PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc - Page 225

qdoggmets · 10-14-2019, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

Okay. Is he aware of what has transpired over the last several months? If not, print out a copy of the list and give it to him.

He is. Sometimes it takes realizing you almost wasted 2 grand to wake up.

Pink Pussycat · 10-14-2019, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qdoggmets

He is. Sometimes it takes realizing you almost wasted 2 grand to wake up.

Wake up, haha... These collectors are much like the 7 Dwarves...

Sleepy, Dopey and Happy are all PSA loyalists.

Grumpy knows the real truth about Doc (Gary Moser)

Snow White is Bobby Hull in PSA 7, before Doc performed his operation.

Saraste · 10-14-2019, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pink Pussycat

Wake up, haha... These collectors are much like the 7 Dwarves...

Sleepy, Dopey, Sleazy and Happy are all PSA loyalists.

Grumpy knows the real truth about Doc (Gary Moser)

Snow White is Bobby Hull in PSA 7, before Doc performed his operation.

Fixed.

pip · 10-14-2019, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooftop

Whats the long term effect on that card? Will it bleed 20 years from now?

It's now an altered card worth perhaps 10% to 20% of the Near Mint value. Not sure what you mean in your second question. Are you asking if the red ink will come off of the card or migrate somehow?

Rooftop · 10-14-2019, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

It's now an altered card worth perhaps 10% to 20% of the Near Mint value. Not sure what you mean in your second question. Are you asking if the red ink will come off of the card or migrate somehow?

Yeah, will it migrate

Saraste · 10-14-2019, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

It's now an altered card worth perhaps 10% to 20% of the Near Mint value.

Almost cards will have a ceiling of 10-20% with very few even hitting that. The rare exception would be a card like the PMG green Jordan that sold early this year in an authentic slab. It is truly sad because cards like the Hull were truly great cards in their original slabs.

pip · 10-14-2019, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooftop

Yeah, will it migrate

Don't know.

signed79 · 10-14-2019, 06:29 PM

That Hull is worth no more than $500.00

Pink Pussycat · 10-14-2019, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooftop

Yeah, will it migrate

I don’t know either. But it would be pretty funny if red ink migrated into the plastic slab.

Might be tough for the “winner” to recoup his $78K.

corndog · 10-19-2019, 08:09 AM

It's really sad that even now when you venture to VCP the PWCC banners are still waving. What money will do to people...

corndog · 10-19-2019, 05:18 PM

I found this card this morning and am putting it in this thread without knowing yet who the card alterer is. There are other cards in the submission to PSA but I haven't been able to match another before and after. Heritage would have the record of the purchaser's information and PWCC would have the same for the consigner. It is also possible it is a Moser/Huigens card.

PSA Cert #27228374

1909 E90-1 American Caramel Ty Cobb

Value gain of $3,633.01

This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Heritage Auctions as a PSA 3.5 for $2,868.00 on November 19, 2016.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b.../47707/PSA/3.5

Same card was sold by Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 5 for $6,501.01 on June 06, 2017.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1508723

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red boxes identify areas where color was added.

3124508 on COMC · 10-19-2019, 05:20 PM

Hahahahaha

cking · 10-19-2019, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

I found this card this morning and am putting it in this thread without knowing yet who the card alterer is. There are other cards in the submission to PSA but I haven't been able to match another before and after. Heritage would have the record of the purchaser's information and PWCC would have the same for the consigner. It is also possible it is a Moser/Huigens card.

PSA Cert #27228374

1909 E90-1 American Caramel Ty Cobb

Value gain of $3,633.01

This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Heritage Auctions as a PSA 3.5 for $2,868.00 on November 19, 2016.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b.../47707/PSA/3.5

Same card was sold by Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 5 for $6,501.01 on June 06, 2017.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1508723

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red boxes identify areas where color was added.

