Stadium Club Triumvirate Print Run???

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

Thanks everyone! Picked up the MJ Luminescent #T1B and a Illuminator #T9B. Still can't believe how affordable these cards are in comparison to other rare 90's Jordan's.

Thank you again to everyone for all the awesome feedback and support.

Is luminescent the second level? Thats the best looking #T1B

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Is luminescent the second level? Thats the best looking #T1B

Luminous - poverty level / wage slave

Luminescent - middle class, decent neighborhood, 2.5 kids, minivan for the wife, luxury sedan for commute to work, sports car for the weekends.

Illuminator - Lottery winner / owns at least 1 exotic car, multiple homes, knows a few celebrities

[Gem10collection]

It's the first level but the illuminator is the second. I wanted both versions and the first level illuminator doesn't have the refractor.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

It's the first level but the illuminator is the second. I wanted both versions and the first level illuminator doesn't have the refractor.

Looking at the pic, That’s what I thought! If I was a buyer, I literally would have purchased the same cards that you did.

Nice job!

[Gem10collection]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Looking at the pic, That’s what I thought! If I was a buyer, I literally would have purchased the same cards that you did.

Nice job!

Thanks man! I had great coaching

[AbraCalabro]

Just FYI guys, the Illuminator is the 3rd/high tier variant.

The order goes:

Luminous
Luminescent
Illuminator

For 97/98 Luminous is a flat foil card, Luminescent is the refractor and Illuminator is an acetate card.

That changes with series 2 and subsequent years' releases.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

Thanks man! I had great coaching

Show them off when they arrive.

For what it’s worth, I had the Illuminator series 1 and actually sold it when I saw the level 2. The rarest level ought to be the best looking! When it’s not, it’s aggrevating.


I have a card that is a 1/1 - and I’m glad to have it - but every time I see the version /5, i get annoyed because all of the /5 patches are better than my 1/1.



Last thing..... and this is directed at everyone. I would love to know how many estimated copies there are, particularly of the Illuminator (series 2). Can anyone show their caluculations and sources? I personally would guess that the 65-75 estimates that I have read seem low. I’d guess it’s 100-150, but that’s just based on feel. Actual math would be awesome.

[notorioussog]

I don’t know any celebs and I drive a Dodge Ram with like 80k miles


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[Starman101]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

Thanks everyone! Picked up the MJ Luminescent #T1B and a Illuminator #T9B. Still can't believe how affordable these cards are in comparison to other rare 90's Jordan's.

Thank you again to everyone for all the awesome feedback and support.

Smart man

I too agree with 27guy that I would certainly prefer the T1B Luminescent over the T1B Illuminator as the Luminescent is a better looking card with the refractor like surface, regardless of rarity

As far as the T9B goes.....

That's a card I am very bullish on

As 27guy alluded to the pop reports on them are completely scewed due to all of the Illuminator mislabels

While I'm not sure what the exact numbers are I would estimate they are most likely less than 100 copies IMO

In this regard I draw a parallel (pun intended) to MJs 95-96 Orange Mystery Finest Test Refractor which also has a ton of mislabels as well. Those too are rumored to be in 50 range though I think its more likely in the 100 range, though no one really knows for sure

But I do know they are both beautiful, rare cards that are must haves if you PC MJ

Smart move on pulling the trigger here, especially on the T9B

Card is just a killer

I would personally send the T9B back to PSA and have them correctly relabel it as a T9B Illuminator BTW

Just my 2 cents though

Fantastic pickups

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by notorioussog

I don’t know any celebs and I drive a Dodge Ram with like 80k miles


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lol, ah HAH, but...how do you know that your Dodge Ram wasn't owned by a celebrity in the past? Also, that's not an Illuminator, that's a Luminescent. The Series 1 Illuminators were clear acetate with no refractor effect. Sorry, dude.

I'm not sure if these guys are discussing the different variants of the Triumvirate or what when they say 'level' but they go in order of Luminous, Luminescent and finally Illuminator.

[Gem10collection]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Show them off when they arrive.

For what it’s worth, I had the Illuminator series 1 and actually sold it when I saw the level 2. The rarest level ought to be the best looking! When it’s not, it’s aggrevating.


I have a card that is a 1/1 - and I’m glad to have it - but every time I see the version /5, i get annoyed because all of the /5 patches are better than my 1/1.



Last thing..... and this is directed at everyone. I would love to know how many estimated copies there are, particularly of the Illuminator (series 2). Can anyone show their caluculations and sources? I personally would guess that the 65-75 estimates that I have read seem low. I’d guess it’s 100-150, but that’s just based on feel. Actual math would be awesome.

