Rafael Devers

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Danderlion

Yeah, there are a lot of stats to pick from. I like to use OPS+, which last I checked his was 195 (very stellar! and nearly his highest ever!). That's what my statement was based on. Didn't mean to derail the thread, sorry guys.

I hear you... you may find the discussion of OPS+, wRC+, and wOBA to be interesting above.

OPS+ suffers from improper weighting of SLG and OBP (thus why its inventor, Baseball Reference, stopped using it in their WAR calculation, I believe). The former getting more value than is fair, and the latter too little.

wRC+ isn't very comparable between seasons.

wOBA, I'd argue, is the cleanest stat to compare across seasons with proper weighting (as it is also the input to WAR).

What is Trout killing it at this year??? wOBACON ("wOBA on Contact")... that is clearly his career high... and it is better enough that his career worst CON ("contact") part of that equation is still leaving him at about average at wOBA vs. his own history.

[BigSlim16]

Originally Posted by pewe

I hear you... you may find the discussion of OPS+, wRC+, and wOBA to be interesting above.

OPS+ suffers from improper weighting of SLG and OBP (thus why its inventor, Baseball Reference, stopped using it in their WAR calculation, I believe). The former getting more value than is fair, and the latter too little.

wRC+ isn't very comparable between seasons.

wOBA, I'd argue, is the cleanest stat to compare across seasons with proper weighting (as it is also the input to WAR).

What is Trout killing it at this year??? wOBACON ("wOBA on Contact")... that is clearly his career high... and it is better enough that his career worst CON ("contact") part of that equation is still leaving him at about average at wOBA vs. his own history.

If the season ended today I’d have it
1. Judge
2. Yordan
3. Devers
4. Trout
5. J-Ram

But 2-5 are close, maybe even interchangeable. It’s gonna be awesome to watch and see how it plays out

[pewe]

Originally Posted by BigSlim16

If the season ended today I’d have it
1. Judge
2. Yordan
3. Devers
4. Trout
5. J-Ram

But 2-5 are close, maybe even interchangeable. It’s gonna be awesome to watch and see how it plays out

What will Devers need to do to overcome Judge? Assuming Judge continues to rake...

[BigSlim16]

Originally Posted by pewe

What will Devers need to do to overcome Judge? Assuming Judge continues to rake...

If Judge continues to rake, nothing. Nobody is catching him
If Judges slumps or gets hurt in the 2nd half and Devers gets 40+ HR and hits .310+ then I like his chances

[pewe]

Originally Posted by BigSlim16

If Judge continues to rake, nothing. Nobody is catching him
If Judges slumps or gets hurt in the 2nd half and Devers gets 40+ HR and hits .310+ then I like his chances

If Devers leads Judge in all offensive and defensive categories, except for HR (a real possibility... SLG would be the closest)... and Boston makes the playoffs... what would be the argument against Devers?

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by pewe

If Devers leads Judge in all offensive and defensive categories, except for HR (a real possibility... SLG would be the closest)... and Boston makes the playoffs... what would be the argument against Devers?

Lets start with Devers 10 errors putting him 13th for 3B alone. It ain't happenin' pawe.

[BigSlim16]

Originally Posted by pewe

If Devers leads Judge in all offensive and defensive categories, except for HR (a real possibility... SLG would be the closest)... and Boston makes the playoffs... what would be the argument against Devers?

Chicks dig the longball. It's a bit of a cop-out argument, but we've seen MVP races decided essentially by HR numbers (see 2017 NL MVP race between Stanton and Votto - I'll go to my grave saying that Votto should have won MVP that season and it's a disgrace that he didn't)

[pewe]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Lets start with Devers 10 errors putting him 13th for 3B alone. It ain't happenin' pawe.

He's still putting up more defensive value than Judge...

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by pewe

He's still putting up more defensive value than Judge...

