2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Second favorite graph. Can't wait to get a look at that 2020 COVID GDP number.

So, you choose to have a pissed off Iran working hard at developing nukes over a more relaxed Iran with no reason to blow Israel off the face of the Earth. Okay. Interesting choice.

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[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

If that's the play, we need to just invade them now. That's the outcome of that course if action, isn't it? It'll start with Israel or some other US ally and it'll end with a decade long war in the middle east that accomplishes the same thing we did in Iraq.

Personally, I'd rather go the diplomatic route.

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No American soldiers sacrificed. No death. Collapse of a terroristic regime both internally and externally without war.

That's the genius of Donald J. Trump. He want the diplomatic route; just without Iran, and that's why Obama failed. Obama insisted on including Iran in the deal, and Trump proved he never should have.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by techtre2003

I'll be honest. I read that article and was lost; I don't keep up with foreign politics. What's your takeaway here?

My guess on Trix's takeaway is that Trump stumbled into another peace agreement!

(It was not the primary objective but a secondary one as a result of Trump being Trump).

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

No American soldiers sacrificed. No death. Collapse of a terroristic regime both internally and externally without war.

That's the genius of Donald J. Trump. He want the diplomatic route; just without Iran, and that's why Obama failed. Obama insisted on including Iran in the deal, and Trump proved he never should have.

Except Iran is developing nukes as fast as they can now. That was the whole point, no?

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[chezball]

Originally Posted by cnewby

chez groupie.

groupie, more like CDS.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Except Iran is developing nukes as fast as they can now. That was the whole point, no?

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They were doing that with or without a deal. Don't you understand that?

You think Obama bought something w/ billions but he didn't. Iran is going to do what Iran wants to do. If all that money and that big beautiful deal did not stop or deter them from building nukes, then you think we should give them more money? More diplomacy? They're terrorists. Instead, contrary to what you believe, Trump admin worked with allies to apply extreme economical pressure through sanctions, while removing a few key pieces of the Iranian military and building peace agreements with Israel in the Middle East.

The bully at school demands $2 everyday so he doesn't beat you up. What happens when you pay him? The price goes up ...

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

My guess on Trix's takeaway is that Trump stumbled into another peace agreement!

(It was not the primary objective but a secondary one as a result of Trump being Trump).

If that's so I wouldn't necessarily argue against it. I think Trump is a smart guy but no where close to the genius he thinks he is. If that's how it fell into place then it is what it is; it's still a good thing correct?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

They were doing that with or without a deal. Don't you understand that?

You think Obama bought something w/ billions but he didn't. Iran is going to do what Iran wants to do. If all that money and that big beautiful deal did not stop or deter them from building nukes, then you think we should give them more money? More diplomacy? They're terrorists. Instead, contrary to what you believe, Trump admin worked with allies to apply extreme economical pressure through sanctions, while removing a few key pieces of the Iranian military and building peace agreements with Israel in the Middle East.

The bully at school demands $2 everyday so he doesn't beat you up. What happens when you pay him? The price goes up ...

Again, the JCPOA still exists. What are European nations doing now that it is out in the open that Iran is enriching it's Uranium and not allowing inspections per the terms of the deal?

Nothing. The agreement has/had no teeth of any kind and we knew that the day it was announced. "Please be nice" is the best we did and Trump came in and showed the world how to do it the right way.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by techtre2003

If that's so I wouldn't necessarily argue against it. I think Trump is a smart guy but no where close to the genius he thinks he is. If that's how it fell into place then it is what it is; it's still a good thing correct?

Yes, it's an absolutely good thing. The more countries that normalize relations with Israel; the more peace in the region there is; the fewer need for soldiers and war.

[techtre2003]

I'll preface this with my belief that I don't view conspiracy theories as a bad thing and while many of them can be out there I think some still carry at least some truth. So anyone open to reading a good conspiracy, I thought this one was interesting:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com...covid-19-fear/

[ensbergcollecto]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

This is a thought out response. I appreciate that. I disagree with it, but at least it is coherent and on issue.

The bungling of the pandemic response was obviously not all Trump, but he played a huge part in it. His denial of the severity of the problem from the start was clearly self-serving politically. We went four months without a briefing from his task force, and that task force was musical chairs, just like the rest of his administration.

Denying climate change goes way beyond the Paris Accord, which I agree we needed to pull out of. But we also need to start working on things like clean energy and other agreements with nations around the world. Climate change is real. It may not have meaningful effects for a while yet, but the sooner we get to figuring out our next move, the better. Denying its existence doesn't get us anywhere.

Heightened tensions and pissing off our friends you agree happened, but justifiably so in your mind. I'd say we could've accomplished the same things without making enemies.

And civil unrest...wow I thought that was indisputable. I'll grant that the media played a huge role, perhaps the largest role of all. But Trump sure did fan the flames. He's doing it right now by refusing to concede the election.


