2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[Astros19]

Fill me in, at what age does personal responsibility kick in?

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[thenwhatjk]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Fill me in, at what age does personal responsibility kick in?

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Upon conception

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by thenwhatjk

Upon conception

[yanksfan1]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

The country had a chance at this when Bush proposed it in 2005 ... and it failed. Republican donors spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to get this very idea across the political spectrum and it was a terrible waste of money.
The '05 Bush SOTU was heavy in Social Security reform and IRA contributions / savings accounts / individual choice.

Never had a chance. Ironically, with just six days to go in his presidency, Bush said his greatest achievement (sad really) was getting the debate started about SS reform.

Isn't this part of what contributed to the Dems taking both the House and Senate in the 2006 midterms?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by yanksfan1

Isn't this part of what contributed to the Dems taking both the House and Senate in the 2006 midterms?

That is a hypothesis, yes. It was portrayed as an attack on social security; a threat to end the program altogether and one could argue it had an impact on the '06 mid-terms. There was plenty to go after Bush for by then, hard to really pin down the top reasons.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Fill me in, at what age does personal responsibility kick in?

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Exactly, I didn't know we are forcing all this poor kids to go to college, let alone one that costs $150-200k for a degree. You can go to a state school for under $15k/yr if you commute. Also everything is online now so I'm sure you can even go cheaper. Also plenty of jobs that pay decent don't need a college degree.

[yanksfan1]

https://twitter.com/nakashimae/statu...554747393?s=20

Georgia SOS says Republicans, including Lindsey Graham, have been pressuring him behind the scenes to find ways to toss out legal ballots.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by yanksfan1

https://twitter.com/nakashimae/statu...554747393?s=20

Georgia SOS says Republicans, including Lindsey Graham, have been pressuring him behind the scenes to find ways to toss out legal ballots.

I smell a resistance hero in the making!

[NeedChapmans]

Just a friendly reminder that we had an election two weeks ago and states like PA, NY and CA are no where close to declaring winners in some local / federal races.

Manhattan still has hundreds of thousands of votes outstanding.

[yanksfan1]

If you needed any more proof Biden will only serve one term, a close political associate of his, Terry McAuliffe is going to run for governor of VA again (he was governor from 2014-2017) as it would position him to run for president as a sitting elected official

https://www.axios.com/mcauliffe-come...m_content=1100

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Wade Mulroy

I think for me, it goes into the 'responsibility' lessons we learn as we mature. As NC stated, if you agree to loan terms you have an obligation to pay it back.



It's easy to argue that forgiving the burden will allow this money to be spent wisely within the economy and help promote the future growth of our country. It's also easy to see how an entire generation of young adults skipping the lessons on budgeting, saving, planning, etc. can have dangerous implications for the future. I also realize many of our large corporations also seem to have skipped these lessons



I realize our national debt is already in the drain and it may be a moot point in 2020; but as a Finance professional this whole idea causes a bit of concern. I completely understand the argument and the potential positives, but I can't help but be concerned.

Yeah, I can agree with this, on pretty much every point made.

The debt/deficit issue is scary, given our current situation. We're already walking a tightrope on that front. Its certainly a complex issue. Again, for me the positive impacts of moving toward more accessible higher education (which is as necessary today as high school was in the 70s) are the most important aspect of the discussion.

If we had been more fiscally responsible as a nation over the last decade, this would be a much easier question.

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[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Boo

Exactly, I didn't know we are forcing all this poor kids to go to college, let alone one that costs $150-200k for a degree. You can go to a state school for under $15k/yr if you commute. Also everything is online now so I'm sure you can even go cheaper. Also plenty of jobs that pay decent don't need a college degree.

This.

I went to Community College night school for two years, lol. It cost under $2k per year including books. Then I found an employer that offered tuition reimbursement to get through state university the next two years. It took longer than four years altogether to get through, but I simply had no other options.

Still, even though it's been possible to get through school without taking on loads of debt, it's never been easy. I'd like the next generation to have it better than we did.


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[irv]

Already posted?

https://twitter.com/billmaher/status...78205733687297

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I don't get this attitude of "Where's mine?" I mean, we treat new diseases and even cure them. Do those who suffered from them say, "Hey I fought the disease and won even if it cost me cash and time, you should do the same!"

I’m not sure I’m down with your analogy. I think there’s a distinction between medical innovation treating a disease you never signed up for and the government forgiving a debt that you did sign up for.

I’m very in the middle on this... in one of my posts I mentioned having six figures in student loan debt now under $20k. I’m not saying “where’s mine?” but I have no argument against a post like Wade’s... dude made numerous sacrifices to clear the debt, and those after him got the magic wand treatment from the government (in this hypothetical).

I think clean slate debt forgiveness is off the table. Just too many opposed to it. And I think some degree of accountability needs to be put in place in any sort of debt forgiveness program just as a teaching lesson. But I 100% agree the amount of debt students are stuck with these days is absurd, and I think for the betterment of the country we need to address college costs and help those who are totally F’d with student loan debt begin to un-F themselves. I’m rooting for everyone in this case.

