LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by rustywest

Add me to this growing sentiment. You nailed it. Eric's multiple opening paragraph's are nice and all but are essentially a diversion

Yeah that's why I quoted his post minus all that unneeded stuff.

[rustywest]

I saw that Siberian13, that was a nice touch

[the27guy]

Eric wouldn’t say a negative word to me about sohrob.

Jack seems to feel the same way.

In talking to a few other really smart members though, sohrob was believed to alter several other high end cards, especially Durant’s.

Unrelated thought - Eric has sold for several big time collectors on consignment. Not sure if he did for sohrob.

Also unrelated but worth mentioning while I am here another theory. Another well known trimmer - ebayer unklbnz - seemed to stop grading with BGS a few years ago in favor of PSA on thicker cards. McGahee and I solved at least 3-4 cases where cards were purchased, trimmed, and then showed up in psa holders. It seemed that BGS had, at least, caught on to his game, while PSA continued. I’m just speculating now, but I wonder if bgs caught on to sohrob’s trimming game as well and that is why and when he got out. You can imagine his pay day was quite something.

Makes me wonder if this BGS issue was remedied since the era in which these were graded. I wish they and psa would both acknowledge when they discovered their issues. Both have graded fakes. Both have graded trimmed cards. Both showing transparency and acknowledging their errors would go a long way.

I’d also like a more all-inclusive grading service for uber high end. A $200-$400 a card service that include exact dimensions and possibly tests on the age of the card and ink. The test should also give the grader time to scower the internet for images of the card that might determine Patch switching. The grader should write a report on the card and that report should be publicly available by scanning the serial number online. This is seriously a no brainer and we are ready for it and need the service immediately. Beckett, PSA, and SGC could easily get a leg up on the competition by implementing these changes.

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Eric wouldn’t say a negative word to me about sohrob.

Jack seems to feel the same way.

In talking to a few other really smart members though, sohrob was believed to alter several other high end cards, especially Durant’s.

Also unrelated but worth mentioning while I am here another theory. Another well known trimmer - ebayer unklbnz - seemed to stop grading with BGS a few years ago in favor of PSA on thicker cards. McGahee and I solved at least 3-4 cases where cards were purchased, trimmed, and then showed up in psa holders. It seemed that BGS had, at least, caught on to his game, while PSA continued. I’m just speculating now, but I wonder if bgs caught on to sohrob’s trimming game as well and that is why and when he got out. You can imagine his pay day was quite something.

Well, they sure as hell buried him in here. What is omitted in a private conversation is not damaging the way it is on a public forum on the internet...but, who cares, because Sohrob is supposedly out of the hobby anyway and this can just resolve conveniently.

I'm sure you mean well, but unlkbnz is non-relevant here since he's been exposed and if BGS caught on to Sohrob's supposed trimming scam, which provided him with a payday that was quite something, wouldn't he just have someone else submit the cards for him instead of leaving "the hobby" (of making money)?

[Deadshot]

I know there's a tracker for the LeBron cards, but we really need to make a proactive effort to start saving/cataloging images of high profile cards. There's a misconception that once an image makes it's way to the internet, it's there forever. It might be there somewhere, but tracking it down can be tricky. Case in point, look at how difficult things got when Photobucket made their big changes. Now that Flickr is capping the number of pics, I expect some of those to start vanishing soon, too. I proposed some sort of archive here but there really wasn't any interest

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1221922

Maybe this is something we could implement with the basketball card pedia that's in the works.

[splum]

Originally Posted by ebitz

I stand by the fact, which I stated in a post from 2016, that I bought #74/99 as a BGS 9 from sohrob when I bought our his entire collection in 2014 and I did NOT have any knowledge of its prior history. I bought #87 in the same collection raw and graded it BGS 9 when I received it and I recall it being a clean card and didn’t appear trimmed to me. I graded it promptly and it graded BGS 9. I stand by the fact that I did not trim either of these cards or have any involvement with someone else trimming the cards.

https://buynicecards.com/product/200...87-99-bgs-9-10

https://www.beckett.com/grading/card...&submit=Submit


#87 was graded April 24th, 2015. I guess I'd sit around and stare at this card for a few months after I bought it too, but if this card ever came under question I definitely would not claim to have promptly had it graded when that is so easily researched.

What happened between you purchasing the card in 2014 and getting it graded in April 2015 you felt compelled to lie to say that you had it promptly graded? Why do that?

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by splum

https://buynicecards.com/product/200...87-99-bgs-9-10

https://www.beckett.com/grading/card...&submit=Submit


#87 was graded April 24th, 2015. I guess I'd sit around and stare at this card for a few months after I bought it too, but if this card ever came under question I definitely would not claim to have promptly had it graded when that is so easily researched.

