2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Smoking can cause cancer. I believe that is fact, yes?

Saying "I WON" and "Look at this vote dump at 3am" and "Rigged election" to my knowledge, does not cause violence, civil war, or physical pain. No proven link yet but I guess the science is still out.

Look, I know you’ll never admit it, but you know you’ve argued yourself into a corner with your “words don’t matter” nonsense.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-up...ooting-suspect

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What is it that Trump said that caused this event to occur? Do you have the speech or the tweet available?

[discostu]

Originally Posted by free2131

You're arguing in bad faith. You know exactly what the two arrested had to do with politics. You know why people are getting death threats and threats of violence who are involved in swing states and vote tabulation.

Other than straight numbers, almost everything he posts in this thread is in bad faith.

It's his MO.

Speaking of...NeedChapmans, where again is that federal law you were so certain about regarding timelines on the delivery of ballots? I believe you stated that "the law is clear," when I think you meant to say, "the law is clearly non-existent."

Enquiring minds, like mine, want to know.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

Look, I know you’ll never admit it, but you know you’ve argued yourself into a corner with your “words don’t matter” nonsense.

Absolutely not. I stand by it 100%. Failed attempts to try and connect violence to Donald Trump is only proving my point.

People just throwing links at the wall, hoping something sticks. But still waiting for the first person to come in here and say "Donald Trump said this ... and this happened because of it"

Not one.

[fungi2510]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

No I don't. Never heard of these two people and there is no reference in the article you provided that says it has anything to do w/ politics. It doesn't even mention the election or Trump. It's just "two men arrested".

Also, I do know why people are getting death threats. Because people are crazy. Donald Trump has not incited violence or said anything even remotely close to that. He's just being a selfish tool venting on Twitter. If you draw the conclusion of him saying "FOX News should never have called Arizona" to the SOS in the state getting death threats, thank God you are not in the legal field.

If you want me to believe his words have consequences, you have to show me which words. What did he say that caused Katie Hobbs to get death threats? Spell it out.

You are a bit worked up today. For a week or so, you were actually making sense with your level-headedness. Now you have jumped the shark again. You know that words have effect. History is riddled with examples of leaders emboldening people to commit atrocities in their name. Some long ago, some much more recent. I do think that Trump's comment to the "Proud Boys" during the debate is a small example. He was telling a group to be ready. Yes, it was vague, but it had to be. He cannot come out and tell them to be ready at polling places to try to bully potential Biden voters into leaving, but the underground is already there. So he gets to be vague, you can go and say, "Oh, but he didn't give them directives so words DON'T matter" and still accomplish his goal. Words/Tweets matter.

[NeedChapmans]

Not once, to my knowledge, has President Trump ever said anything to incite violence. Stupid things, dumb things, crazy theories ... but if you want to attribute his words to violence, the least someone could do is tell me what he said and what happened.

"I WON" and then posting a link to someone getting arrested for a gun charge in a random state for a random offense is not that.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by fungi2510

You are a bit worked up today. For a week or so, you were actually making sense with your level-headedness. Now you have jumped the shark again. You know that words have effect. History is riddled with examples of leaders emboldening people to commit atrocities in their name. Some long ago, some much more recent. I do think that Trump's comment to the "Proud Boys" during the debate is a small example. He was telling a group to be ready. Yes, it was vague, but it had to be. He cannot come out and tell them to be ready at polling places to try to bully potential Biden voters into leaving, but the underground is already there. So he gets to be vague, you can go and say, "Oh, but he didn't give them directives so words DON'T matter" and still accomplish his goal. Words/Tweets matter.

See this is the crazy again.

What atrocities have been committed? Yes history has them. Trump doesn't.

[mike1498]

If you think violence is because of trump, you must also think guns shoot people. I guess the russians also caused Trump to win the election in 2016 and voter fraud caused Biden to win in 2020.

While we can make a very small argument for all those cases, the real answer is quite obvious. I'm not saying they have a 0% influence, but lets step back and really think about what we're saying here.