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I don't think for a second that trump did a great job on the pandemic. I think my difference is that I don't think anyone would have done a good job. I very much think that the media has swayed public perception more than most people want to address. This is one of those examples. The media has spent 9 months saying things like "trump is responsible for 250,000 deaths." I think he has done a decent job given he had half the states wanting no restrictions and half the states wanting to shut everything down.

The climate change, the us has been decreasing co2 even during trumps tenure. The issue for me is that he is fighting against the other side which wants the green new deal (no planes, all electric cars within 10 years, etc). He could have done more but he didn't send us in the wrong direction or anything.

Yes trump fans the flames, I will give you that. However, he seems to be the only one who takes any blame for it. No one is calling out anyone else for doing the same.


As for the election, I have avoided posting anything for the last month but I will give my thoughts. I think Biden won. While I don't know if there was large corruption, I do think there were a lot of sketchy stuff that went down.

Observers being sent home right before ballots are counted that swing 90% in one direction is suspicious even if it is on the up and up. A state being basically 50/50 but mail in ballots being 90/10 is suspicious. A few hundred thousand ballots being counted without observers from the other party is suspicious.

As I said, I think Biden won but I was be suspicious if I was trump too.

[techtre2003]

I got a good laugh from this (maybe NSFW):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=x7CxM1anfPE

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Again, the JCPOA still exists. What are European nations doing now that it is out in the open that Iran is enriching it's Uranium and not allowing inspections per the terms of the deal?



Nothing. The agreement has/had no teeth of any kind and we knew that the day it was announced. "Please be nice" is the best we did and Trump came in and showed the world how to do it the right way.

Except for the coming problems....

What has been accomplished? Is Iran playing nice now? Has Iran backed off its nuclear program? Is anything at all better than before?

Iran has gotten uppity, like all animals backed into a corner. I don't think Israel feels all cuddly about that. Our standing in the UN Security Council is weaker than ever over this, as our former friends aren't backing our play anymore. And Iran is cuddling up with China now, more than ever before. How is any of that good? By what measure is that success? Is it because Trump feels all macho now, like he stood up to a bully? Good job. I guess we'll have to fight the bully soon, right? Perhaps we should wait until they finish their nukes.

This crap about standing up to a bully is just schoolyard bravado. How about we try to stay out if a war instead?

I'll go with you on Obama not being stringent enough. And Trump's initial plan of bringing them back to the table on our terms was good in theory, but it didn't work. His gambit failed. They didn't come back to the table, they went to China's table instead.

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[Kingofkings1281]

Originally Posted by chezball

groupie, more like CDS.

In all honesty, you said something game changing/earth shattering was happening this week. I’m genuinely curious as to what it’s going to be.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by ensbergcollecto

I don't think for a second that trump did a great job on the pandemic. I think my difference is that I don't think anyone would have done a good job. I very much think that the media has swayed public perception more than most people want to address. This is one of those examples. The media has spent 9 months saying things like "trump is responsible for 250,000 deaths." I think he has done a decent job given he had half the states wanting no restrictions and half the states wanting to shut everything down.



The climate change, the us has been decreasing co2 even during trumps tenure. The issue for me is that he is fighting against the other side which wants the green new deal (no planes, all electric cars within 10 years, etc). He could have done more but he didn't send us in the wrong direction or anything.



Yes trump fans the flames, I will give you that. However, he seems to be the only one who takes any blame for it. No one is calling out anyone else for doing the same.





As for the election, I have avoided posting anything for the last month but I will give my thoughts. I think Biden won. While I don't know if there was large corruption, I do think there were a lot of sketchy stuff that went down.



Observers being sent home right before ballots are counted that swing 90% in one direction is suspicious even if it is on the up and up. A state being basically 50/50 but mail in ballots being 90/10 is suspicious. A few hundred thousand ballots being counted without observers from the other party is suspicious.



As I said, I think Biden won but I was be suspicious if I was trump too.

Fair enough.

I also don't think anyone wouldve been able to do a great job with the pandemic. It was a shytty situation. I think some would've done better than others though, and with the exception of operation warp speed (which likely would've been done by anyone, even a third grader), most of what Trump did was inadequate at best. That being said, I'm no fan of Cuomo either, and I'll admit Trump's hands were mostly tied with the governors. And yes, the media blames these deaths on him and that's not cool. Even though I believe many deaths could've been avoided, Trump didn't kill anybody. Covid did.

As for the Green New Deal, it's a turd. Pure and simple. It simply can't be done. Throw that crap out. But there is a middle ground between the overly ambitious, ridiculously expensive GND and doing pretty much nothing. Biden, to his credit, is somewhere on that middle ground, though I think he too is overly ambitious. I'd like to see a plan that moves us forward toward renewable energy that is even less robust than Biden's plan but still more than what we are doing now. I don't want to see us continue to ignore, downplay, or deny the problem.

The election...wowsers. I'm sure there were minor mistakes made. There always is. But I can't imagine some widespread conspiracy, despite my normal distrust of government. I'd like to see Trump concede, and after the transition a bipartisan group should take a look at improving the process. But in the here and now, it's time to move forward with Biden and stop frivolous challenges.