What happened between you purchasing the card in 2014 and getting it graded in April 2015 that you felt like you felt compelled to lie to say that you had it promptly graded? Why do that?

splummed?!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Boo]

Originally Posted by splum

https://buynicecards.com/product/200...87-99-bgs-9-10

https://www.beckett.com/grading/card...&submit=Submit


#87 was graded April 24th, 2015. I guess I'd sit around and stare at this card for a few months after I bought it too, but if this card ever came under question I definitely would not claim to have promptly had it graded when that is so easily researched.

What happened between you purchasing the card in 2014 and getting it graded in April 2015 that you felt like you felt compelled to lie to say that you had it promptly graded? Why do that?

[theLUCKYshow]

TIME OUT!

I think BO has uncovered as much as it can on the LBJ EXQ #74. Verdict: Altered. Trimming Suspects: sorhob, sorhob, sorhobs guy, eric (can be removed from the list if he shows record of purchasing as BGS 9). Rookies you are free to go. Owner: eric.

Now has anyone looked into #87? Is this all in the end going to lead us to Bill?




Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[splum]

The thing that bothers me the most, he's under no obligation to tell us that he promptly had the card graded, and there is no reason to even say that unless he knows that he needs to to protect himself. This is so stupid.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by splum

https://buynicecards.com/product/200...87-99-bgs-9-10

https://www.beckett.com/grading/card...&submit=Submit


#87 was graded April 24th, 2015. I guess I'd sit around and stare at this card for a few months after I bought it too, but if this card ever came under question I definitely would not claim to have promptly had it graded when that is so easily researched.

What happened between you purchasing the card in 2014 and getting it graded in April 2015 that you felt like you felt compelled to lie to say that you had it promptly graded? Why do that?

Bravo. Remember, this is the guy who others have claimed has meticulous records about these transactions. So he would know the year it was purchased.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by discostu

I've bumped a few cards that were clearly incorrect and did not disclose the previous grades, nor would I expect anyone to do that. People make mistakes, and grades often reflect that...in good ways and bad ways.

The adage of "buy the card, not the grade" is always in play.

That said, we have to be able to assume that cards measure correctly...BGS and PSA should be able to at least guarantee that.

I agree with what you said, I think it just links back to total transparency which can only be viewed as a GOOD thing in my book.

I personally don't care if a card was a PSA 7 and now a PSA 10, it is what it is. I think NOT disclosing that fact when selling a card is a little bit disingenuous. If we all agree that bumping cards isn't a big deal, then disclosing what the card previously graded shouldn't be a big deal either, right? In terms of the top 1% of cards, I'd say full disclosure is paramount.

It's not a big deal overall, but I can imagine to somebody spending the money they'd like to know the whole story of a card if one exists. I know I would.

I think it links back perfectly to the nature of NOT disclosing everything about a card, which is the general problem as I know it.

-1 Lebron EXQ RPA gets pulled in 2003 and is immediately graded a 9.5.
-1 Lebron EXQ RPA was pulled in 2003, originally graded a BGS 9, then resubmitted and obtains the BGS 9.5

Both are now BGS 9.5s, but all things equal we all know which one we'd rather purchase if we were in the market for said card. Maybe not every purchaser, but I'd be willing to bet the vast majority.

[mfisher27]

The one that got a 9.5?

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I agree with what you said, I think it just links back to total transparency which can only be viewed as a GOOD thing in my book.

I personally don't care if a card was a PSA 7 and now a PSA 10, it is what it is. I think NOT disclosing that fact when selling a card is a little bit disingenuous. If we all agree that bumping cards isn't a big deal, then disclosing what the card previously graded shouldn't be a big deal either, right? In terms of the top 1% of cards, I'd say full disclosure is paramount.

It's not a big deal overall, but I can imagine to somebody spending the money they'd like to know the whole story of a card if one exists. I know I would.

I think it links back perfectly to the nature of NOT disclosing everything about a card, which is the general problem as I know it.

-1 Lebron EXQ RPA gets pulled in 2003 and is immediately graded a 9.5.
-1 Lebron EXQ RPA was pulled in 2003, originally graded a BGS 9, then resubmitted and obtains the BGS 9.5

Both are now BGS 9.5s, but all things equal we all know which one we'd rather purchase if we were in the market for said card. Maybe not every purchaser, but I'd be willing to bet the vast majority.

[Jasondr91]

Thread of the decade? Over or under Haiku? We need sportitupcards in here for nostalgia.

[starvela]

Originally Posted by splum

https://buynicecards.com/product/200...87-99-bgs-9-10

https://www.beckett.com/grading/card...&submit=Submit


#87 was graded April 24th, 2015. I guess I'd sit around and stare at this card for a few months after I bought it too, but if this card ever came under question I definitely would not claim to have promptly had it graded when that is so easily researched.

What happened between you purchasing the card in 2014 and getting it graded in April 2015 that you felt like you felt compelled to lie to say that you had it promptly graded? Why do that?

THIS^

[VIII]

Quick question, does Buynicecard still have #87/99 in his position or did he sold it to someone else already? someone else is claiming to have that card.

