The Official 2023 NFC North Thread

[Grid]

Originally Posted by packman80

Thing is for about the last 15-20 years the running game has died out and now a secondary piece ot most offenses. What's even more shocking in 100 years the Bears have never had a QB throw for 30 or more TDs.

Again, you keep saying 100 years. For the 1st 50 years of football, really no QB tossed 30 TDs. No one threw 25 in a season, until Sid Luckman tossed 28 in 1943. That was the all time record, until Unitas tossed 32 in 1959. It took the league 15 years to catch up.

I know Packer fans don't want to admit it, since the Bears ruled the league at the time. But there was football played prior to the Super Bowl. And the 1st 50 years looked nothing like the last 50 years.

But for sure, over the past 20 years the running game became second fiddle. And the Bears are behind the times. Even now, our QB is a running back!

[packman80]

Originally Posted by Grid

Again, you keep saying 100 years. For the 1st 50 years of football, really no QB tossed 30 TDs. No one threw 25 in a season, until Sid Luckman tossed 28 in 1943. That was the all time record, until Unitas tossed 32 in 1959. It took the league 15 years to catch up.

I know Packer fans don't want to admit it, since the Bears ruled the league at the time. But there was football played prior to the Super Bowl. And the 1st 50 years looked nothing like the last 50 years.

But for sure, over the past 20 years the running game became second fiddle. And the Bears are behind the times. Even now, our QB is a running back!

Bears have not ruled football since like the 30s. GB was just nearly as dominate prior to the SB era as the Bears. But sorry if you can't have one QB throw for 30 or more TDs in a teams history it shows that your team has had a crappy history of QBs. I can see prior to the 60s not having a QB throw for 30 or more but 60+ years later and in this age of chuck it up 40 or more times a game not having one QB get to 30 is is bad. Heck the Bears have to be the only team in NFL history not to have had one QB have at least one 30 TD season.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by packman80

Bears have not ruled football since like the 30s. GB was just nearly as dominate prior to the SB era as the Bears. But sorry if you can't have one QB throw for 30 or more TDs in a teams history it shows that your team has had a crappy history of QBs. I can see prior to the 60s not having a QB throw for 30 or more but 60+ years later and in this age of chuck it up 40 or more times a game not having one QB get to 30 is is bad. Heck the Bears have to be the only team in NFL history not to have had one QB have at least one 30 TD season.

No need to be sorry! I agreed with you, that not having a dominate QB/WR in the past 50 years is sad! But your post was over the past 100 years. And I corrected you, that the Bears were among the best, if not the best, when it came to QB/WR combos the 1st 50.

The next 50, the teams were built to run and dominate on defense. While that might be old fashion now. Even a Packer fan has to admit, that the Bears have mostly dominated the league in that regard.

The Eagles, Dolphins, Falcons, Texans, Saints, Bucs and Pats have never had a player rush for 7,000+ yards

The Cardinals, Ravens, Broncos, Washington, Panthers and Chiefs have never had a player rush for 8,000+ yards

The Raiders, Packers and Bengals have never had a player rush for 9,000+ yards

Hell, the Lions are the only team with a 13,000+ rusher. And only the Bears and Cowboys are in the 16,000+ club.

[49erRCCollector]

in 1000 years the Bears have never had a QB throw for 30 or more TDs.

1000!

[kevbojones]

Lions 10-7
Bears 9-8
Vikings 7-10
Packers 6-11

[packman80]

Originally Posted by kevbojones

Lions 10-7
Bears 9-8
Vikings 7-10
Packers 6-11

Lions 10-7
Vikings 9-8
Packers 8-9
Bears 6-11

[Grid]

Originally Posted by kevbojones

Lions 10-7
Bears 9-8
Vikings 7-10
Packers 6-11

Originally Posted by packman80

Lions 10-7
Vikings 9-8
Packers 8-9
Bears 6-11

I am agreeing with you both. The NFC North, more so than any other division, will be the most contested divisions in the NFL.

I can see a lot of games going either way when they all play each other.

Bears 9-8
Lions 9-8
Vikings 9-8
Packers 9-8

Then a thunderdome tie breaker for the crown.

[hairysasquatch]

TIL neither Bears nor Packers fans understand using the word "dominant" in a sentence.

