Giannis "The Greak Freak" Antetokounmpo Thread

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by MrAnonymous

Just picked up this bad boy - perfect timing - very excite!

Very nice pick up!

[oshmeehan]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Defensively they are a different animal this year...

That seemed to lack somewhat in 2021-22.

They switched up their defense this season. They no longer are allowing the wide (and by wide I mean WIDE) open 3's, but are still maintaining their excellent D in the paint. Jevon Carter is also pressuring the PG all the way down the court, which you don't see often in the NBA and is probably a bit annoying for the opponent.

[oshmeehan]

Love tracking Giannis jumping up the NBA All-Time Scoring List as he usually passes a player nearly every game.

Giannis started the season at 167th on the list and is at 158th now. Conservatively, if he doesn't get injured this season and if you account for taking games off for rest, he should finish somewhere around 105th-110th when the season ends. A similar season next season and he will be in the Top 75.

[JAMSC]

Next up on the list is a big one, Bill Russell. Could pass him next game.

[KhalDrogo]

If he stays healthy and wins another 2+ titles, he should easily be in the HOF inner circle.

[cms11]

Giannis is a likable Karl Malone with a title. Add in a couple more titles and IMO he passes Duncan as the best PF of all-time.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by cms11

Giannis is a likable Karl Malone with a title. Add in a couple more titles and IMO he passes Duncan as the best PF of all-time.

Giannis doesn’t bang children

But sure

[PLB9eight]

Originally Posted by cms11

Giannis is a likable Karl Malone with a title. Add in a couple more titles and IMO he passes Duncan as the best PF of all-time.

Duncan was great but the fact he benefits from being considered a PF when he played center for the meat of his career is frustrating. As a center he doesn’t stack up near as well on the position list.


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[msink28]

I think that's debatable. Duncan stacks up well against anyone at any position on any list. It would be pretty easy to put him third behind Kareem and Wilt at C.

Originally Posted by PLB9eight

Duncan was great but the fact he benefits from being considered a PF when he played center for the meat of his career is frustrating. As a center he doesn’t stack up near as well on the position list.


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[PLB9eight]

Originally Posted by msink28

I think that's debatable. Duncan stacks up well against anyone at any position on any list. It would be pretty easy to put him third behind Kareem and Wilt at C.

Meh. I’d take Shaq, Russell, or Hakeem over him every time. Either way Giannis will be right in that group at his current pace.


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[titletowncards]

Originally Posted by oshmeehan

They switched up their defense this season. They no longer are allowing the wide (and by wide I mean WIDE) open 3's, but are still maintaining their excellent D in the paint. Jevon Carter is also pressuring the PG all the way down the court, which you don't see often in the NBA and is probably a bit annoying for the opponent.

Also have Lopez healthy for the beginning of the season makes their interior defense really good. I believe Lopez leads the league in blocks so far this season. Hitting 3's, stretching defenses allows Giannis a lot of room around the rim.

[Luni]

Originally Posted by titletowncards

Also have Lopez healthy for the beginning of the season makes their interior defense really good. I believe Lopez leads the league in blocks so far this season. Hitting 3's, stretching defenses allows Giannis a lot of room around the rim.

Yeah I knew Lopez was important but not THAT important. He's been amazing so far this season and really helps out the team tremendously.

[Luni]

Also, sharing some Giannis pickups I've had this offseason:

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by Luni

Also, sharing some Giannis pickups I've had this offseason:

Really like that Purple Elite.

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

and wins another 2+ titles

That's a really big ask. He's already beat the odds by winning one. Championships are so hard to win. Anything else is gravy at this point.

But if he stays healthy he'll keep adding to his already impressive list of individual awards quite easily.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by smalltown

That's a really big ask. He's already beat the odds by winning one. Championships are so hard to win. Anything else is gravy at this point.

But if he stays healthy he'll keep adding to his already impressive list of individual awards quite easily.

Yeah, and getting into the inner circle is a very big ask...

What do we consider the cutoff for the inner circle:

-LeBron
-Jordan
-Kareem
-Magic
-Bird
-Wilt
-Russell
-Shaq
-Duncan
-Oscar
-Kobe

I feel like even within that inner circle there's an inner circle.

[JAMSC]

There’s levels to it

Jordan
Lebron Kareem
Shaq Russell Duncan
Magic Bird Curry Wilt

[smalltown]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Yeah, and getting into the inner circle is a very big ask...

I think the GOAT(s) argument is a little tired. There are greats from every generation. When it's said and done Giannis will be one of the greats from this generation.

[yiguiri2002]

I think there is an unlikely scenario that's not discussed that could put Giannis ahead...

Wins 1 more title and MVP in Milwaukee, becomes best Buck of all time. Summer of 2026, he's a free agent and decides to test new waters as the Bucks start rebuilding.

Goes to a team with a big fanbase (Bulls, Knicks, Celtics), signs a max and helps them being relevant/win a title.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Yeah, and getting into the inner circle is a very big ask...

What do we consider the cutoff for the inner circle:

-LeBron
-Jordan
-Kareem
-Magic
-Bird
-Wilt
-Russell
-Shaq
-Duncan
-Oscar
-Kobe

I feel like even within that inner circle there's an inner circle.