[KhalDrogo]

Here are the 4 cards from that submission:
Card Serial Number: 0008613849
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613850
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Bill Russell/19
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613851
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/25
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613852
Set Name : 2013 Upper Deck Tiger Woods Master Collection
Player Name : Tiger Woods PATCH AU/25/ Exquisite Rookie Patch
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Bringing this back.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by VIII

Quick question, does Buynicecard still have #87/99 in his position or did he sold it to someone else already? someone else is claiming to have that card.

I dont believe he ever owned 87. It was referred to in OPs original post. Eric owns #64 which downgraded to a 6 from a 9. That card should also be looked into.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Boo]

Originally Posted by theLUCKYshow

I dont believe he ever owned 87. It was referred to in OPs original post. Eric owns #64 which downgraded to a 6 from a 9. That card should also be looked into.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

"I bought #87 in the same collection raw and graded it BGS 9 when I received it and I recall it being a clean card and didn’t appear trimmed to me. I graded it promptly and it graded BGS 9. I stand by the fact that I did not trim either of these cards or have any involvement with someone else trimming the cards."

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by Boo

"I bought #87 in the same collection raw and graded it BGS 9 when I received it and I recall it being a clean card and didn’t appear trimmed to me. I graded it promptly and it graded BGS 9. I stand by the fact that I did not trim either of these cards or have any involvement with someone else trimming the cards."

Oh yeah hmm who owns #64 then? Sorry for messing that up.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[theLUCKYshow]

Wait, so Eric owns 64, 74, and 87? But now someone else says they own 87?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[VIII]

someone who has photo of #87/99 on their IG account claim that he has the card. I asked and he answered back today. So does Buynicecard have the card or is this guy a scam?

[Boo]

Originally Posted by VIII

someone who has photo of #87/99 on their IG account claim that he has the card. I asked and he answered back today. So does Buynicecard have the card or is this guy a scam?

"It has always been my goal to hold these cards as long as I possibly could and I think owning them for 5 years supports that. I never had any real intention of selling them and I still do not."

He claims he still has the card(s) so if this other guy really has it, then he's lying (again).

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by rysportguy

I think the biggest problem that has come out of this is that card grading services need to be better. The grade a card receives has a huge impact on its value and grading needs to be consistent. I don't know the answers for them specifically but they need to grade correctly and look out very closely for card alterations. They have made themselves the driving force of quality control in this industry and have made a lot of money doing so.

It's not right that cards can be graded differently based on the grader or his feelings that day. If they want to continue to have a reputation of being the standard for card quality grading then they need to make the necessary adjustments to keep the integrity of their grades.

Trimming and card bumping wouldn't exist if the card graders could fix these issues. They want to make all the money from being card grading companies so they really should fix this for their own benefit. I am relatively new to this hobby so I am not as well versed as most of you here but that is my biggest takeaway here.

Bumping will always exist. If you have a 9 why wouldn't you try for a 9.5??

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by cardsdownunder

Mates, i recently came across some troubling news for some LeBron Exquisite rookies /99. I know many collectors are not aware or up-to-date on the scambags of the hobby, so please forward these news for those looking to buy LeBron exquisite rookies!!

The first attachment is 87/99. It was owned by a collector for a long time then sold in March 2013 to someone on the forums. It reappeared with much nicer edges!!! See the damage on the black border on the left/right ungraded, then nice and clean on the BGS 9 grade.

THere is also an issue with this PSA 8 LeBron 40/99.

https://images.psacard.com/s3/cu-psa...745.jpg?h=1000

Look at the left on the black under the UD logo --- you can see a black marker line. I saw this card around 10 years ago in person and it had a large white scratch on it in that same place --- now it is gone.... I have a picture of it ungraded but cannot upload for some reason --- will keep attempting.


While I talk about this card I also want to remind people about old scambags --- lebron 53/99 was trimmed -- see old owner talk about it here - http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/view...a213c85d2d23ad

There is also some that are formerly grade BGS 9 but were later damaged. Card # 74/99 and 64/99 are examples of such.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/attach...3&d=1362028128

^^ see bottom left edge


Then there is #42/99 which I can't find old BO thread on, but was owned by a BO member. The patch window has slits on the top left and bottom right --- was graded Authentic by BGS. Haven't seen this one around in a while --- had a weak 3color patch and always suspected a donkey to try to fake the patch! Hope this isn't the sad case.

Also wanted to say card #63/99 was a one-color patch --- hopefully no one altered it. Just FYI/PSA that it was a one-clr -- I have no knowledge of it being faked... yet...

I don't have photograph proof of trimming for #75/99 and #61/99, but i can tell those are trimmed and know BGS graded them as altered... Public Service Announcement in case they are for sale or PSA grades them!!!

There is only one on ebay i think that is #50/99. This one has yellowing on parts of the card and faded auto --- but is not really advertised as such.....

Be better card community and help stop the scambags!!

Bump this for ease.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk