PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc - Page 25

KhalDrogo · 05-08-2019, 05:02 PM

Betsy sent me a response on eBay stating that they would be reaching out to the buyer of the Musial to offer a refund.

CaptSpaulding · 05-08-2019, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Betsy sent me a response on eBay stating that they would be reaching out to the buyer of the Musial to offer a refund.

They may as well offer refunds to all the buyers of any card they sold that was part of the submission the Musial was in as well as all other cards they have submitted for known card doctors.

So now to keep them honest it is our responsibility to show before and after pics? Maybe they should stop submitting cards for known card doctors and stickering them as HE and PQ? Just a suggestion.

And for the record, I bet they do not reach out to the buyer.

KhalDrogo · 05-08-2019, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

And for the record, I bet they do not reach out to the buyer.

I think they will. But only because this is public now. I have not seen an example where they have proactively done so, although maybe they have and we are unaware.

The consequence if they fake reaching out to these buyer's is future exposure of their lie. I don't think they're dumb enough to do that. If they didn't want to reach out, they simply wouldn't respond.

matthewevan · 05-09-2019, 08:44 AM

I usually just lurk- and don’t post. But wow. This was super informative thread. And I was actually thinking about buying that PWCC mantle. Thanks for all of the great info folks!

superdan49 · 05-09-2019, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewevan

I usually just lurk- and don’t post. But wow. This was super informative thread. And I was actually thinking about buying that PWCC mantle. Thanks for all of the great info folks!

One of my summer projects will be to examine every publicly-sold 1952 Topps Mantle graded in the last 5 years. I will do paper fiber comparison analysis as was done here to see how many have been conserved, restored, altered, graded differently, etc. I honestly have no idea what the results will yield, but this can be done.

ThoseBackPages · 05-09-2019, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

One of my summer projects will be to examine every publicly-sold 1952 Topps Mantle graded in the last 5 years. I will do paper fiber comparison analysis as was done here to see how many have been conserved, restored, altered, graded differently, etc. I honestly have no idea what the results will yield, but this can be done.

that is awesome! how many total copies have been sold publicly since 2014? and how many raw/slabbed?

superdan49 · 05-09-2019, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

that is awesome! how many total copies have been sold publicly since 2014? and how many raw/slabbed?

Hundreds of copies, just based on data from Vintage Card Prices alone. I plan on setting up an imgur account with all the photos so Blowout members can attack the project together.

Was going to do this with 2011 Topps Update Gold Trouts, but I think the '52 Topps Mantle will be more impactful.

NoleinJax · 05-09-2019, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qdoggmets

Press
Wash
Cut
Consign

Excellent

rainmaker · 05-09-2019, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Hundreds of copies, just based on data from Vintage Card Prices alone. I plan on setting up an imgur account with all the photos so Blowout members can attack the project together.

Was going to do this with 2011 Topps Update Gold Trouts, but I think the '52 Topps Mantle will be more impactful.

this could shake things up quite a bit!

gopherfan · 05-09-2019, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qdoggmets

Please
Wait
Can
Clarify

Pre
War
Card
Conservationists

NoleinJax · 05-09-2019, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Hundreds of copies, just based on data from Vintage Card Prices alone. I plan on setting up an imgur account with all the photos so Blowout members can attack the project together.

Was going to do this with 2011 Topps Update Gold Trouts, but I think the '52 Topps Mantle will be more impactful.

I think both would be impactful for different reasons, but you already do so much so I don't blame you for focusing on one. Thank you for all that you and the other members of The BODA do.

Deadshot · 05-09-2019, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

One of my summer projects will be to examine every publicly-sold 1952 Topps Mantle graded in the last 5 years. I will do paper fiber comparison analysis as was done here to see how many have been conserved, restored, altered, graded differently, etc. I honestly have no idea what the results will yield, but this can be done.

This could be huge. Comparing them all without serial numbers will be tough. I'd break them down and start with the noticable marks on the back. Split the surface area up and set up an album for the different quadrants. There will be some overlap but otherwise this project could be like trying to eat an elephant with a fork and a knife.

KhalDrogo · 05-09-2019, 11:47 AM

Does anyone have a general timeline of what serial numbers were being used by PSA?

superdan49 · 05-09-2019, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadshot

This could be huge. Comparing them all without serial numbers will be tough. I'd break them down and start with the noticable marks on the back. Split the surface area up and set up an album for the different quadrants. There will be some overlap but otherwise this project could be like trying to eat an elephant with a fork and a knife.

