SGC Grading

[inaka]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

May was a pretty bad month. -13% YOY

Then PSA must really be in trouble since PSA was down -30% in May, year-to-year.

I just went to gemrate's web site and looked at the last 12 months of data, and for SGC you selected literally the one and only month out of the last twelve that they didn't have growth year-to-year. All other months showed positive growth. Meanwhile, PSA had a "decline" in sports card grading then, and they are in much worse shape with with five out of the last seven months showing a steep decline in their sports card grading at PSA.

Here are the last 12 months of sports card grading numbers:

June 2024
PSA (Sports): 734k +23% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 137k +51% Year over Year)

July 2024
PSA (Sports): 807k +62% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 182k +107% Year over Year)

August 2024
PSA (Sports): 818k +22% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 159k +42% Year over Year)

September 2024
PSA (Sports): 744k +24% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 139k +32% Year over Year)

October 2024
PSA (Sports): 888k +38% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 158k +41% Year over Year)

November 2024
PSA (Sports): 691k +20% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 121k +18% Year over Year)

December 2024
PSA (Sports): 602k -15% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 124k +13% Year over Year)

January 2025
PSA (Sports): 690k +4% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 160k +13% Year over Year)

February 2025
PSA (Sports): 678k -6% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 142k +10% Year over Year)

March 2025
PSA (Sports): 688k -16% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 167k +28% Year over Year)

April 2025
PSA (Sports): 570k -23% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 158k +15% Year over Year)

May 2025
PSA (Sports): 602k -30% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 137k -13% Year over Year)

June 2025
PSA (Sports): 525k -28% Year over Year)
SGC (Sports): 149k +8% Year over Year)

Check out the trends overall in sports card grading.

Summary: At PSA they were grading cards in the ~800k range month in and month out a year ago. Now? They're in the 600k range and dropping, with two of the last three months in the ~550k range, and negative numbers year-to-year in the last five months in a row. That's a decline.

By comparison, SGC a year ago was grading cards in the 140k range, and now they are grading cards in the 150k range. Slight bump, and not declining at all. One could consider this "stagnant" I guess, but in relation to the market leader PSA, this is actually pretty damn good and maintaining a small amount of growth where as PSA is actually declining in sports card grading.

And to note, for the last 12 months (and beyond) these two companies both owned by Collector's are the top two in sports card grading by far. Killing off SGC would only invite a competitor to take market share since Collector's already currently owns 91% of the sports card trading market.

[discodanman45]

Really hate SGC's social media presence. It looks like it is being run by a 15 year old. Just SGC 10's and emoji's everywhere. Moneybags, fire, diamonds, etc...

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by inaka

Then PSA must really be in trouble since PSA was down -30% in May, year-to-year.

Pokémon drives PSA and CGC. These are the money makers and CU and CCG are prioritizing them over everything else. Even TAG is grading a decent amount of Pokémon, which shows that this is the biggest segment in the hobby. Going to card shows the last few months, this is not going to slow down and most likely get even more insane. It wouldn't surprise me in a year that 80% of all cards graded are TCG. What are we now? 65% TCG and 35% Sports from the top 4?

I don't think SGC will be killed off, but I also don't see any growth. We will see how July looks. SGC started this month slow with only 26.2k sports cards graded the first week. They will most likely 40k less than last year from July.

I am sending in hundreds of cards myself into SGC, so it is not like I think they are dead. However, I really think that they will downsize a bit and the end of bulk submissions is the first sign of this. I hope under 5 day submission returns happen again, but I think the 15-20 days are here to stay.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by inaka

And to note, for the last 12 months (and beyond) these two companies both owned by Collector's are the top two in sports card grading by far. Killing off SGC would only invite a competitor to take market share since Collector's already currently owns 91% of the sports card trading market.