Ur living a pipe dream at this point. He'd have even more errors if he could move his feet and touch more balls.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by BigSlim16

Chicks dig the longball. It's a bit of a cop-out argument, but we've seen MVP races decided essentially by HR numbers (see 2017 NL MVP race between Stanton and Votto - I'll go to my grave saying that Votto should have won MVP that season and it's a disgrace that he didn't)

Happened '19 Trout vs. Bregman, too... Trout only led in one category: HR

Although, in fairness... he did that while playing like 35 fewer games than Bregman, so I'm sure some projecting went into it. And an "awww shucks" attitude for Trout - giving him a bit of an honorary MVP.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Ur living a pipe dream at this point. He'd have even more errors if he could move his feet and touch more balls.

He's still putting up more defensive value than Judge...

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by pewe

He's still putting up more defensive value than Judge...

That's cute. He's also on a fringe playoff team while chasing in many major statistical categories. But you do you.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by cnewby

That's cute. He's also on a fringe playoff team while chasing in many major statistical categories. But you do you.

Maybe he's trailing some other players in a few stats (not many, though). But at least he's leading Judge in most... other than HR

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by pewe

Maybe he's trailing some other players in a few stats (not many, though). But at least he's leading Judge in most... other than HR

Looking forward to his 2022 MVP trophy then.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Looking forward to his 2022 MVP trophy then.

Perhaps the MVP voters will take pity on Judge, and offer him a Trout-esque memorial MVP? I wouldn't doubt he deserves it after the 2017 disgrace

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by pewe

Perhaps the MVP voters will take pity on Judge, and offer him a Trout-esque memorial MVP? I wouldn't doubt he deserves it after the 2017 disgrace

That's it, get the excuse out there early.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by cnewby

That's it, get the excuse out there early.

I'll look for more reasons, but if Judge can't overtake the crowded field, that is probably a great fallback argument in his favor. At least it seems to have been a useful criteria at least a few times in the recent past.

[fulltritty]

How many walk offs has Devers hit to win the game for his team this year?

You would think being 40 pounds lighter, Devers could lead Judge in stolen bases.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

How many walk offs has Devers hit to win the game for his team this year?

You would think being 40 pounds lighter, Devers could lead Judge in stolen bases.

Devers has had more game tying and Go-ahead RBI than any player in baseball since 2019... [proof I pay attention to the NESN announcers during games ]

(If Judge could get more hits, maybe he would be more competitive on that stat)

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by pewe

Devers has had more game tying and Go-ahead RBI than any player in baseball since 2019... [proof I pay attention to the NESN announcers during games ]

(If Judge could get more hits, maybe he would be more competitive on that stat)

Glad we're pulling stats from arbitrary timeframes.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by cnewby

Glad we're pulling stats from arbitrary timeframes.

Wish I knew how to pull it myself

BUT... I wouldn't doubt it is harder for Judge to be ahead on this stat in '22... why??? Yankees are playing with a lead much more often than the Red Sox. Wish it weren't true, but it does stack the cards against Judge in trying to compete on a stat like this.

[allstarauction]

One of my only favorable PSA subs recently... Grew the Pop by over 25% on this card.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by pewe

Wish I knew how to pull it myself

BUT... I wouldn't doubt it is harder for Judge to be ahead on this stat in '22... why??? Yankees are playing with a lead much more often than the Red Sox. Wish it weren't true, but it does stack the cards against Judge in trying to compete on a stat like this.

Well you could for starters look at Topps Now cards for walk off wins for the two of them. It's probably only a start though as I'm not sure Topps would do everyone of them; although Judge seems to be a popular card to purchase when they put them out.

By the way, for all of your grabbing at straws, the Yankees with that great record still have the most walk-off wins in the majors this year with 10.
They have also won 22 of 42 games they trailed in.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Well you could for starters look at Topps Now cards for walk off wins for the two of them. It's probably only a start though as I'm not sure Topps would do everyone of them; although Judge seems to be a popular card to purchase when they put them out.

By the way, for all of your grabbing at straws, the Yankees with that great record still have the most walk-off wins in the majors this year with 10.
They have also won 22 of 42 games they trailed in.

Fortunately there appears to be an abundance of straw

So you are implying a walk-off win is worth more than a win earned earlier in the game???

[seanbros55]

Originally Posted by pewe

Fortunately there appears to be an abundance of straw

So you are implying a walk-off win is worth more than a win earned earlier in the game???

Nope.

He’s implying that a walk-off win turned into a Topps Now card is worth more than a regular walk-off win.