russel's rebounding would be good in any era?

Got it.

And you just admitted yourself, Cousy was amongst the greatest 'of his era.' Strong caveat. The original question was greatest of all time. Not sure how a specific era equates to all-time, but I guess that's best left for a different discussion.

It has nothing to do with rules, either. Keep the rules constant and they'd still lose out drastically. Why? Because they're not hyper athletic speed freaks with ridiculous fast twitch like Kyrie and Ai.

I guess we can toss Naismith in the goat shooter debate. After all, he was the first one to put it in the basket.

Obviously you can pick who you want, but the rules difference is a valid point. Cousy couldn't hang with the dribbling today, but Kyrie and AI couldn't play the way they did/do because rules didn't allow it back then. How good of ball handlers would they be if they turned it over every single time they touched the ball because they traveled and double dribbled?

You can pick your top ball handlers without saying past legends sucked

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

Obviously you can pick who you want, but the rules difference is a valid point. Cousy couldn't hang with the dribbling today, but Kyrie and AI couldn't play the way they did/do because rules didn't allow it back then. How good of ball handlers would they be if they turned it over every single time they touched the ball because they traveled and double dribbled?

I already said...switch back the rules and Kyrie and AI are still far superior. It's not that difficult. If they were forced to eliminate palming, they'd still be faster and more ellusive.

Same people saying Lebron would crumble if he played in the 80's lol. No. You adapt to your environment and conform to the rules. Sink or swim.

That's just the nostalgic romanticism talking.

I know for a fact Wilt could still dominate the boards no matter the era. Why? Because he was a physical and athletic marvel with olympic credentials.

[TRLakers32]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I get it. I guess it's how you interpret the question. This was strictly evaluating a single attribute though.

I don't think I could ever be convinced Cousy or Luisetti's handling skills could hold up against the best of this modern generation.

To contrast this, I'm absolutely certain Wilt's rebounding, Magic's passing, Jordan/Dr. J's dunking, and Bird/Reggie's shooting would dominate no matter what year you cite.

Spudd was the better man on that particular day. Nothing more. If anyone thinks he's the better dunker than Nique then they must be smoking some extremely potent strain.

When comparing people from different eras, there are a couple of things I take into consideration. First, a lot of what players do now wasn’t legal several decades ago so that would definitely make their style look different. Players carry and palm the ball all the time now. That’s ok because the game has evolved but to say older players couldn’t do it isn’t fair. I tend to give the pioneers of the game more credit for developing skills without seeing someone else do it first. Also, they weren’t full time basketball players like they are now. Now, saying that, I don’t think there are many players from the earlier years of the nba that could even play in the current nba, but they certainly belong in a discussion about the greatest to ever do it.

On Spud, I think he was the perfect guy for an exhibition dunk contest situation. However, the dunk contest requires very little actual basketball skill. I would love for an Olympic long jumper or high jumper to be in the dunk contest. When I think of the best dunkers ever, in-game dunking is what I put more emphasis on. So, spud = great dunk contest dunker, Dominique = one of the best dunkers of all time, Vince Carter = best combination dunker of all time.

[ninjacookies]

Big shot out to Archibald, Earl the Pearl, and Zeke though. Way ahead of their times...and would still school kids in 2019.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I already said...switch back the rules and Kyrie and AI are still far superior. It's not that difficult. If they were forced to eliminate palming, they'd still be faster and more ellusive.

Same people saying Lebron would crumble if he played in the 80's lol. No. You adapt to your environment and conform to the rules. Sink or swim.

That's just the nostalgic romanticism talking.

I know for a fact Wilt could still dominate the boards no matter the era. Why? Because he was a physical and athletic marvel with olympic credentials.

Lol ok bud. And just fwiw, most people that say lebron would crumble in the 80s is because he is mentally weak. Physically, he'd be just fine.

[TRLakers32]

Oops, took too long to post. Looks like I repeated some stuff that’s already been covered.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

Lol ok bud. And just fwiw, most people that say lebron would crumble in the 80s is because he is mentally weak. Physically, he'd be just fine.

How would the 80's be any different if he's mentally weak then? I thought this was all about hand checks and hard fouls? He panders to the refs now, because that's what everyone does in this era.

Or are we saying he's so emotionally fragile that the hits will add up and he'll crawl into the fetal?

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

How would the 80's be any different if he's mentally weak then? I thought this was all about hand checks and hard fouls? He panders to the refs now, because that's what everyone does in this era.

Or are we saying he's so emotionally fragile that the hits will add up and he'll crawl into the fetal?

I'm saying that even in this soft era, he has shut down several times in his career and looked like he wanted no part of the moment. Jason Terry got into his head and took him out of the Finals. You don't think the Bad Boys or the 80s Celtics would have intimidated him too a little? Lol

As I said, you can pick whoever you want. It's an opinion question. Just don't act like someone else that picks someone different is dumb.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

I'm saying that even in this soft era, he has shut down several times in his career and looked like he wanted no part of the moment. Jason Terry got into his head and took him out of the Finals. You don't think the Bad Boys or the 80s Celtics would have intimidated him too a little? Lol

Oh, I agree that he hasn't been the closer that he should have been for the majority of his career. But I don't think that's era dependent lol. He just never had the MJ/Kobe gene. Still an all-time great though.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Oh, I agree that he hasn't been the closer that he should have been for the majority of his career. But I don't think that's era dependent lol. He just never had the MJ/Kobe gene. Still an all-time great though.

Yes, obviously still an all-time great.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

I'm saying that even in this soft era, he has shut down several times in his career and looked like he wanted no part of the moment. Jason Terry got into his head and took him out of the Finals. You don't think the Bad Boys or the 80s Celtics would have intimidated him too a little? Lol

As I said, you can pick whoever you want. It's an opinion question. Just don't act like someone else that picks someone different is dumb.

When did I state they're dumb? Going a bit far there. Just said it's a matter of interpretation. That's fine. These debates will always come up in these discussions.

[n1nesports]

Arguing about which players would do better who played in different eras is as silly as those people who argue about which superhero would win in a fight.

It's all theoretical.

A guy like Wilt Chamberlain was from a different time, thing's have evolved greatly since then. At that time it couldn't get much better than him.

Today obviously if you got him in a time machine and dropped him into the NBA he wouldn't be half the player he was, so it's incomparable. You simply can't compare them, the competition is different, the athleticism is different, the rules are different. I think the only thing you can compare is free throw shooting, unless the distance has changed. Unguarded shooting is the only thing that remains the same.