Normally would agree with you on this,but right now there is no one to fill in the void.......90% of the SGC customers would just use PSA as it is now.(100% of the vintage customers). Until a real option comes up Collectors wont lose much by killing the SGC brand.more over PSA will make some sort of play letting current SGC customers know "its just a name change same SGC graders same service"

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by Gary

Soon as SGC was bought out their days were numbered.......i said right after the sale,SGC will end up going away,...

~18 months later...and when is the coffin going in the ground exactly?

[hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by towerymt

~18 months later...and when is the coffin going in the ground exactly?

Well, once the Florida operation opens I am guessing the big bulk submitter there will basically turn PSA, so change is happening, slowly.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[Gary]

Originally Posted by towerymt

~18 months later...and when is the coffin going in the ground exactly?

Without knowing the terms of the sale id say within the next 6-18 months. would love to be proven wrong...been a vintage SGC customer for a very long time.thinking PSA bought SGC to keep it as is or to grow the brand would be a little naive imo.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by Gary

Without knowing the terms of the sale id say within the next 6-18 months. would love to be proven wrong...been a vintage SGC customer for a very long time.thinking PSA bought SGC to keep it as is or to grow the brand would be a little naive imo.

Keeping it a vintage only brand would make sense for them. PSA doesn't really want to deal with vintage unless it is a big card at a high service level. PSA makes the majority of their money from ultra-modern cards, especially Pokémon, and most likely having them graded by machines and checked by humans. Especially Pokémon where the cards have uniformity and could easily be graded by scans and then checked for creases.

It wouldn't surprise me in the future if we see some collaboration between the companies. Getting an email saying your vintage card graded a SGC 9, but we will slab it a PSA 9 for a $200 upcharge fee.

[inaka]

Originally Posted by Gary

Normally would agree with you on this,but right now there is no one to fill in the void.......90% of the SGC customers would just use PSA as it is now.(100% of the vintage customers). Until a real option comes up Collectors wont lose much by killing the SGC brand.more over PSA will make some sort of play letting current SGC customers know "its just a name change same SGC graders same service"

Nat has already confirmed that the above in bold above is not true. Their data shows that most people have strong opinions about one or the other, and few people grade with both. I technically do grade with both, but that's just to close out some PSA sets I started long before PSA became the current PSA with 3-4 month wait times, screwing over Collector's Club members with virtually no specials, widely inconsistent grading, etc.

Collector's Universe already owns 91% of the current market share in sports card grading. You really think a move like phasing out SGC will increase marketshare even more? It can only go down, and could cause a series of events that alter PSA's dominance. (i.e. Fanatics could buy Beckett and re-energize that stalled brand, CGC could sway vintage SGC graders to their camp, etc.) and this could shake up the sports card market for sure. It's not a given that people just flock to PSA. I know I sure wouldn't.

[inaka]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Pokémon drives PSA and CGC. These are the money makers and CU and CCG are prioritizing them over everything else. Even TAG is grading a decent amount of Pokémon, which shows that this is the biggest segment in the hobby. Going to card shows the last few months, this is not going to slow down and most likely get even more insane. It wouldn't surprise me in a year that 80% of all cards graded are TCG. What are we now? 65% TCG and 35% Sports from the top 4?

All of that is true, but we're talking about SGC and the growth/decline of the sports card grading market. Focusing specifically on sports card grading, PSA has actually declined greatly over the pst year, and it's especially true in the last five months as they pivot to prioritize TCG. In that same time frame, SGC has actually showed some small growth year-to-year where even PSA has declined quite dramatically actually.

SGC's "decline/demise" feels like an bank run.

"Guys, it's pretty obvious Bank of America is shutting down."

"No way, really?? That's sad, I liked them" (speaking in the past-tense as if they're already gone)

"Yeah, they've been declining for a while now."

"I guess I better stop using them and take my money out."

"Better hurry, their days are numbered"

"YouTube: Is SGC going out of business?! Are SGC's days numbered?!"

And so on. Like a bank run, if enough people just keep saying something, it can lead to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. But the numbers aren't lying.

