Will BBCE authenticated items take a dip?

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

why did it take five days to edit an eight minute video?

Five days for an eight minute video like this is actually considered a very fast turnaround. I edit commercials and routinely work on 30 second spots that spend over a month in post production. You have to account for transcoding, breaking down/screening footage, assembly, music/sound design, mixing, color grading, graphics, revisions, etc.

Oddly enough I've actually edited some Logan Paul videos in the past (via Triller for the Mayweather fight). His team basically rolls camera 24/7 and they shoot a TON of footage, which also slows down the process significantly.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

why did it take five days to edit an eight minute video?

Logan Paul legal team probably advised him not to. They probably waited for his money to be returned to him and cleared in his account before he released the video.

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Logan Paul legal team probably advised him not to. They probably waited for his money to be returned to him and cleared in his account before he released the video.

Forget what I said -- this is probably the correct answer.

[Timsterino]

Originally Posted by thewesdub

I realize BBCE is going to take the biggest hit here, followed by Meelypops (and they deserve it) but am I the only one that thinks CardKahuna is the real crook in this entire situation? IIRC he's the one that roped in MeelyPops who in turn got BBCE to auth the case. Kahuna is also the guy that had the backstory on the whole thing and kept changing it up.

What a total s-show.

I think CardKahuna is just as much to blame here BUT Meely Pops has been doing this a long time and they absolutely should know better. Nobody “roped them in.” I watched their video that they put up when they did the deal with Shyne. He is no bystander here who got suckered in. They have been silent for a reason.

[lseecon]

Originally Posted by mc1

Since you never made it back to the Kobe Investment thread, I wanted to give you an update.
Theres a total of 27k graded Kobe 1996 Topps RCs. About 3600 Gem Mints. Hope you sold at peak!

Only 3,600 PSA 10 base Bryant rookie cards graded? Thats pretty low for one of the most loved HOF players. Figured it would be closer to 20,000 by now with the millions people said were sitting around. so the gem rate is only about 15%?? damn. thats pretty low for a modern card.

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by mc1

From another thread.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=172751

Well that didn't kill his reputation, clearly. Lots of people probably didnt even know about it, or if they did at the time they've long since forgotten. This situation has drawn A LOT more attention but I'm not convinced the outcome will be any different. People have short memories, and in lots of cases it's deliberate (even if subconsciously) because WE WANT to believe it's all legit. In a real-life Matrix the vast majority of us are taking that blue pill.

[duron]

Originally Posted by pip

So BBCE successfully authenticated a 1980, 1981 and 1982 Topps box. Impressive. Cookies for them and for you for finding the video. The veil has been removed and the scales have fallen from our eyes. We're doubters no longer.

All hail Scootz.

[goldfly]

You have to factor in how little most will care that a paul kid got ripped off

but bbce shouldn't have stepping into authenticating things they weren't comfortable with knowing and should have reached out and gotten help if they did take the job

[goldfly]

Originally Posted by thewesdub

I realize BBCE is going to take the biggest hit here, followed by Meelypops (and they deserve it) but am I the only one that thinks CardKahuna is the real crook in this entire situation? IIRC he's the one that roped in MeelyPops who in turn got BBCE to auth the case. Kahuna is also the guy that had the backstory on the whole thing and kept changing it up.

What a total s-show.

i have to laugh that the names being used for a fake 3.5 million dollar deal is "Meelypops" and "CardKahuna" lol

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by hammertime

Well that didn't kill his reputation, clearly. Lots of people probably didnt even know about it, or if they did at the time they've long since forgotten. This situation has drawn A LOT more attention but I'm not convinced the outcome will be any different. People have short memories, and in lots of cases it's deliberate (even if subconsciously) because WE WANT to believe it's all legit. In a real-life Matrix the vast majority of us are taking that blue pill.

The hobby (people in general) can't even agree on the simplest topics (what's a RC card?), so it won't be shocking to see a certain percentage of the Hobby ignore/overlook this authentication failure.

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

They don’t guarantee anything they do. This is why other TPGs don’t compare to PSA, who has a plethora of “mistakes”. They’ll make you whole.

You must have missed a few threads.

