LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by JayConley

With 100% certainty. I don't think it's even close. When you have this much equity at stake and your silence can be seen as an admission of guilt, you make a statement. This isn't just a "high-end" card. This is the LeBron Exquisite RPA. Whether you like LeBron or not, you have to acknowledge that card is going to be the single most important modern card in the entire hobby. It's 6 figures. If your silence costs you 20% and makes the card infamous, you clear that IMMEDIATELY.

I would come in as well because it is the right thing to do, but if you have been a broker/middleman/seller/etc of hundreds of thousands of cards and now people could come after you if the cards were misrepresented many would cut bait.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by JayConley

With 100% certainty. I don't think it's even close. When you have this much equity at stake and your silence can be seen as an admission of guilt, you make a statement. This isn't just a "high-end" card. This is the LeBron Exquisite RPA. Whether you like LeBron or not, you have to acknowledge that card is going to be the single most important modern card in the entire hobby. It's 6 figures. If your silence costs you 20% and makes the card infamous, you clear that IMMEDIATELY.

The thing is, it's not like it's a possible win/lose situation for him financially. It's a lose/lose either way, as the cards were already proven as trimmed.

So he dwells in the corner in silence, and automatically the first assumption is guilt.

He comes out with a statement (regardless how coherent or comprehensive) and at least the public can make a somewhat educated judgement on guilt or the events that may have transpired.

His silence will not undo the damage already bestowed upon those cards. And it certainly will not have Google erase the archived records of these now infamously trimmed (and serial numbered) pieces of expensive cardboard.

So if he indeed is innocent, I see no reason why he would not make a public statement to vehemently deny any allegations and clear himself of dirty hands.

His bank account has already incurred the irrevocable damage.


And, by chance, if he does attempt to sell them on a discrete basis to some unknowing investor/collector in the future...it will eventually come back to haunt him.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

The thing is, it's not like it's a possible win/lose situation for him financially. It's a lose/lose either way, as the cards were already proven as trimmed.

So he dwells in the corner in silence, and automatically the first assumption is guilt.

He comes out with a statement (regardless how coherent or comprehensive) and at least the public can make a somewhat educated judgement on guilt or the events that may have transpired.

His silence will not undo the damage already bestowed upon those cards. And it certainly will not have Google erase the archived records of these now infamously trimmed (and serial numbered) pieces of expensive cardboard.

So if he indeed is innocent, I see no reason why he would not make a public statement to vehemently deny any allegations and clear himself of dirty hands.

His bank account has already incurred the irrevocable damage.


And, by chance, if he does attempt to sell them on a discrete basis to some unknowing investor/collector in the future...it will eventually come back to haunt him.

Several years ago watched a guy walk into a bigger East Coast Show, guy came in with a rolling bag full of high end cards, Brady, LeBron, Kobe (Exquisites, SP Authentics, etc) First seller he went to remembered selling two of the cards to a well known trimmer and within minutes word spread dont buy from the guy. Next year, a new guy sets up and about 10% of his stock was from the trimmer's buddy. Someone will dump this card in a way that someone is duped, some auction houses will even take it as it is graded.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Several years ago watched a guy walk into a bigger East Coast Show, guy came in with a rolling bag full of high end cards, Brady, LeBron, Kobe (Exquisites, SP Authentics, etc) First seller he went to remembered selling two of the cards to a well known trimmer and within minutes word spread dont buy from the guy. Next year, a new guy sets up and about 10% of his stock was from the trimmer's buddy. Someone will dump this card in a way that someone is duped, some auction houses will even take it as it is graded.

Sad but true.

Although Mr. Bitz has a much bigger dilemma, since he himself is the owner of one of the largest secondary e-retailers of high end sportscards.

Everything regarding these cards will always be traced back to him. Whether it's 10, 50, or 100 years from now.

These are arguably the most historically significant basketball rookies of the past 3 decades. Will be a lot harder for him to move them in silence, and it could possibly destroy his entire business if he attempts to do so.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Sad but true.