[fungi2510]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

See this is the crazy again.

What atrocities have been committed? Yes history has them. Trump doesn't.

I am not saying ANY have been committed, but isn't this the point where it is important to recognize how things quickly go from "silly, dumb statements" to outright evil? Hitler definitely did not start with making statements like "Let's exterminate the Jews." He worked his way up. I am NOT saying Trump is Hitler, but I am saying that we cannot accept this. It will not end well.

[fungi2510]

Originally Posted by mike1498

If you think violence is because of trump, you must also think guns shoot people. I guess the russians also caused Trump to win the election in 2016 and voter fraud caused Biden to win in 2020.

While we can make a very small argument for all those cases, the real answer is quite obvious. I'm not saying they have a 0% influence, but lets step back and really think about what we're saying here.

On the flip side, if you do not think that leaders influence violence, you need to step back and re-evaluate.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by fungi2510

On the flip side, if you do not think that leaders influence violence, you need to step back and re-evaluate.

Has trump made you more violent? Or are you conscious enough to realize he spits **** out of his ass.

I will go as far to say he creates tension, but he doesn't make me get out of my bed to go harm someone.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Absolutely not. I stand by it 100%. Failed attempts to try and connect violence to Donald Trump is only proving my point.

People just throwing links at the wall, hoping something sticks. But still waiting for the first person to come in here and say "Donald Trump said this ... and this happened because of it"

Not one.

Your resolve is cute in a sociopathic way.

[mike1498]

Honestly I hate how much both sides overracted.

So far we're supposed to have had a coup, complete chaos and partially owned by Russia.

If you don't already know, I'm not a fan of Trump and didn't even vote for him but you really lose credibility if you think a mentally stable person woke up today and caused harm because Trump said so.

People are idiots, I'm not discrediting that. They didn't just become idiots four years ago. They were idiots and just used whatever person is in charge to take advantage of the situation. Anarchists do it every time during BLM rallies too. Does BLM create violence or is it the individuals that believe that causing violence somehow accelerates progression cause violence?

I'm not saying there is 0 correlation, I'm just saying the more obvious answer is right in front of you.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by fungi2510

I am not saying ANY have been committed, but isn't this the point where it is important to recognize how things quickly go from "silly, dumb statements" to outright evil? Hitler definitely did not start with making statements like "Let's exterminate the Jews." He worked his way up. I am NOT saying Trump is Hitler, but I am saying that we cannot accept this. It will not end well.

Hitler is the center space on the Trump bingo card.

And it will end just fine. The fear peddling has got to stop.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

What is it that Trump said that caused this event to occur? Do you have the speech or the tweet available?

He told unmarked feds to go into Portland and quell an uprising.

Pretty sure those words and others like them encouraged nutjobs to do their thing. The Kenosha clown was one of them.

Seriously, there is no need to waste time on this nonsense, NC. Repeatedly saying "I don't see it" or "show me the words" isn't fooling anybody.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by fungi2510

You are a bit worked up today. For a week or so, you were actually making sense with your level-headedness. Now you have jumped the shark again. You know that words have effect. History is riddled with examples of leaders emboldening people to commit atrocities in their name. Some long ago, some much more recent. I do think that Trump's comment to the "Proud Boys" during the debate is a small example. He was telling a group to be ready. Yes, it was vague, but it had to be. He cannot come out and tell them to be ready at polling places to try to bully potential Biden voters into leaving, but the underground is already there. So he gets to be vague, you can go and say, "Oh, but he didn't give them directives so words DON'T matter" and still accomplish his goal. Words/Tweets matter.

Well said.

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[Astros19]

Since we've covered some of the non examples of violence Trump has instigated over the last few pages can we switch things up take a peek at the other side for a while?
Shall we start with Portland, Minneapolis, Ferguson or somewhere else?

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[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

He told unmarked feds to go into Portland and quell an uprising.

