PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[pip]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

Well, unless the card was glued back together or the crease was pressed out, it wouldn't really be Altered. It would just be highly overgraded. Maybe a 3.5 if PSA noticed the folded over corner? That doesn't mean it shouldn't be sent back to PSA under their grade guarantee and have them reduce the grade and pay the difference between a 3.5 and whatever the 6 sells for.

You forgot the accidental surface damage above Shore's eye when the card molester was altering it.

[pip]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

I think for the scope of this investigation, given the limited resources, it was easier for FBI to look at only the most egregious alterations. I suspect from the point of view of being able to bring this to prosecutors, if it even gets there, they needed to focus on the incredibly obvious. As it is the agent in charge has his hands more than full and not sure he would be able to look at every card that had wrinkles removed. He would be investigating for two lifetimes. Jeff is also good at his job and sure he had a hand in raising the bar on what is deemed an alteration.

At one point I was told that even the grading companies cannot agree on what is deemed an alteration and reading between the lines I took that to mean that TPGs have definitions of what an alteration is yet they holder cards that have evidence of being altered. Think that poses a real uphill battle for prosecutors.

It would not shock me if PSA had some input in this too. It is certainly in their best interest to have less cards or fewer types of alterations brought to light.

Maybe, but check out the following profiles on PSA's own website:

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...eve-van-maanen

And the following quotes from two of the top graders:

I [Reza Tabatabai] hope that they will be pleased with my work no matter how their card grades. I always want them to know that, whether they agree with my grading or not, I approach every card with the highest level of care, experience and fairness.

Steve [Van Maanen] says that while PSA graders are trained to grade cards from virtually all eras, each individual grader has developed their own area of expertise and are assigned cards based on their strengths. "When we receive cards, they are distributed to graders based on their particular skill and expertise.

Once Steve determines that the card is authentic, he then checks it for any possible alterations. A card's condition is of course, one of the utmost importance and, knowing this, "card doctors", as they are called, will do what they can to enhance the condition of cards by the use of ink to correct imperfections or wear, scissors and razors to eliminate worn edges as well as other techniques.

After a card is deemed to be unaltered by Steve's well-trained eye, the actual grading process begins. At PSA, every card that is submitted is graded by a minimum of two graders.

Using PSA's universally accepted grading scale; Steve focuses on various characteristics of the card such as the crispness of the corners, color, edges, centering, surface, print clarity and overall eye appeal.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

you know what im talking about

It's more collusion and therefore how high up does the conspiring go?

If this were about taking down "grunts at the front", then those who are investigating will do their due diligence. If this is about higher end crime with those involved being somebody within a collusion, then it would probably end up with somebody walking away from their position rather than being brought up on charges. Grunts at the front take the fall while those connected at the top, slither their way out of the court system.

It's as fair as sincerity.

Beckett had issues in the mid 90's to roughly 98 but had to sweep out those who colluded. It happens but we forgive and move forward.

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Beckett had issues in the mid 90's to roughly 98 but had to sweep out those who colluded. It happens but we forgive and move forward.

Not all of us.

[CaptSpaulding]

I do not check his auction results so not sure if the email is spin or not but check out the screen cap. Record Prices Continue while under investigation just like PSA has record submissions during the same time period.

[ken161]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

I do not check his auction results so not sure if the email is spin or not but check out the screen cap. Record Prices Continue while under investigation just like PSA has record submissions during the same time period.

Joe Orlando is singing the same tune. A recent tweet was crowing about the "hot market."

PSA is a hobby Chernobyl. I really hope they go belly up.


https://twitter.com/JoeOrlandoPSA/st...71551932981249

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

I do not check his auction results so not sure if the email is spin or not but check out the screen cap. Record Prices Continue while under investigation just like PSA has record submissions during the same time period.

Interestingly, in Joe Orlando's most recent "Taking My Hacks" crapola commentary, it's almost like it was wrote by Brent himself.

The Power, and Lack Thereof, of Eye Appeal
https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...eof-eye-appeal

[Bruins1993]

Originally Posted by ken161

Joe Orlando is singing the same tune. A recent tweet was crowing about the "hot market."