SGC isn't declining at all in sports card grading.

Making SGC the vintage sports brand makes far more sense, especially if their own internal data may show that the majority of SGC's sports card grading is vintage over modern (which is likely true but unconfirmed).

So the talk of the complete demise of SGC, especially when people speak about it in the past tense like it already happened is just baffling to me. If we're going by actual numbers, SGC isn't in decline in sports card grading, and actually PSA is, so let's keep it real. That's all I'm saying.

[Giroux]

If SGC was dissolved I'd send to Beckett. Yeah...

[Gary]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Keeping it a vintage only brand would make sense for them.

I agree,i said as much when the buy out happened.......But it makes more sense operationally to use PSA slabs not SGC slabs.Cards are now a business,it hasn't been a hobby for a long time now,PSA is a business they will do what makes sense for them not us.Again id love to be proven wrong,and really hope i am.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by inaka

Nat has already confirmed that the above in bold above is not true. Their data shows that most people have strong opinions about one or the other, and few people grade with both. I technically do grade with both, but that's just to close out some PSA sets I started long before PSA became the current PSA with 3-4 month wait times, screwing over Collector's Club members with virtually no specials, widely inconsistent grading, etc.

Collector's Universe already owns 91% of the current market share in sports card grading. You really think a move like phasing out SGC will increase marketshare even more? It can only go down, and could cause a series of events that alter PSA's dominance. (i.e. Fanatics could buy Beckett and re-energize that stalled brand, CGC could sway vintage SGC graders to their camp, etc.) and this could shake up the sports card market for sure. It's not a given that people just flock to PSA. I know I sure wouldn't.

Sorry but NAT has an agenda....i wouldn't be taking anything nat says true,he runs PSA and will say whatever he thinks he needs to for his purpose.not unlike any other ceo in the world does.

I do agree cgc should try and grab SGC graders to try and get some respect n the vintage space......but as it stands now if SGC isnt around its PSA or nothing for vintage.

[Cracktoast]

Sent off a 10 card order this morning let's see if it gets back to me faster than the PSA 10 card sub that's been sitting in researching ID since May 12th with a 2 month head start

[inaka]

Originally Posted by Gary

......but as it stands now if SGC isnt around its PSA or nothing for vintage.

Definitely not for me, and I know I'm not alone.
Especially after watching vintage SGC reveal videos on YouTube. Many of us have given up on sending vintage cards to PSA since they're so terribly inconsistent in grading now. No thanks.

Originally Posted by Cracktoast

Sent off a 10 card order this morning let's see if it gets back to me faster than the PSA 10 card sub that's been sitting in researching ID since May 12th with a 2 month head start

Hey, good luck with your submission and looking forward to seeing the results!

[Gary]

Originally Posted by inaka

Definitely not for me, and I know I'm not alone.
Especially after watching vintage SGC reveal videos on YouTube. Many of us have given up on sending vintage cards to PSA since they're so terribly inconsistent in grading now. No thanks.




Hey, good luck with your submission and looking forward to seeing the results!

Not going to disagree with your take on PSA and vintage,i send mine to SGC and have for years..........the masses will disagree with both of us though.hence my statement about CGC getting their head out of their backside and making a real move for vintage.They (CGC) could if they made the effort and investment give us a real option.....i just do not see them doing it.

[thewesdub]

I bought this via eBay and it arrived today. I'm usually pretty good with SGC's grades, but this is a doozy in my book. There's no way this should be an 8...maybe a 5 or 6.

Technically the seller listed it correctly as an SGC 8. Would you return it to the seller or go to SGC? Curious for other's thoughts.

[brev87]

Originally Posted by thewesdub

I bought this via eBay and it arrived today. I'm usually pretty good with SGC's grades, but this is a doozy in my book. There's no way this should be an 8...maybe a 5 or 6.