Although Mr. Bitz has a much bigger dilemma, since he himself is the owner of one of the largest secondary e-retailers of high end sportscards.

Everything regarding these cards will always be traced back to him. Whether it's 10, 50, or 100 years from now.

These are arguably the most historically significant basketball rookies of the past 3 decades. Will be a lot harder for him to move them in silence, and it could possibly destroy his entire business if he attempts to do so.

As we have seen others will move on and/or he sends them to auction house and auction will say accurately described PSA/BGS says so.

[duron]

Originally Posted by DevinKurant

Ninjacookies, you joined this thread late and literally looked like an idiot by asking questions that were covered pages ago (whose Steve? What is sohrob?). You were more lost than Carmelo on defense. You went to another Lebron thread asking more incredibly dumb questions. Cut your losses.

The 3 of you guys aren't in the Arena. You're in the stands heckling the players and acting like you know who needs to do what. You have no idea. You aren't a player. You don't know the parties involved nor do you have any evidence to present. All you have is bad opinions.

I get an extreme kick out of the first page of this thread that was bumped yesterday ( https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=861794 ) Four of the people who laughed at Bill's purchase are now banned. Ninjacookies makes fun of him for overpaying and says the card won't ever be worth $500k and that another /23 RPA will grade BGS 9.5. You are literally wrong on all accounts. You all mocked his purchase and he is sitting there with a return on investment unlike anything you will ever see. You wonder why high end guys like Bill, Nat Turner, Eric Bitz...etc don't reply on those threads and defend themselves against trolls like you? It's because the lion isn't concerned with the opinion of sheep. They live in a different world than you. They will never even have to deal with you in the future. You aren't worth their time.

KhalDrago is literally selling $6 cards on ebay...think about that. You don't know why high end guys buy those cards or how they value them or how the deals go down. You guys are the most active on the boards (look at those number of posts!!!) but least active in the high end market.

Fifthdownsports posted in that thread to confirm his purchase of the Lebron for $250k and he came here to defend a guy that he has known for over a decade. You know NOTHING about him but you assume the worst.... "Oh, he's part of the high end world that is all corrupt and all they ever care about is money and they just want to protect their valuabe investments...etc." He stated some facts, told some stories, and then got mocked.

You guys can keep bumping this thread, but just know that your commentary is only making you look stupid. You are laughing at us and we are laughing at you. The difference is that we are helping the situation and bringing truth. You are just posting uninformed opinion. Good luck with the sales, Khal. I think I saw some $12.50 Game of Thrown cards that look tempting. foh

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

As we have seen others will move on and/or he sends them to auction house and auction will say accurately described PSA/BGS says so.

It's an interesting dynamic.


The infamous Mastro trimmed Wagner has not changed hands since his court confession several years back (at least not to my knowledge).

I am curious how or if the value will change on that card armed with the new knowledge of it being trimmed, regardless if it's still in a PSA holder.

This is a slightly different case. Lebron RPA's are not not nearly as high a profile of cards as the Wagner, and there are many other better graded examples for investors to choose from. So I can't imagine a potential buyer being overly eager to dish out prime money for them if they know the history of the cards.

[houdini]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

any chance he has other accounts (burner accounts) posting here?

Originally Posted by houdini

I checked that a bit ago. While it is not impossible, I was able to find his personal profile online and he is both a real person and appears to have the kind of job that would let him dabble in the high-end market.

As of now, I do not think he is a pbm unless it was long ago.

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Thanks Houdini!

I apologize. Thanks to a pm, I was able to confirm he's just HP7163.

[bmx807]

The high end market can easily bring in millions a year. I am not surprised that shady things such as trimming occur. Rookies has provided evidence that the card in question has indeed been trimmed. BNC has decided to take the silent approach and all we have heard from him is through a 3rd party which is understandable since we are talking about a business that deals in high end. The 2 main problems with cardboard is that alterations occur and grading companies do not take the extra step to catch the altercations. High end cards should be scanned when submitted then graded.