[lambeauleap87]

This made me think of which NFC North teams have the best claim to each position group all-time, minimal research led me to this:

QB - Packers clear the field
RB - Bears (Payton/Sayers/Forte), but AP and Barry make this interesting.
WR - Vikings (Moss/Carter/Jefferson) at the top, Packers for depth
TE - Bears, I guess, thanks to Ditka? Brandon Pettigrew is a top 10 TE in NFC North history for receiving yards if that tells you anything.
OL - No immediate thoughts because there's a lot of old guys that would lead the way here
DL - Vikings are my first instinct (Page, Randle, Eller, Doleman)
LB - Bears courtesy of Butkus/Urlacher
DB - Packers probably lead here for me (Woodson/Adderley/Bobby Dillon/Wood)
K - Minnesota technically has the most seasons of HOF kickers (Morten Anderson + Jan Stenerud for short stints), so let's say that.
P - Choose your own adventure
KR/PR - Bears (Hester/Sayers)

Tried to focus on "best" players more than most HOF inductees or anything like that, but lots open to interpretation.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by packman80

Thing is for about the last 15-20 years the running game has died out and now a secondary piece ot most offenses. What's even more shocking in 100 years the Bears have never had a QB throw for 30 or more TDs.

I'm shocked that you're shocked by this. Even more shocking than that is the lack of a Bears QB who has thrown more than 4,000 yards in a season. In fact Jay Cutler got so close in 2014 Marc Trestman had to bench him in the penultimate game against the Lions to avoid him eclipsing 4,000 yards and/or 30 TDs.

Originally Posted by 49erRCCollector

in 1000 years the Bears have never had a QB throw for 30 or more TDs.

1000!

Pshh, it's been a lot longer than that.

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

LB - Bears courtesy of Butkus/Urlacher

Don't be sleeping on Mike Singletary who is by far the best LB in franchise history.

[packman80]

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

This made me think of which NFC North teams have the best claim to each position group all-time, minimal research led me to this:

QB - Packers clear the field
RB - Bears (Payton/Sayers/Forte), but AP and Barry make this interesting.
WR - Vikings (Moss/Carter/Jefferson) at the top, Packers for depth
TE - Bears, I guess, thanks to Ditka? Brandon Pettigrew is a top 10 TE in NFC North history for receiving yards if that tells you anything.
OL - No immediate thoughts because there's a lot of old guys that would lead the way here
DL - Vikings are my first instinct (Page, Randle, Eller, Doleman)
LB - Bears courtesy of Butkus/Urlacher
DB - Packers probably lead here for me (Woodson/Adderley/Bobby Dillon/Wood)
K - Minnesota technically has the most seasons of HOF kickers (Morten Anderson + Jan Stenerud for short stints), so let's say that.
P - Choose your own adventure
KR/PR - Bears (Hester/Sayers)

Tried to focus on "best" players more than most HOF inductees or anything like that, but lots open to interpretation.

I think OL you have to go GB. That 60s OL was one of the best ever. Rest of list I could agree with.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

K - Minnesota technically has the most seasons of HOF kickers (Morten Anderson + Jan Stenerud for short stints), so let's say that.

In my opinion, Gary Anderson's and Blair Walsh's lack of clutch performances cancel this out.

I'd go with the Lions based on the strength of Eddie Murray (1980-91, 1x AP 1st, All-1980s Team), Jason Hanson (1992-2012, 2x Pro Bowl, 1x AP 2nd), and Matt Prater (2014-2020, 1x PB). Getting quality play at the kicker position for 30+ years from 2 guys is positively Packers-esque.

[hairysasquatch]

Originally Posted by jplarson

In my opinion, Gary Anderson's and Blair Walsh's lack of clutch performances cancel this out.

I'd go with the Lions based on the strength of Eddie Murray (1980-91, 1x AP 1st, All-1980s Team), Jason Hanson (1992-2012, 2x Pro Bowl, 1x AP 2nd), and Matt Prater (2014-2020, 1x PB). Getting quality play at the kicker position for 30+ years from 2 guys is positively Packers-esque.

A teeny tiny W for the Lions!

We are all about the future in Motown!

[packman80]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

A teeny tiny W for the Lions!

We are all about the future in Motown!

[hreed2]

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

This made me think of which NFC North teams have the best claim to each position group all-time, minimal research led me to this:

QB - Packers clear the field
RB - Bears (Payton/Sayers/Forte), but AP and Barry make this interesting.
WR - Vikings (Moss/Carter/Jefferson) at the top, Packers for depth
TE - Bears, I guess, thanks to Ditka? Brandon Pettigrew is a top 10 TE in NFC North history for receiving yards if that tells you anything.
OL - No immediate thoughts because there's a lot of old guys that would lead the way here
DL - Vikings are my first instinct (Page, Randle, Eller, Doleman)
LB - Bears courtesy of Butkus/Urlacher
DB - Packers probably lead here for me (Woodson/Adderley/Bobby Dillon/Wood)
K - Minnesota technically has the most seasons of HOF kickers (Morten Anderson + Jan Stenerud for short stints), so let's say that.
P - Choose your own adventure
KR/PR - Bears (Hester/Sayers)

Tried to focus on "best" players more than most HOF inductees or anything like that, but lots open to interpretation.