Pretty sure those words and others like them encouraged nutjobs to do their thing. The Kenosha clown was one of them.

Seriously, there is no need to waste time on this nonsense, NC. Repeatedly saying "I don't see it" or "show me the words" isn't fooling anybody.

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A good chance that "Kenosha clown" becomes a multi-millionaire from lawsuits.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

He told unmarked feds to go into Portland and quell an uprising.

Pretty sure those words and others like them encouraged nutjobs to do their thing. The Kenosha clown was one of them.

Seriously, there is no need to waste time on this nonsense, NC. Repeatedly saying "I don't see it" or "show me the words" isn't fooling anybody.

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So you want to look at reactions while complete ignoring the actions that brought about the reactions?
How very Rachel of you.

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[mike1498]

Just out of curiosity, who in this thread has become more violent specifically because of Trump?

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Has trump made you more violent? Or are you conscious enough to realize he spits **** out of his ass.



I will go as far to say he creates tension, but he doesn't make me get out of my bed to go harm someone.

Tension. That's a good word for it.

Is tension good?

What about tension in the minds of people like the Kenosha shooter? How about the BLM rioters? How about the BLM anti-rioters (is that a word? You know who I mean). What about the millions of unstable Americans out there that don't handle tension well?

You aren't going to go harm someone. Do you think all Americans are as stable as you? I don't.

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[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

Your resolve is cute in a sociopathic way.

I sit here; going about my work day, picking up the kids, making dinner, getting ready to visit the family for Thanksgiving; while an apparent government takeover is on the brink. Civil war getting ready to break out as Trump armies prepare to gather weapons and storm capital buildings across the country on his ready.

OR not. I've asked for a simple piece of information. Something Trump has said, and because it was said, X happened. It's a very simple request, not in bad faith as Stu loves to claim. I mean; tens of thousands of tweets, hundreds of press conferences and still, nobody willing to step up to offer something that happened as a result of Trumps words?

I find that almost impossible to believe considering the ferocity with which many are arguing that his words have caused countless amounts of destruction, violence and chaos. And will continue to cause these things. People here don't even leave open the possibility that all will be well, no. It is a guarantee that chaos will reign upon us.

Chapmans. Fiction. 3rd aisle next to Orwell.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Since we've covered some of the non examples of violence Trump has instigated over the last few pages can we switch things up take a peek at the other side for a while?
Shall we start with Portland, Minneapolis, Ferguson or somewhere else?

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Those were actions, not words. Words are completely decoupled from actions and therefore have no bearing on them.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Astros19

So you want to look at reactions while complete ignoring the actions that brought about the reactions?
How very Rachel of you.

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Why thank you. : ). That makes me happy.

Nothing happened in Portland that called for federal henchmen to intervene. A conservative should know that. Local officials handle these things.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I sit here; going about my work day, picking up the kids, making dinner, getting ready to visit the family for Thanksgiving; while an apparent government takeover is on the brink. Civil war getting ready to break out as Trump armies prepare to gather weapons and storm capital buildings across the country on his ready.



OR not. I've asked for a simple piece of information. Something Trump has said, and because it was said, X happened. It's a very simple request, not in bad faith as Stu loves to claim. I mean; tens of thousands of tweets, hundreds of press conferences and still, nobody willing to step up to offer something that happened as a result of Trumps words?



I find that almost impossible to believe considering the ferocity with which many are arguing that his words have caused countless amounts of destruction, violence and chaos. And will continue to cause these things. People here don't even leave open the possibility that all will be well, no. It is a guarantee that chaos will reign upon us.



Chapmans. Fiction. 3rd aisle next to Orwell.

You've been given plenty of examples.

Trump said stupid stuff. Trump got voted out.

If civil war isn't going to happen is your stance, I agree. If violence has been rare among Trump followers is your stance, I agree. But if Trump's nonsense doesn't cause problems is your stance, I'm going to part ways with that nonsense with the quickness.

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