That being said, all of the evidence presented leads me to believe that that BNC either had a hand in trimming the card or knew it was trimmed. I am still not convinced that Rookies had a hand in the trimming but he might have know about it possibly. His statement about the extra money if the card graded higher seems like it would have been prepared by a lawyer using specific wording. Remember this is about the high end market, and if these guys can afford a LBJ RPA they can afford a good lawyer. Proof of this is there is no real evidence of the transaction going down besides he said this and he said this and he told me this and I heard from him and I talked to him on the phone.

Long story short, BNC owns, or has owned, at least 2 knowingly trimmed cards. He is obviously knowledgeable in the hobby, and there is no way he did not know about them. Even if he did not have a hand in trimming them, one day he will be putting them on the market, or he already has sold at them knowingly.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

It's an interesting dynamic.


The infamous Mastro trimmed Wagner has not changed hands since his court confession several years back (at least not to my knowledge).

I am curious how or if the value will change on that card armed with the new knowledge of it being trimmed, regardless if it's still in a PSA holder.

This is a slightly different case. They're not nearly as high a profile of cards as the Wagner, and there are many more better graded examples for investors to choose from.

Not as high a profile and there is no court case for an auction to stay away from it.

[no10pin]

Originally Posted by houdini

I apologize. Thanks to a pm, I was able to confirm he's just HP7163.

That was the one thing missing from this thread! Double bonus that HP7163 gets the axe too.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by houdini

I apologize. Thanks to a pm, I was able to confirm he's just HP7163.

So he is or is not a baller? And is HP gone or just DevinKurant?

I am confused

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

So he is or is not a baller? And is HP gone or just DevinKurant?

I am confused

So am I! Its getting late and I cant think that clearly right now!

[chezball]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

So he is or is not a baller? And is HP gone or just DevinKurant?

I am confused

just checked and HP isn't banned.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by houdini

I apologize. Thanks to a pm, I was able to confirm he's just HP7163.

I win!

Or in other words, we all lose.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by chezball

just checked and HP isn't banned.

I checked as well and saw that, thought it was PBM so guess not

[starvela]

Originally Posted by rookies

Ill re address the big points. And further clear my name.

I dont own any cards from sohrob or eric or ones they owned. I am not hiding or helping a 3rd party. I have done lots of deals with Sohrob. He was a big collector. At the time I had a few nice high end cards he did as well and we talked on BO. I personally dont think he trims cards he just doesnt put me off as a guy who does. The card 74/99 was originally .5 from a 9.5/10 grade. This was in a old BGS label. Then card got scuffed on side and I bought the card ungraded as I said. I had never heard of a grade based uptic in price. Sohrob actually told me to do that because the card was .5 from 9.5/10 in a tougher grade time with the old bgs label. My thinking and his was hey maybe the card gets a 9.5x3 then a 8 edge and it gets a 9 which I agreed and thought yeah maybe it does. The card was super clean! So 3k kicker was added. Then i hear card grades a 8 and I say yeah thats fair maybe they doubled it and counted surface and edge as a 8. I NEVER SAW A PHOTO OR CONFIRMATION OF THE 8 GRADE. I trusted Sohrob and did many deals with him gift 20k+ blah blah blah. Which at that time was big big card money. The trade was sent to Eric and he was sending to BGS. I didnt talk with him it was all sohrob who was at the time selling his KD collection. I have not done deals with Eric this is true. Recently he asked for a giannis 9/10 3clr and I said I would move and wanted A giannis 9.5 which he had in return. Deal didnt work out. Mixed messages I guess. Honestly probably my fault. That doesnt matter. What does is because the deal fell and Eric was pissed he had Sohrob text me and Sohrob said hey Jack you didnt do the deal with Eric what the heck.Havent talked to sohrob in years. I said yeah I wanted a 9.5. sorry. He said the giannis was for him (sohrob). And that "you are making him look bad! Id suggest being on his good side " I also got further info in these texts that Sohrob and eric clearly still talk. I brought up the money owed on the 9. Sohrob said eric had the card graded a 8 and " I cant help it if someone trimmed it" But now we know only they had it AND beckett? A week or 2 ago Mcgahee21 and I were PM'ing mcgahee was pissed at him over the giannis prizm card. Also with other cards he said. If he were here I think he could help a lot. I have found past trimmers before in the wigginswolf guy and exposed him and have PM'd with Mcaghee before on cut cards as both him and I hate and know it happens a lot.