PHD did a calculation of this - which I confirm and agree with - earlier in the thread. I used Becket online for my resource.

https://www.beckett.com/basketball/1...e-illuminator/

I am quite sure the reason why we sometimes feel there is more of these cards than really exists is because of the massive community and "expert" confusion surrounding them. I have looked at soooo many mislabeled versions on both PSA and BGS slabs. Even the version I purchased mislabeled the Illuminator as a Luminous. There are just sooo many slabs out there that say Illuminator when in reality it is the Luminescent (the fellow collector above has one of these). But, I believe as the community becomes more educated and aware of their true print run and develops the skills and know how to differentiate these cards the Triumvirate will gain increased prominence. Simply put, they are absolutely gorgeous cards (with the series 2 Illuminator taking the cake) and deserve to be put on the pantheon of 90's insert/parallels.

Lastly, I collect 90's to mid 2000's inserts/parallel across multiple sports but only MJ's, and Kobe's, and Griffey's, and Jeter's, and that sort of players, and you would be surprised how available some insanely rare cards are. You can almost allllways find legacy, and rubies, and pmg's, and essentail credneitlas of these guys if you simply set up an eBay notification and give it some time. Having said that, I had to put in some work to get the Illuminator.

My two cents. Hope everyone has a great weekend.

[Gem10collection]

Hi all,

So PWCC has three MJ Triumvirates on auction and it amazes me how bad the market understands this set (myself included until a few weeks ago). The Luminescent in BGS 9.5 has shipping cost of $12.50, the Luminescent in PSA 10 has shipping cost of $20.00, and the Illuminator in BGS 9.5 has a shipping cost of....... wait for it...... $6.00?!?! Um, am I missing something here? I'm pretty sure that's a legit Illuminator. Anyone else seeing this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Stadiu...C/143166284217

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Stadiu...C/401726289363

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Stadiu...C/143166284015

[csrockerzero]

One more thing to note. Some of these were released with Members Only sets. Example shown below for the Glenn Robinson.









I'm also going to use this opportunity to show off my Hardaway Illuminator

[CastleBeachCards]

I have put together all versions of series 2 and almost completed series 1.........I've been putting together for 8 years..........if i could only keep 1 set, it would be 97/98 triumvirate.......incredible set and the mystery of "which effing one is this?" is what drew me in

[Gem10collection]

How can we distinguish the member only sets from the regular? Is there a separate print run for these?

Awesome Timmy!!!

[phdbeckett]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

How can we distinguish the member only sets from the regular? Is there a separate print run for these?

Awesome Timmy!!!

They are labeled across the front, diagonally "MEMBERS ONLY "repeatedly.

[6celtics33]

I just picked this one up.... very cool item

You can see "members only" going across his shorts

[Gem10collection]

So, is there a separate and distinct print run for the members only?

[frisbeesteve]

Originally Posted by phdbeckett

They are labeled across the front, diagonally "MEMBERS ONLY "repeatedly.

True for series 1 as I have now learned, but not for series 2. I think the 1997-98 Triumvirates in general are one of the most confusing inserts/sets ever. The Illuminators are designed differently for series 2 than they were for series 1, and now so are the Members Only versions! This all in addition to the difference between Luminescent and Illuminator being tricky to determine, especially in most pictures.

Here's my Members Only from series 2, with the distinction only made on the back of the card:

1997-98 Stadium Club Triumvirate Members Only No. T15A by peaceful_garden, on Flickr

[Gem10collection]

Originally Posted by frisbeesteve

True for series 1 as I have now learned, but not for series 2. I think the 1997-98 Triumvirates in general are one of the most confusing inserts/sets ever. The Illuminators are designed differently for series 2 than they were for series 1, and now so are the Members Only versions! This all in addition to the difference between Luminescent and Illuminator being tricky to determine, especially in most pictures.

Here's my Members Only from series 2, with the distinction only made on the back of the card:

1997-98 Stadium Club Triumvirate Members Only No. T15A by peaceful_garden, on Flickr

Gees bud!! Monster collection!! Very nice!!

[frisbeesteve]

Originally Posted by Gem10collection

Gees bud!! Monster collection!! Very nice!!

Thanks!

[roboshap]

These examples seem like more instances of grading mislabeling. To me, it appears that the PSA copy labeled as the luminous is actually the illuminator while the BGS copy labeled as the illuminator is actually the luminous version. Thoughts? As others have noted, it’s a shame that the grading companies have had such difficulty telling the difference.




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[cardnoob]

I love this thread!

I didn't know anything about these cards before the OP, but now I have a weird obsessive need to find the 1998 Eddie Jones Illuminator. I'm assuming the conversations happening in this thread is the reason why they decided to label the parallels after 1997

[CastleBeachCards]

wow........a 10!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

I just picked this one up.... very cool item

You can see "members only" going across his shorts


Attachment 450886

[roboshap]

I found several other graded examples of the Series 2 version that appear to be mislabeled as Illuminators. One really has to know what to look for seeing as the grading companies can’t seem to get it right.




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