[bwatson18]

After all this it got me thinking about the Dallas show last March when SashaT did a big deal with CardKahuna for a PSA 10 Charizard. It was shortly after that weekend that this case was brought to Meelypops attention by CardKahuna. I assume that this is the first time that Meely and Kahuna met. If he would do a deal for a fake case could he have also pulled one over on Sasha? I don't know a lot about pokemon but how easy would it be to fake a PSA 10 Charizard? You can see the deal in the video below starting around the 5-minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiHZ5Q036mU

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

You must have missed a few threads.

We all acknowledge that PSA will not always agree a card was altered.

Can you point to one example where PSA slabbed a fake product and wouldn’t refund someone who bought the slab?

[theshowandme]

[cruiserdaddy7]

I like how Steve says "We all got duped". The people in that room got duped by his pathetic authentication failure. Had he not wrapped it, it would have never sold for those prices. With no financial guarantee, he is completely off the hook. If he won't even financially back his own service, why would anyone invest in his products? Makes no sense after this.

[TrickyNick]

You're telling me that there are crooked people in sports cards? I'm shocked. Shocked.

Most this stuff will never be opened. No one buys it at these prices to open. The collectors of unopened wax don't open it. They're less likely to sell it to someone that might open it (who has liability if it's Gi Joe packs?). So all this unopened wax sits on shelves like little IEDs in collections.

Shroedinger's Wax?

[SpartanWarrior]

The real issue is that when third party grading originated in Baseball cards. It wasn't focused on telling folks that items were authentic. It was all about differentiating between cards.

In stamps the gold standard is an APS certificate. It doesn't tell the buyer how much better or worse the stamp or cancel or cover is than any other stamp/cancel/cover that exists. It tells the buyer that the item is real. Certificates are also issued saying the item is counterfeit/forged, etc.

The result is that TPG's have a lot of unsophisticated graders. They are like the folks making french fries at McD's. They are able to follow directions but have little to no actual expertise in cards.

If people understood some of the things that went on back when ASA and PSA started they would be far less likely to pay a premium for their graded cards. The promises being made to dealers to become "authorized" dealers were outright ridiculous - "if you ever NEED a grade" "your cards will be treated well" type of promises.

All collectible businesses attract a certain number of dishonest people looking to make "easy' money. Unfortunately, I've believed for about 30 years that BB cards is the one with the widest variety of dirty elements. Coins have had a lot of issues through the years. Stamps had in the 60's-70's a lot of guys re-gumming, re-perfing, and just plain counterfeiting. Cards has elements in every area of the hobby - unopened, trimming, recoloring, removing creases, TPG cronyism and ineptitude, counterfeiting, breaking, autographs, memorabilia, etc etc. I don't see any improvement happening and little to now incentives for things to change

Enjoy the cards as they are and try to leave all the grading nonsense out of your collecting decisions.

[theshowandme]

I told folks Charizard was a safe investment because he is not at risk of ruining his career with steroids, DUI, domestic violence, etc. He's a good dragon.

G.I Joe was always a sleeper pick: been saving the world for 6 decades and is a 2x HOFer (Toy/Pop Culture)

[tahlering]

This was very interesting to follow.

Seems like Kahuna certainly knew something was up and roped meeleylops into the plan who utilized his connection with bbce with the knowledge that they’ll clearly “authenticate” anything so long as it “looks” like it hasn’t been opened and that they don’t have much, if any, of a process. Maybe they even greased BBCE’s palms a little or pressured them to “authenticate” even though they it’s outside of their lane (who knows). But they had to know buying something like this with so many red flags for so little and then flipping it for a 2+ million profit seemed too good to be true and it certainly was. Shyne had to have been fully aware of that also, but nonetheless put way too much faith in BBCE’s process and service which does not appear to be much of anything. I’m sure Shyne or other big buyer’s will never make a purchase like that again based only on the fact that BBCE blessed it.

If BBCE was smart, they’d hire the Rattle guy as a consultant/contractor to bring in for Pokémon and make an announcement in that regard to the public. I’d certainly trust something that guy was involved in looking at WAYYY more than whatever BBCE does. In fact, all grading companies should consider doing that on seriously high-value items (ie find a contact/consultant who is an authority in each specific product like finding a guy who is the foremost exquisite collector, Jordan collector, etc. and consult them for their opinions before authenticating a product/card that they know either has sold or is going to sell for millions). Might not be super feasible, but I would pay a premium for such a service. If they could point to certain guys on the payroll and say, we had them look at it too and it looks good, then that could restore some faith…

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

I like how Steve says "We all got duped". The people in that room got duped by his pathetic authentication failure. Had he not wrapped it, it would have never sold for those prices. With no financial guarantee, he is completely off the hook. If he won't even financially back his own service, why would anyone invest in his products? Makes no sense after this.