I think that is a good idea. The paper fibers are more noticeable on the cards' reverse, of course, so that would be the breakdown. But if we get a dozen people on the job, we are bound to find some matches. I don't know if we will find any alterations, but certainly we'll see some before grading and after grading images. Likely we will uncover some cards graded multiple times, too. It will be interesting to see if there are many grade changes.

devo · 05-09-2019, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

One of my summer projects will be to examine every publicly-sold 1952 Topps Mantle graded in the last 5 years. I will do paper fiber comparison analysis as was done here to see how many have been conserved, restored, altered, graded differently, etc. I honestly have no idea what the results will yield, but this can be done.

This should be very interesting. Look forward to seeing the results.

I would be very nervous if I was holding a ‘52 Mantle for “investment” purposes.

discostu · 05-09-2019, 01:10 PM

* If there's a hell way down below, I bet you see someone you know *

MoreToppsPlease · 05-09-2019, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Hundreds of copies, just based on data from Vintage Card Prices alone. I plan on setting up an imgur account with all the photos so Blowout members can attack the project together.

Was going to do this with 2011 Topps Update Gold Trouts, but I think the '52 Topps Mantle will be more impactful.

Thanks, I didn't know the Gold Trouts had an issue.

KhalDrogo · 05-09-2019, 01:16 PM

The Vault is going to make all this work a whole lot harder.

dmanrico · 05-09-2019, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devo

This should be very interesting. Look forward to seeing the results.

I would be very nervous if I was holding a ‘52 Mantle for “investment” purposes.

How about “ I feel really bad for an innocent purchaser who may get caught up in some bad people’s actions”. This whole scenario just stinks and you’ve got a bunch of innocent people getting caught up in this whose only “crime” is they like graded cards (which I know many on here think is the end of the world as we know it).

And for the record I don’t own a ‘52 Mantle.

corndog · 05-09-2019, 04:36 PM

The 1952 Topps John Rutherford #320 card went from a PSA6 to a PSA8. The only difference I could see was what looked like corner conservation in the two top corners.

Ebay PSA-8: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-...cAAOSwXL1cx3kd
Worthpoint PSA-6: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ord-1916037240

base set · 05-09-2019, 05:05 PM

The auction catalog description of the “new, improved” DiMaggio card from the net54 thread (and another thread here? I’m losing track)....anyway, that one paragraph perfectly explains the past, present, and future of these shenanigans.

SPauthentic84 · 05-09-2019, 06:15 PM

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxQhjthHUpr/

Ill just let that here.

Brent really doubling down on this

ThoseBackPages · 05-09-2019, 06:30 PM

stones man, stones.

corndog · 05-09-2019, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPauthentic84

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxQhjthHUpr/

Ill just let that here.

Brent really doubling down on this

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

stones man, stones.

If I were an ethical and morally responsible PWCC employee (if there is one) I would be looking for a way out of there.

TheRealDeal · 05-09-2019, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPauthentic84

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxQhjthHUpr/

Ill just let that here.

Brent really doubling down on this

Disgusting. He must really think he’s bulletproof.

05-09-2019, 01:10 PM	#616
discostu Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 7,990	* If there's a hell way down below, I bet you see someone you know * __________________ Every day I start to ooze. Last edited by discostu; 11-15-2019 at 12:50 PM.

05-09-2019, 04:36 PM	#620
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,932	The 1952 Topps John Rutherford #320 card went from a PSA6 to a PSA8. The only difference I could see was what looked like corner conservation in the two top corners. Ebay PSA-8: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-...cAAOSwXL1cx3kd Worthpoint PSA-6: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ord-1916037240 __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

05-09-2019, 06:15 PM	#622
SPauthentic84 Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: PA Posts: 11,317	https://www.instagram.com/p/BxQhjthHUpr/ Ill just let that here. Brent really doubling down on this __________________ Follow me on Instagram: Spauthentic1

05-09-2019, 06:30 PM	#623
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 90,097 ThoseBackPages	stones man, stones. __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

05-08-2019, 05:02 PM	#601
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,245	Betsy sent me a response on eBay stating that they would be reaching out to the buyer of the Musial to offer a refund.

05-09-2019, 08:44 AM	#604
matthewevan Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 70	I usually just lurk- and don’t post. But wow. This was super informative thread. And I was actually thinking about buying that PWCC mantle. Thanks for all of the great info folks!

05-09-2019, 11:47 AM	#613
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,245	Does anyone have a general timeline of what serial numbers were being used by PSA?

05-09-2019, 01:16 PM	#618
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 41,245	The Vault is going to make all this work a whole lot harder.

05-09-2019, 05:05 PM	#621
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,470	The auction catalog description of the “new, improved” DiMaggio card from the net54 thread (and another thread here? I’m losing track)....anyway, that one paragraph perfectly explains the past, present, and future of these shenanigans.