Why was Eric so upset about missing out on my 9/10 3clr giannis to have Sohrob text me anyway? Well... it was a .5 away from 9.5/10 grade strong subs. I sold card to someone else later...Then Eric bought from that someone I sold to. Card recently graded a 9.5/10. Does he just have huge pull with graders? Probably.

Eric legit does a LOT for the High End hobby. He really does. I am hoping it has nothing to do with him also hoping it has nothing to do with Sohrob. This is not a positive thread or one I wish had happened with their names. I wish I had a good relationship with Eric. It would make buying rare cards much easier for me.

I was not threatened by eric like this is making it sound like, it was just something similar said from sohrob that I showed up above that happened a while back leading to my post on BO. Thus Saying you should be on his good side if you want to get cards back in 14 All I wanted was good cards to this day all I want is good cards its tough to get cards without knowing direct high end people. Eric can get any card. I just wish in a civil matter this could be talked through. If eric wants to text me, text me man. I understand him not wanting to post if its not him doing it, its really tough position and some blowout members just want blood and to pick apart every word. Theres a shot from a few people who Ive talked to that this is a bigger beckett issue. As in some people have pull with graders.

I added those photos that had never seen daylight. Im here for the truth. Also I have no idea who OP is, further background info would be great? As in why were you looking at these cards and how did you come about it? Thats interesting to me. Are you the database KD guy? Do we know who the database KD guy is? Becuase hes saved many cards.

Thanks for coming in once again with this latest post and providing more info..Wish everyone did the same....

[PKIPP]

This thread has me SHOOK

[Wings]

Originally Posted by houdini

I apologize. Thanks to a pm, I was able to confirm he's just HP7163.

Thanks Houdini. Now if I could just get the sight of those disgusting fingernails out of my mind I could get some sleep. I mean did you guys see those? Yuck!

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Wings

Thanks Houdini. Now if I could just get the sight of those disgusting fingernails out of my mind I could get some sleep. I mean did you guys see those? Yuck!

im sure theyve been trimmed since that pic was posted

[Wings]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

im sure theyve been trimmed since that pic was posted

He shoots! He scores!

I set em up! You knock em down!

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Wings

He shoots! He scores!

I set em up! You knock em down!

[houdini]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

So he is or is not a baller? And is HP gone or just DevinKurant?

I am confused

The profile he used was for a Senior Financial Analyst at a Dallas Property Developer. He had to have access to that email address to make the account. Maybe it is his dad or something?

Originally Posted by chezball

just checked and HP isn't banned.

Sorry, I am pretty busy tonight.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by houdini

The profile he used was for a Senior Financial Analyst at a Dallas Property Developer. He had to have access to that email address to make the account. Maybe it is his dad or something?
.

so hes NOT a baller?

[JayConley]

I don't want to continue to pile on to the guy. I perused his post history on his first account and it seems like he's a genuinely okay guy that really does just want to belong to something. It actually seems like cards bring out the worst in him. I guess he started to feel community in the high-end arena and that led him to post in a smug manner.

He once actually started a thread looking for a way to donate to underprivileged children, and I commend him on that. The line where he said no child should have nothing to open on Christmas struck a chord with me. Kudos for that.

Don't let this stuff do that to you, man. You're not a bad guy. Cards are admittedly shallow. Get back to the guy that wanted to be the reason for the smile on a kid who expected disappointment on Christmas morning.