Exactly, what the he’ll do the other people have to do with it being fake. If anything, they were duped by the expert BBCE, so yes maybe that statement from Steve rang true.

[tahlering]

Originally Posted by SpartanWarrior

The real issue is that when third party grading originated in Baseball cards. It wasn't focused on telling folks that items were authentic. It was all about differentiating between cards.

In stamps the gold standard is an APS certificate. It doesn't tell the buyer how much better or worse the stamp or cancel or cover is than any other stamp/cancel/cover that exists. It tells the buyer that the item is real. Certificates are also issued saying the item is counterfeit/forged, etc.

The result is that TPG's have a lot of unsophisticated graders. They are like the folks making french fries at McD's. They are able to follow directions but have little to no actual expertise in cards.

If people understood some of the things that went on back when ASA and PSA started they would be far less likely to pay a premium for their graded cards. The promises being made to dealers to become "authorized" dealers were outright ridiculous - "if you ever NEED a grade" "your cards will be treated well" type of promises.

All collectible businesses attract a certain number of dishonest people looking to make "easy' money. Unfortunately, I've believed for about 30 years that BB cards is the one with the widest variety of dirty elements. Coins have had a lot of issues through the years. Stamps had in the 60's-70's a lot of guys re-gumming, re-perfing, and just plain counterfeiting. Cards has elements in every area of the hobby - unopened, trimming, recoloring, removing creases, TPG cronyism and ineptitude, counterfeiting, breaking, autographs, memorabilia, etc etc. I don't see any improvement happening and little to now incentives for things to change

Enjoy the cards as they are and try to leave all the grading nonsense out of your collecting decisions.

Good post. I agree and dovetails with my idea above that a collector relying on authentication services for seriously high valued items should insist that they bring in outside consultants with more day to day experience in an item for their opinion before signing off (like this Rattle guy for Pokémon etc.). Important also that those individuals don’t have any skin in that transaction. It looked like in this case there were a few poke people (ie that pokejew) who were compensated by the SELLER to say “looks good”. Clearly he’s conflicted bc he’s being paid/hired to come to a single conclusion.

[tonedef2oo8]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Everything isn't black or white. I'm not defending him in regard to the Pokemon case. I think Vegas would have the case as favored to be a fake. But as a businessman over the last 25 years? Yeah, I have had nothing but great experiences dealing with Steve and BBCE. They have more of my confidence than most dealers in the hobby.

Arthur

So you sat here pretending not to defend him. Then in the middle post this.

Sick motives bro. And amazing you make all that noise for days trying to cloud up this topic here then avoid this topic (while constantly checking on it) .

Can we stop paying attention to this guy now. It’s literally all he does here.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by tonedef2oo8

So you sat here pretending not to defend him. Then in the middle post this.

Sick motives bro. And amazing you make all that noise for days trying to cloud up this topic here then avoid this topic (while constantly checking on it) .

Can we stop paying attention to this guy now. It’s literally all he does here.

He’ll just claim he was busy and that he has a real life. And then make any excuse he can find to defend Steve. Or maybe he’ll just avoid the thread altogether. I certainly would like to hear his opinion now. Because he had a lot of terrible opinions before the reveal.

[Diver757]

Originally Posted by ScooterMcRibs

I just told you, and all you could respond with was personal attacks.

"If you’re buying a case of Prizm that costs tens of thousands of dollars, and paying a premium for the BBCE wrap, you’re not buying it to open."

Blatantly false. Go spread lies somewhere else, I know you like to have fun trying to ruin a man and his business but you've gone too far. Get a life hater.

That guy did a hell of a job ruining his own reputation by authenticating that box, and then allowing himself to be filmed while it was opened. Sort of like if a lawyer asks a question, he better know the answer. Seems to me he took their money and was only kind of sure it was real. Kind of or maybe are words that shouldn't be used when 3.5 mil is at stake.

[theshowandme]

I'm a tech guy that loves art and how it is authenticated (x-rays, paper/ink/canvas tests, forensics to determine brush stroke patterns, etc.).

Can someone enlighten me on the methods used to authenticate sealed wax? I heard the guy point out the aging of the box, the sticker, etc. Is that it? I am not trying to be silly, but what goes into this type of analysis?