Almost looks like someone used mustard for the recoloring in the yellow part. Seriously.

pip · 10-19-2019, 05:44 PM

I've seen many 3 year olds that are better at matching colors. As for the grader who couldn't detect this, there's only one conclusion a reasonable collector could arrive at: the fix is in. If you're the right submitter, anything goes. Use scotch tape if you want. It'll still pass.

signed79 · 10-19-2019, 06:03 PM

I'm in the same boat as a lot of others in that I had spent thousands of dollars in grading fees because I thought all cards were graded equally. That's the biggest fraud in this mess - the millions taken from submitters.

superdan49 · 10-19-2019, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

I found this card this morning and am putting it in this thread without knowing yet who the card alterer is. There are other cards in the submission to PSA but I haven't been able to match another before and after. Heritage would have the record of the purchaser's information and PWCC would have the same for the consigner. It is also possible it is a Moser/Huigens card.

PSA Cert #27228374

1909 E90-1 American Caramel Ty Cobb

Value gain of $3,633.01

This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Heritage Auctions as a PSA 3.5 for $2,868.00 on November 19, 2016.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b.../47707/PSA/3.5

Same card was sold by Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 5 for $6,501.01 on June 06, 2017.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1508723

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red boxes identify areas where color was added.

corndog · 10-19-2019, 06:55 PM

This card is from the same PSA submission as the Cobb posted earlier and was purchased on the same date as the Cobb. Heritage would have the record of the purchaser's information and PWCC would have the same for the consigner. It is also possible it is a Moser/Huigens card.

PSA Cert #27228395

1954 Topps Al Kaline #201

Value gain of $2,951.00

This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Heritage Auctions as a SGC 6 for $657.00 on November 19, 2016.
VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...1/67475/SGC/80

Same card was sold by Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 8 for $3,608.00 on June 07, 2017.
PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1510171

Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers.
Red box identifies a trimmed top edge.

corndog · 10-19-2019, 08:10 PM

I can confirm that there is a Moser purchased card (whitman111) in the submission so the two altered cards posted are tied to Brent Huigens and Gary Moser.

MoreToppsPlease · 10-19-2019, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

I can confirm that there is a Moser purchased card (whitman111) in the submission so the two altered cards posted are tied to Brent Huigens and Gary Moser.

not shocking...

superdan49 · 10-19-2019, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

I can confirm that there is a Moser purchased card (whitman111) in the submission so the two altered cards posted are tied to Brent Huigens and Gary Moser.

Adding gray color to white areas of paper loss has been previously connected to cards submitted to PSA by Brent and/or Moser. To me, this is the most egregious type of criminal alteration.

corndog · 10-19-2019, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdan49

Adding gray color to white areas of paper loss has been previously connected to cards submitted to PSA by Brent and/or Moser. To me, this is the most egregious type of criminal alteration.

I had a pretty good feeling it was them as the submission list was very Moseresque and with the coloring. I don't recall checking into cards from that sub.

Bruins1993 · 10-20-2019, 02:58 AM

Hey Joe your due for a Taking My Hacks temper tantrum at the hobbiest exposing fraud related to PSA. Also, it's fraud, not just unethical!

tconte · 10-20-2019, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruins1993

Hey Joe your due for a Taking My Hacks temper tantrum at the hobbiest exposing fraud related to PSA. Also, it's fraud, not just unethical!

Those are hilarious. It's everyone elses fault!

cking · 10-20-2019, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tconte

Those are hilarious. It's everyone elses fault!

Never get cheated.

Except by PSA. They will cheat the crap out of you.

And everyone else for that matter.

And then blame you for it.

And the sheep believe them.

The whole thing is strange.

The mountain of evidence shown against PSA and still people think they are on the up and up.

And some of the people who believe in PSA are very smart people. I just dont get it.

Nothing else gets by them, yet PSA has them totally fooled.

It truly baffles me.

Pink Pussycat · 10-20-2019, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cking

Never get cheated.

Except by PSA. They will cheat the crap out of you.

And everyone else for that matter.

And then blame you for it.

And the sheep believe them.

The whole thing is strange.

The mountain of evidence shown against PSA and still people think they are on the up and up.