It looks/feels like Giannis has been "consensus pick" as the game's best player for a few seasons now, and that's with the largest talent pool ever. How many players in NBA history, without as big a talent pool at their time, were touted as the game's best player for years on end?

Or look at MVP Award Share through this point in his career or age 27/28, how many players in history exceeded that? Something like 4 players, one of them KD I believe.

Without the team accolades of the "top 10/12 all-time greats," Giannis has a hard time comparing otherwise. But are we going to say for sure that all of the players you list dominated the game as much as Giannis is doing? If championships are the metric, then no (and because of the talent pool, the path to a championship is that much harder than in generations past, etc.). If it's about how much difference a single player makes (it really is kinda dumb to factor in Khris Middleton's health for such GOATy comparisons, yes?), then is he at or past the level of a Shaq, Hakeem, Steph, et al? His Award Shares numbers already suggest yes. Magic or Larry? How do you tell? MJ or Bron? I'm all ears for arguments, but those two have racked up tons of Award Share to go with the chips.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by JAMSC

There’s levels to it

Jordan
Lebron Kareem
Shaq Russell Duncan
Magic Bird Curry Wilt

I agree with you that there's levels to it.

Just switched around some players from your pyramid.

Jordan
Lebron
Kareem Wilt
Shaq Russell Duncan Magic Bird Curry

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by smalltown

I think the GOAT(s) argument is a little tired. There are greats from every generation. When it's said and done Giannis will be one of the greats from this generation.

The whole point of an 'inner circle' argument is to get away from the GOAT conversation.

I think it's easier to just agree that a guy like Kareem is a clear level above players like Duncan, Hakeem, and Shaq, than it is to get everyone to agree where exactly Kareem ranks.

[JAMSC]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

I agree with you that there's levels to it.

Just switched around some players from your pyramid.

Jordan
Lebron
Kareem Wilt
Shaq Russell Duncan Magic Bird Curry

Same 10, and I kinda consider that the “inner circle” currently. There’s a next tier in my mind of the best of just outside the inner circle, which for me is Kobe, Hakeem, Oscar, Dr. J, and Durant. This is the group I think Giannis is very close to cracking.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

I agree with you that there's levels to it.

Just switched around some players from your pyramid.

Jordan
Lebron
Kareem Wilt
Shaq Russell Duncan Magic Bird Curry

MJ (6 chips)
Russell (11), Bron (4), Kareem (6)
Magic (5), Timmy (5), Larry (3), Wilt (2), Shaq (4), Kobe (5), Chef (4)

But let's look at it another way, this time focusing on the comparison of Kareem to the Greek Freak:

For the first several years of their careers they played with Milwaukee, winning one chip each (Kareem was paired with one Oscar Robertson, past his prime I assume), with KAJ winning a lot more MVP awards and award share. And yet, given how Kareem was so dominant in his prime, especially a 7-year stretch where he won 5 MVP awards, and in an era where some of the best players were in another Basketball Association, and he gets all of 1 ring during that time.

Then he goes to L.A., and doesn't start winning rings until Magic joins the team, it's doubtful that a Magic-less Lakers team would win in '80, it's arguable that '85 Finals MVP was a legacy vote for KAJ, and I don't see what major role KAJ played in the '87-88 titles.

(Rank-score the impact from 5 points to 1 based on the option-rank, say, of the team's starting 5. Magic gets 5 points for '87 LAL, and 4 or 5 points in '88, does Kareem get anywhere close to the same number of impact points as Magic does for those 2 rings?)

My point being, when it comes to pulling in chips, it looks like Magic had impact arguable comparable to that of KAJ. When it comes to MVP Award Shares, Kareem has a greater career than Magic despite typically smaller share for MVP vote leaders under voting rules during Kareem's time, but he didn't have the likes of Larry and Michael eating away at a lot of his award share in his prime, and didn't have a shortened career.

Compare/contrast with the impact of a Timmy Duncan who was the key impact player on at least 3 Spurs rings, arguably 4, and still important for a 5th. His regular-season MVP share is arguably at Magic/Larry levels when you adjust for era effects. It's clear he belongs in a "top 8 GOAT-candidates" argument, and we have the likes of Bill Simmons and Clayton Crowley agreed on who those top 8 are. But after adjusting for era effects, what justifies a ranking for KAJ higher than, say, 4th place all-time? What separates him from a Magic, Timmy, prime Larry, Wilt?

And adjusting for era, how do we compare prime Kareem to prime Freak? For one thing, the best NBA players in Kareem's day were Americans, Kareem wasn't up against prime Joker as peer competition else the history books would reflect such impact, right?

Meanwhile, Giannis Antetokuonmpo (sp?) scored 50 points in an NBA Finals closer, something that only MJ and Bron had pulled off since the days of Jerry West's prime I think. Maybe Giannis is a top-5 player all-time after you adjust for era and difficulty of pulling chips and award share from the peer-competition.

sorry for posting a treatise but I kinda wanted to cover the more obvious bases at once

[yaofan11]

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