[Boo]

I'm ok with forgiving 10% up to 10k, we shouldn't be in the business of bailing people out for stupid decisions.

[Fratboy]

Originally Posted by irv

Already posted?

https://twitter.com/billmaher/status...78205733687297

I watched his show the other night... New Rules was on point

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Fill me in, at what age does personal responsibility kick in?

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This counters something I brought up about a distinction between the debt you take on in your 30s (and later) and the debt you take on pursuing college at 16/17. I have no great rebuttal because you’re not wrong with where you’re going with this.

It’s been brought up in some of these posts and I mentioned it months ago as well... a personal finance course should be mandatory in every public high school. That would help eliminate the “I had no idea wtf i was doing” excuse.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

This counters something I brought up about a distinction between the debt you take on in your 30s (and later) and the debt you take on pursuing college at 16/17. I have no great rebuttal because you’re not wrong with where you’re going with this.



It’s been brought up in some of these posts and I mentioned it months ago as well... a personal finance course should be mandatory in every public high school. That would help eliminate the “I had no idea wtf i was doing” excuse.

The college debt problem didn't just start in the last year or two, its been a problem for a while now.
If young people, and their parents, are just figuring it out now, too bad so sad.

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[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by Boo

I'm ok with forgiving 10% up to 10k, we shouldn't be in the business of bailing people out for stupid decisions.

I normally would agree but again, student loans aren't like other types of debt and it's the government/parents/society that helped contribute to this issue. We don't educate our young about finances. Tuition costs are out of control because the school knows they are going to get paid regardless of what they charge. The government is completely clueless and only causes more issues than they help.

Honestly, kids shouldn't be able to sign for loans until they are 21 or they pass some kind of financial literacy test. If the parent wants to take a loan on behalf of the kid then so be it. How many of us did stupid, stupid, stupid things when we were in high school? How many of us then had to pay on those stupid mistakes for 20+ years?

Let's take a look at something like a nurse. They accrue tens of thousands of debt even if they go to a state school. They get paid $50-$75k for something that is very technical, difficult, tiring, and thankless. People like that deserve to catch a break, especially now. Under normal circumstances, I'd say let them live and learn, but these loans are predatory and are given to people who don't know or understand what they are signing.

Maybe it's an empathy thing, but I feel for those who are living with crushing student loans. The consumer in me also would love to see people be able to spend more in the economy rather than it go to the government/banks, but mostly government ($1.5 trillion gov't to $119 billion private). Think of what $1 trillion entering the economy would look like, what that would feel like. Houses, cars, consumer, so on and so forth.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by Astros19

The college debt problem didn't just start in the last year or two, its been a problem for a while now.
If young people, and their parents, are just figuring it out now, too bad so sad.

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Love the empathy. Some people just don't know any better, don't have access to the knowledge, or have no real other way to obtain a college degree.

[yanksfan1]

Originally Posted by irv

Already posted?

https://twitter.com/billmaher/status...78205733687297

Bill Maher's closings are usually fantastic imo

[Fratboy]

Originally Posted by yanksfan1

Bill Maher's closings are usually fantastic imo

He dogs out anyone and everyone, to be sure...
He's 100% correct, on the "Woke/PC" Dem problem, as well.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

I normally would agree but again, student loans aren't like other types of debt and it's the government/parents/society that helped contribute to this issue. We don't educate our young about finances. Tuition costs are out of control because the school knows they are going to get paid regardless of what they charge. The government is completely clueless and only causes more issues than they help.



Honestly, kids shouldn't be able to sign for loans until they are 21 or they pass some kind of financial literacy test. If the parent wants to take a loan on behalf of the kid then so be it. How many of us did stupid, stupid, stupid things when we were in high school? How many of us then had to pay on those stupid mistakes for 20+ years?



Let's take a look at something like a nurse. They accrue tens of thousands of debt even if they go to a state school. They get paid $50-$75k for something that is very technical, difficult, tiring, and thankless. People like that deserve to catch a break, especially now. Under normal circumstances, I'd say let them live and learn, but these loans are predatory and are given to people who don't know or understand what they are signing.



Maybe it's an empathy thing, but I feel for those who are living with crushing student loans. The consumer in me also would love to see people be able to spend more in the economy rather than it go to the government/banks, but mostly government ($1.5 trillion gov't to $119 billion private). Think of what $1 trillion entering the economy would look like, what that would feel like. Houses, cars, consumer, so on and so forth.

This is an interesting argument.

I understand the point, but what about other types of predatory lending? And what is government's place in stopping it, if any? This is some fundamental left vs right thinking here. Both sides of this issue have some validity, imo.

I try to temper my instinct to think "screw em, nobody gave a dang thing to me" with my desire to leave the world better than we found it. In reality, it's not an easy decision either way.

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[rman112]

Originally Posted by discostu

Both great examples.

Seems to me like you already knew there were examples when you asked the original question.

[NeedChapmans]

Guys, are we all aware that Georgia just found 2,600 additional ballots that were not counted the first time around from Floyd county (that give Trump a ~+850 vote margin).

WTF. The kind of thing that would have made Gore president in 2000. Madness.