Technically the seller listed it correctly as an SGC 8. Would you return it to the seller or go to SGC? Curious for other's thoughts.

Yikes. I'm surprised you bought that with those photos, unless the seller didn't show the back

I would send it back to the seller

[Gary]

Originally Posted by brev87

Yikes. I'm surprised you bought that with those photos, unless the seller didn't show the back

I would send it back to the seller

If the seller had no back picture......send it back to the seller,actually the damage is easy to see,im sure the seller knew it was there,he should have disclosed it imo.in all honesty the seller should have dealt with SGC before selling.who is the seller?just slimy thing to do imo.

[thewesdub]

Originally Posted by brev87

Yikes. I'm surprised you bought that with those photos, unless the seller didn't show the back

I would send it back to the seller

The seller photos did have a picture of the back but it didnt show that damage. The pictures from my post are SGC's scans. I ended up shipping it back to the seller. SGC wanted photos of the damage too, so I passed that along to the seller in case they make him whole.

[brev87]

Originally Posted by thewesdub

The seller photos did have a picture of the back but it didnt show that damage. The pictures from my post are SGC's scans. I ended up shipping it back to the seller. SGC wanted photos of the damage too, so I passed that along to the seller in case they make him whole.

Interesting. Keep us posted on what comes of this.

Sounds like the seller did something to the photos, either way definitely don't do business with them

[Gary]

Originally Posted by towerymt

~18 months later...and when is the coffin going in the ground exactly?

Looks like the holes being dug now with Peter leaving.......sometimes it sucks being right.

[discodanman45]

It appears SGC wants to grade around 100k cards a month and it looks like the bulk submission cancellation will get them there quickly. The first three weeks this month has resulted in 76.8k sports cards. They graded 182k cards in 2024 in July. Maybe they get to 120 max this month. With bulk submissions gone, this will decline again in August.

I think they are content grading cards at $15 at SGC to the general public. What I fear is that they will be using SGC as a training facility for graders and the best one's will be "promoted" to PSA. I really hope they stay around for vintage, because there is not another choice for many cards. CGC can grade most vintage cards, but the larger size cards, strip cards, and other weird sized cards are not worth sending into CGC with their BVG type slabbing in a baggy.

[inaka]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I think they are content grading cards at $15 at SGC to the general public.

I personally don't see $15/card lasting much longer.

After hearing that "interview" with Ryan Hoge today, he said he wants to shrink SGC and make SGC a boutique grading company.

That to me says they will keep the SGC brand, but they will probably drop TCG entirely from SGC, and maybe even modern sports. All of that will go to PSA.

And then for vintage, Collectors will probably raise SGC prices to at least $20/card and have SGC only grade vintage. I mean, how many "boutique" brands are ever cheaper than the mainstream brand? Basically never. SGC will become Five Guys, as PSA is already the McDonalds of grading.

To me they most definitely will keep SGC as a brand, but who knows at this point as maybe they'll "keep it going" with as much investment as John Fisher did to keep the A's going in Oakland. aka intentionally tarnish/ruin the brand for years until people are fed up, and then kill the brand blaming the apathy of public, forgetting they intentionally designed the apathy inducing policies in the first place. Sigh.

That said, Collector's is short-sighted and completely overplaying their hand in my opinion. They bought SGC essentially to block competition, but now that Peter Steinberg is gone from SGC effective immediately, with proper funding/backing, even by Fanatics, he could start a new entity called "VCG" (Vintage Card Grading) or whatever, and probably have instant legitimacy in the vintage grading world, especially if they simply implement the same processes (and senior graders) that used to be at SGC.

..or, at the very least, CGC or Beckett could poach him, and instantly give CGC vintage respectability, or re-energize even the Beckett brand for sports card grading.

Bottom line, this sucks and I don't see $15/card being the norm, especially if they want to "shrink" the volume of SGC to pre-pandemic levels.

[Giroux]

Personally just going to be done with grading altogether. Won't miss it.