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[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Except for the coming problems....

What has been accomplished? Is Iran playing nice now? Has Iran backed off its nuclear program? Is anything at all better than before?

Yes, everything is so much better. Iran has no money to pay it's terrorist groups, Hezbollah has been deemed a terrorist orginization by many additional countries and fractioned off into pieces. The world and the region is a much safer place today than four years ago.

You, like others keep saying things like "problems are coming" and "consequences will happen" ... yet like others, I bet you can't state what those problems will be. You're just guessing, perhaps even hoping there are problems because it will be an opportunity to stick it to Trump. Only consequence so far is Iran shot down it's own citizens in the air. "Let's make a deal w/ the country that fired a missile on it's own people" is an interesting take.

There will be no coming problems. Only stability and peace. Bummer.

Or, as you suggest, perhaps we add "Pretty please" in the next Biden led deal and give Iran $50 billion so they can their terrorism cells up and running again. Surely, they'll do what we want then.

[trixstar]

You don’t even need to be a real state to join this apparently

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by trixstar

You don’t even need to be a real state to join this apparently

Pretty sure this kind of filing sums up the level of quality this suit has!

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by trixstar

You don’t even need to be a real state to join this apparently

I missed the formation of those new states. Now we need New Illinois.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

Fair enough.

I also don't think anyone wouldve been able to do a great job with the pandemic. It was a shytty situation. I think some would've done better than others though, and with the exception of operation warp speed (which likely would've been done by anyone, even a third grader), most of what Trump did was inadequate at best. That being said, I'm no fan of Cuomo either, and I'll admit Trump's hands were mostly tied with the governors. And yes, the media blames these deaths on him and that's not cool. Even though I believe many deaths could've been avoided, Trump didn't kill anybody. Covid did.

As for the Green New Deal, it's a turd. Pure and simple. It simply can't be done. Throw that crap out. But there is a middle ground between the overly ambitious, ridiculously expensive GND and doing pretty much nothing. Biden, to his credit, is somewhere on that middle ground, though I think he too is overly ambitious. I'd like to see a plan that moves us forward toward renewable energy that is even less robust than Biden's plan but still more than what we are doing now. I don't want to see us continue to ignore, downplay, or deny the problem.

The election...wowsers. I'm sure there were minor mistakes made. There always is. But I can't imagine some widespread conspiracy, despite my normal distrust of government. I'd like to see Trump concede, and after the transition a bipartisan group should take a look at improving the process. But in the here and now, it's time to move forward with Biden and stop frivolous challenges.

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The Democrats actually had some good ideas in H.R. 1 that they passed in the House but then they had to add things like D.C. becoming a state and registering 16 year olds to vote so there was no chance for it to pass in the Senate.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by chezball

Originally Posted by chezball

You know that thing about a horse and water, same thing with facts.

Meme post + the above post = priceless

Thanks for being delusional you chezball.

Citizens of Beatoff are glad to have you, and so are we.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by trixstar

You don’t even need to be a real state to join this apparently

New California borders have not been finalized per disclaimer:

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Yes, everything is so much better. Iran has no money to pay it's terrorist groups, Hezbollah has been deemed a terrorist orginization by many additional countries and fractioned off into pieces. The world and the region is a much safer place today than four years ago.

You, like others keep saying things like "problems are coming" and "consequences will happen" ... yet like others, I bet you can't state what those problems will be. You're just guessing, perhaps even hoping there are problems because it will be an opportunity to stick it to Trump. Only consequence so far is Iran shot down it's own citizens in the air. "Let's make a deal w/ the country that fired a missile on it's own people" is an interesting take.

There will be no coming problems. Only stability and peace. Bummer.

Or, as you suggest, perhaps we add "Pretty please" in the next Biden led deal and give Iran $50 billion so they can their terrorism cells up and running again. Surely, they'll do what we want then.

When did I say we should buddy up to them? Is this the part where you stoop to putting words in my mouth? C'mon.

We make deals with everyone. It's what politics is.

You seem to think it's either full on screw them or hey, come over for dinner, buddy. There is a middle ground, one that is less likely to lead us into disaster. Ask Israel how they feel about Iran puffing up. You see peace over there?? Lol, c'mon. No you don't, unless you're blind.

There will be no disaster. Biden is going to fix it. Sadly, he is going to bend over and take it from behind, but at least he isn't going to force Iran to go to war, which you know is the next logical step. What do you figure Iran will do? Do you think they're going to apologize and beg for forgiveness?

Your blind devotion to Trump is unsettling sometimes. I'm not sure I've ever seen you admit he hasn't been perfect. Let me ask you, has he ever, in his whole life, made a single mistake?

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[techtre2003]

Caravans round II. Now we'll see how Biden handles it.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-new-m...en-11607618203

[trixstar]

Originally Posted by techtre2003

Caravans round II. Now we'll see how Biden handles it.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-new-m...en-11607618203

Open the borders and fill the districts of the congressmen who signed on to this idiotic lawsuit