I can't really argue with the majority of this list but I'd like to at least point out that the Bears have a real claim for the DL s[pt. Doug Atkins is often forgotten but he has to be mentioned among the greatest Dlineman of all time (NFL Network ranked him as the 9th best pass rusher of all time and he had 94.5 sacks in his career and thats without the NFL keeping track of sacks for the first 7 years of his career). Beyond Atkins they also have Hampton and Dent who were both HOFers and were anchors of one of if not the greatest defensive line of all time. I'm not saying the Vikings aren't worthy of the spot either (Page and Randle were both incredible and they do have a number of other HOFers) but I'd give the nod to the Bears.

[jplarson]

[Asian62150]

I'd say Bears for OL/DL.

Lines should be grouped in units because that's kind of how they're judged (esp. OL).

Those guys in the trenches for Da Bears in the 80s were pretty dominate both ways.

hreed2 mentioned the amazing DL but the OL unit of Covert, Hilgenberg, Van Horne and Thayer played really well together.

[lambeauleap87]

Originally Posted by jplarson

In my opinion, Gary Anderson's and Blair Walsh's lack of clutch performances cancel this out.

I'd go with the Lions based on the strength of Eddie Murray (1980-91, 1x AP 1st, All-1980s Team), Jason Hanson (1992-2012, 2x Pro Bowl, 1x AP 2nd), and Matt Prater (2014-2020, 1x PB). Getting quality play at the kicker position for 30+ years from 2 guys is positively Packers-esque.

The NFCN has actually had pretty stable kicker play for modern stretches - Hanson in Detroit, Crosby/Longwell in GB, Robbie Gould in Chicago. Minnesota actually less so, but they were listed with the most HOF kickers and I wasn't putting much thought into it.

My initial thought was Chicago simply for Gould and Cody Parkey.

Originally Posted by jplarson

Don't be sleeping on Mike Singletary who is by far the best LB in franchise history.

I knew I was forgetting someone, but I could only think of Lance Briggs (who was definitely not worthy of this list but still a really good player).

[Grid]

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

This made me think of which NFC North teams have the best claim to each position group all-time, minimal research led me to this:

QB - Packers clear the field
RB - Bears (Payton/Sayers/Forte), but AP and Barry make this interesting.
WR - Vikings (Moss/Carter/Jefferson) at the top, Packers for depth
TE - Bears, I guess, thanks to Ditka? Brandon Pettigrew is a top 10 TE in NFC North history for receiving yards if that tells you anything.
OL - No immediate thoughts because there's a lot of old guys that would lead the way here
DL - Vikings are my first instinct (Page, Randle, Eller, Doleman)
LB - Bears courtesy of Butkus/Urlacher
DB - Packers probably lead here for me (Woodson/Adderley/Bobby Dillon/Wood)
K - Minnesota technically has the most seasons of HOF kickers (Morten Anderson + Jan Stenerud for short stints), so let's say that.
P - Choose your own adventure
KR/PR - Bears (Hester/Sayers)

Tried to focus on "best" players more than most HOF inductees or anything like that, but lots open to interpretation.

Solid list for sure. .

I would like to stake claim to the Lines. No team has more O-Lineman in the Hall of Fame or on the All Decade lists, than the Bears do.

George Trafton, Bulldog Turner, Stan Jones, Dan Fortmann, Ed Healy, Link Lyman, Jimbo Covert, Joe Stydhar, George Musso ETC

Same goes with the D-Line...

Many of the guys above (2 way football) plus Doug Atkins, Dan Hampton, Richard Dent, Ed Sprinkle, Bill Hewitt ETC

I'd vote to strike Woodson from the Packers. He started for the Raiders and ended with the Raiders. He played more ball in Oakland, and was just adopted by the Pack. But I dont think the NFC North/Central has ever been too strong in the secondary.

And for LB, you left off Bill George (Hall of Fame, 1st LB in league history) and Mike Singletary. No one could ever argue about the Bears LB Legacy.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

The NFCN has actually had pretty stable kicker play for modern stretches - Hanson in Detroit, Crosby/Longwell in GB, Robbie Gould in Chicago. Minnesota actually less so, but they were listed with the most HOF kickers and I wasn't putting much thought into it.

My initial thought was Chicago simply for Gould and Cody Parkey.

Savage!



Let's remember some good Bears kickers . Robbie Gould, Paul Edinger, Kevin Butler, and the Honorable Bob Thomas

[Grid]

Originally Posted by jplarson

Savage!



Let's remember some good Bears kickers . Robbie Gould, Paul Edinger, Kevin Butler, and the Honorable Bob Thomas

George Blanda says hello!

[lambeauleap87]

Originally Posted by Grid

Solid list for sure. .