PSA is a hobby Chernobyl. I really hope they go belly up.


https://twitter.com/JoeOrlandoPSA/st...71551932981249

https://twitter.com/JoeOrlandoPSA/st...27624348188672



I can't tell if the area annotated is color added or a print defect. Is this card a 9 or 10?

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by auburn35

Interestingly, in Joe Orlando's most recent "Taking My Hacks" crapola commentary, it's almost like it was wrote by Brent himself.

The Power, and Lack Thereof, of Eye Appeal
https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...eof-eye-appeal

Why on earth would anyone still be listening to this corrupt a-hole, much less take advice from him? These self-serving ramblings represent the most meaningless and condescending rhetoric to pollute the internet.

I feel deep sympathy for Joe's cellmate-to-be, and hope he's a very patient man.

[pip]

1941 Playball cards are commonly oversized. Those edges don't look original to me on the 1941 Dimaggio. The card is also a little smaller L-R than most other cards in that series. It screams "altered."

[Bruins1993]

SGC cert 3102611

1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle #253

This card was purchased by w***1 from pwcc_auctions (eBay) on 11/11/2018 for $4,449.00
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1849193

Same card was sold by pwcc_auctions (eBay) as a SGC 3 on 5/9/2019 for $6,135.00
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1975092

+$1,686.00

Yellow circles are print mark, chipping, or paper fiber matching identifiers.

Red square identifies evidence of altered edge.

Purple square identifies area that may have alteration to crease/color. Card should be examined in hand.

NOTE: signification amount of wax was removed from reverse. What methods remove that much wax?

[MoreToppsPlease]

I’d guess hydrogen peroxide or earwax remover

[Aquarian Sports]

Any BODA members look into Crazy Uncle yet?

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports

Any BODA members look into Crazy Uncle yet?

Whoa....

I am not loving the right edge of Mantle or the "Bat Ears" on Aaron. And those PSA slabs scare me as well. Might be worthy of a second look.

[ThoseBackPages]

nice pickups Uncle!

[wcardguy]

Originally Posted by pip

1941 Playball cards are commonly oversized. Those edges don't look original to me on the 1941 Dimaggio. The card is also a little smaller L-R than most other cards in that series. It screams "altered."

Yeah the 41s are usually more squarish than that card. That one's much more a modern rectangle. Plus, you know, the gaping spaces between the edges of the holder on each side. Someone hacked that card to hell.

Honestly I would be surprised if any 41 ever has ever had those razor corners either, I doubt the ones out of the original press in 1941 were that sharp. In particular there's something about that top left corner that's off.

[wcardguy]

Lotta zeros leading off those Uncle cards, they've been in holders a long time.

[cking]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

I’d guess hydrogen peroxide or earwax remover

What does that do to a card long term....condition wise?

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by cking

What does that do to a card long term....condition wise?

eats it

[cking]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

eats it

Do you think it makes the card brittle or could it discolor the card after a few years?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by cking

Do you think it makes the card brittle or could it discolor the card after a few years?

He’s trolling you here - hydrogen peroxide breaks down to water and oxygen and is generally considered the safest oxidizing bleach, especially when diluted with water. There could be pH issues but this can easily be mitigated.

I found all this out with a quick search.

[salthill]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

He’s trolling you here - hydrogen peroxide breaks down to water and oxygen and is generally considered the safest oxidizing bleach, especially when diluted with water.

I still wouldn’t drink a shot of it though.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by salthill

I still wouldn’t drink a shot of it though.

Heh, I’m no doctor, but there are many articles on this as well. Unless you’re drinking a lot of it/ODing on it, it won’t require a hospital visit.

Now back to altered slabbed cards....

[cking]

Originally Posted by salthill

I still wouldn’t drink a shot of it though.

I bet it does not taste very good

[ken161]

Is it my imagination, or has the Blowout Detective Agency been very quiet the last week or so? I'm thinking another high-profile card doctor may be about to go down.