And some of the people who believe in PSA are very smart people. I just dont get it.

Nothing else gets by them, yet PSA has them totally fooled.

It truly baffles me.

By far the best explanation is that these otherwise "smart people" are deeply invested in PSA Slabs. The need to maintain high value in their collections over-rides any speck of common sense. Outside of their blind PSA allegiance, they appear to be reasonable and intelligent people.

Take away their slabbed collections, and sanity would be restored. Their staunch defense of PSA is money and status related... a true microcosm of the bigger problem in this corrupt scheme.

Secondly, there is an "addictive" aspect to their PSA worship. I know many PSA addicts get a "high" of sorts, when their newly submitted cards are returned to them in slabs. Some will describe these mail days as "the best day in their life" or "the most exciting day of the week" or "the highlight of my year". Ask any addict, whether it's drugs, alcohol, sex or gambling.... THE ADDICTION always supersedes common sense.

And PSA (better than anyone) knows how to exploit the addiction.

10-19-2019, 08:09 AM	#5610
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,859	It's really sad that even now when you venture to VCP the PWCC banners are still waving. What money will do to people... __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

10-19-2019, 05:18 PM	#5611
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,859	I found this card this morning and am putting it in this thread without knowing yet who the card alterer is. There are other cards in the submission to PSA but I haven't been able to match another before and after. Heritage would have the record of the purchaser's information and PWCC would have the same for the consigner. It is also possible it is a Moser/Huigens card. PSA Cert #27228374 1909 E90-1 American Caramel Ty Cobb Value gain of $3,633.01 This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Heritage Auctions as a PSA 3.5 for $2,868.00 on November 19, 2016. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b.../47707/PSA/3.5 Same card was sold by Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 5 for $6,501.01 on June 06, 2017. PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1508723 Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red boxes identify areas where color was added. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

10-19-2019, 05:20 PM	#5612
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,388	Hahahahaha __________________ 3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud

10-19-2019, 06:55 PM	#5617
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,859	This card is from the same PSA submission as the Cobb posted earlier and was purchased on the same date as the Cobb. Heritage would have the record of the purchaser's information and PWCC would have the same for the consigner. It is also possible it is a Moser/Huigens card. PSA Cert #27228395 1954 Topps Al Kaline #201 Value gain of $2,951.00 This card was purchased by an unknown buyer from Heritage Auctions as a SGC 6 for $657.00 on November 19, 2016. VCP link: https://vintagecardprices.com/card/b...1/67475/SGC/80 Same card was sold by Ebay seller PWCC as a PSA 8 for $3,608.00 on June 07, 2017. PWCC link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1510171 Yellow circles are print, fiber, or chipping identifiers. Red box identifies a trimmed top edge. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

10-19-2019, 08:10 PM	#5618
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 17,859	I can confirm that there is a Moser purchased card (whitman111) in the submission so the two altered cards posted are tied to Brent Huigens and Gary Moser. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.

10-14-2019, 06:29 PM	#5608
signed79 Member Join Date: May 2019 Location: USA Posts: 513	That Hull is worth no more than $500.00

10-19-2019, 05:44 PM	#5614
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	I've seen many 3 year olds that are better at matching colors. As for the grader who couldn't detect this, there's only one conclusion a reasonable collector could arrive at: the fix is in. If you're the right submitter, anything goes. Use scotch tape if you want. It'll still pass.

10-19-2019, 06:03 PM	#5615
signed79 Member Join Date: May 2019 Location: USA Posts: 513	I'm in the same boat as a lot of others in that I had spent thousands of dollars in grading fees because I thought all cards were graded equally. That's the biggest fraud in this mess - the millions taken from submitters.

10-20-2019, 02:58 AM	#5622
Bruins1993 Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Stuck inside of Mobile Posts: 1,289	Hey Joe your due for a Taking My Hacks temper tantrum at the hobbiest exposing fraud related to PSA. Also, it's fraud, not just unethical! __________________ #nevergetcheated Riiiiiiiiight