I would like to stake claim to the Lines. No team has more O-Lineman in the Hall of Fame or on the All Decade lists, than the Bears do.

George Trafton, Bulldog Turner, Stan Jones, Dan Fortmann, Ed Healy, Link Lyman, Jimbo Covert, Joe Stydhar, George Musso ETC

Same goes with the D-Line...

Many of the guys above (2 way football) plus Doug Atkins, Dan Hampton, Richard Dent, Ed Sprinkle, Bill Hewitt ETC

I'd vote to strike Woodson from the Packers. He started for the Raiders and ended with the Raiders. He played more ball in Oakland, and was just adopted by the Pack. But I dont think the NFC North/Central has ever been too strong in the secondary.

And for LB, you left off Bill George (Hall of Fame, 1st LB in league history) and Mike Singletary. No one could ever argue about the Bears LB Legacy.

Honestly, I think my lack of OL choice was that I focused on the top 3-5 guys in each group for the exercise and didn't have a lot of thoughts in comparing Link Lyman and Cal Hubbard. More of a result of name power (or lack thereof), especially since most of the guys that would come up in places like GB/Chicago were out of the league before my parents were born.

I think the Bears have the depth for DL, too, but for the top 3-5, I'd still lean Minnesota. Personal opinion, though.

Woodson played more with Oakland, but his best years were in Green Bay - half his All Pro (and Pro Bowl) selections, his Super Bowl ring, his DPOY award, and his interception crowns all came in Green Bay.

100% forgot Singletary (I'm not as familiar with Bill George, admittedly), but no question the Bears LB history is the best in the North (and probably the league history).

[Grid]

Originally Posted by lambeauleap87

Honestly, I think my lack of OL choice was that I focused on the top 3-5 guys in each group for the exercise and didn't have a lot of thoughts in comparing Link Lyman and Cal Hubbard. More of a result of name power (or lack thereof), especially since most of the guys that would come up in places like GB/Chicago were out of the league before my parents were born.

I think the Bears have the depth for DL, too, but for the top 3-5, I'd still lean Minnesota. Personal opinion, though.

Woodson played more with Oakland, but his best years were in Green Bay - half his All Pro (and Pro Bowl) selections, his Super Bowl ring, his DPOY award, and his interception crowns all came in Green Bay.

100% forgot Singletary (I'm not as familiar with Bill George, admittedly), but no question the Bears LB history is the best in the North (and probably the league history).

I hear you on the lines. How about this...

When the NFL produced their list of 100 greatest players of all time, for the 100 anniversary in 2019. These players were on the list:

O-Line

Forrest Gregg & Cal Hubbard Packers
Randall McDaniel Vikings
Dan Fortmann Bears
Nobody McNever Lions

Packers win 2 to 1 over the Vikings and Bears for the best of the best.

D-Line

Doug Atkins & Bill Hewitt Bears
Alan Page & John Randall Vikings. Only 3/4 of a point goes to Vikings, as they shared Page with the Bears.
Reggie White Packers 1/4 point
Always Garbageski Lions

I'll give the Packers the O-Line, and the Bears hold the tie breaker on the D-Line. And we all agree the Lions are trash. And the Vikings only get the WR corp. Deal?

[packman80]

Originally Posted by Grid

I hear you on the lines. How about this...

When the NFL produced their list of 100 greatest players of all time, for the 100 anniversary in 2019. These players were on the list:

O-Line

Forrest Gregg & Cal Hubbard Packers
Randall McDaniel Vikings
Dan Fortmann Bears
Nobody McNever Lions

Packers win 2 to 1 over the Vikings and Bears for the best of the best.

D-Line

Doug Atkins & Bill Hewitt Bears
Alan Page & John Randall Vikings. Only 3/4 of a point goes to Vikings, as they shared Page with the Bears.
Reggie White Packers 1/4 point
Always Garbageski Lions

I'll give the Packers the O-Line, and the Bears hold the tie breaker on the D-Line. And we all agree the Lions are trash. And the Vikings only get the WR corp. Deal?

I think you could make a legit discussion for GB at WR. GB has had Hutson, Lofton, Sharpe, Jennings, Nelson, Adams as top guys. I will give that MN has had the best WR in the NFC Central/North history in Moss.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by packman80

I think you could make a legit discussion for GB at WR. GB has had Hutson, Lofton, Sharpe, Jennings, Nelson, Adams as top guys. I will give that MN has had the best WR in the NFC Central/North history in Moss.

I was ready to nope on that but looking over the stats, I'd say Green Bay certainly has a stronger top 10. I think I still put Randy Moss/Cris Carter the top 2 of the combined franchises, but if I'm filling out the top 10 WRs, there's more Packers than Vikings on that list.