2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[Jgil316]

So if wearing masks does nothing to help protect people, will someone PLEASE explain to me why the Healthcare workers in the USA aren't ALL infected?
Also, I would love to know WHY masks have been worn during surgery for people the last, oh 100 or so years?

Finally, to anti-maskers: Go have surgery and tell the surgeon and help staff you do NOT want them to wear a mask while operating on you.

SMDH

[coachnip13]

Bovada changes since yesterday:

Florida (Republican favorite) jumped from -150 to -165
Iowa (Republican favorite) fell from -185 to -150
Texas (Republican favorite) jumped from -360 to -400

Nevada (Democrat favorite) jumped from -280 to -350
New Hampshire (Democrat favorite) jumped from -400 to -450
Wisconsin (Democrat favorite) jumped from -260 to -300

[coachnip13]

Election odds changed slightly....

Biden went from -180 to -175
Trummp went from +150 to +145

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

So if wearing masks does nothing to help protect people, will someone PLEASE explain to me why the Healthcare workers in the USA aren't ALL infected?
Also, I would love to know WHY masks have been worn during surgery for people the last, oh 100 or so years?

Finally, to anti-maskers: Go have surgery and tell the surgeon and help staff you do NOT want them to wear a mask while operating on you.

SMDH

You're not talking specifically about THIS virus. Masks can protect (and help prevent) against certain things... this virus is not one of them.

More people are starting to talk about it openly and as I said three months ago, I suspect you'll see the science roll around to "masks do nothing". Here's a piece in today's WSJ.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masks-a...7026?mod=e2two

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

So if wearing masks does nothing to help protect people, will someone PLEASE explain to me why the Healthcare workers in the USA aren't ALL infected?
Also, I would love to know WHY masks have been worn during surgery for people the last, oh 100 or so years?

Finally, to anti-maskers: Go have surgery and tell the surgeon and help staff you do NOT want them to wear a mask while operating on you.

SMDH

COVID doesn't seem to care whether or not a state or local municipality has a mask mandate.

[coachnip13]

*The French now have around 1,000 percent more daily cases they had when they mandated masks, despite having one of the highest mask compliance levels in the world.

*Spain was not far behind its French neighbor with a mandate. Spain required masks when cases were near zero and has the highest compliance with mask-wearing in all Europe. Now Spain is at around 1,500 percent the level of cases compared to when it mandated masks.

*Similar results have been found in Ireland, Portugal, Israel, and many other countries. No matter how strictly mask laws are enforced nor the level of mask compliance the population follows, cases all fall and rise around the same time.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Well for everyone of those Trump signs there's a video of a Trump supporter being attacked verbally or physically. They're not hard to find if you look.
Personally, I won't wear at hat because I'm just not up to having to deal with some 18 year old girl getting in my face out in public. Its a no win situation that I'll avoid thank you very much.
Yard signs and bumper stickers as well. No need to test your theory and find out you're wrong by having my car keyed or windows broken out.
I'm not one who wears political hats or use bumper stickers/yard signs but if I was and was supporting Biden I wouldn't have these concerns.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

So way to miss my point. I'm not saying there aren't shy Trump voters. There is also shy Biden voters. Some people just don't want to share who they voted for. I'm getting shunned by my family a bit for voting for Biden and I didn't even say that I did, I just said I didn't vote for Trump.

I kind of wish we could go back to not being so open with who we supported. It feels like a professional sports team now. You wear hats and shirts of your candidate. Fly flags and put bumper stickers on your car. For what? To me, if you are doing that, either side, you are just looking for confrontation OR you are way too proud of who you are voting for. Remember, these politicians work for you, yet we are making them into gods, something the founders wanted us to never do.

This election year has been incredibly divisive and both parties are to blame in some shape or form.

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

So way to miss my point. I'm not saying there aren't shy Trump voters. There is also shy Biden voters. Some people just don't want to share who they voted for. I'm getting shunned by my family a bit for voting for Biden and I didn't even say that I did, I just said I didn't vote for Trump.

I kind of wish we could go back to not being so open with who we supported. It feels like a professional sports team now. You wear hats and shirts of your candidate. Fly flags and put bumper stickers on your car. For what? To me, if you are doing that, either side, you are just looking for confrontation OR you are way too proud of who you are voting for. Remember, these politicians work for you, yet we are making them into gods, something the founders wanted us to never do.

This election year has been incredibly divisive and both parties are to blame in some shape or form.

To be fair look at how many look at LeBron James like this, just because he can dribble a ball and is good at shootyhoops. Our culture deitizes (even a word?) The dumbest most irrelevant in the scheme of life things.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

To be fair look at how many look at LeBron James like this, just because he can dribble a ball and is good at shootyhoops. Our culture deitizes (even a word?) The dumbest most irrelevant in the scheme of life things.

To me, someone idolizing LeBron James is different than what I am seeing from people who supporting some of these political candidates. Also, LeBron got there due to his skill, people like our politicians got there because we put them there. They work for us. We should be their gods, not the other way around.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

So way to miss my point. I'm not saying there aren't shy Trump voters. There is also shy Biden voters. Some people just don't want to share who they voted for. I'm getting shunned by my family a bit for voting for Biden and I didn't even say that I did, I just said I didn't vote for Trump.



I kind of wish we could go back to not being so open with who we supported. It feels like a professional sports team now. You wear hats and shirts of your candidate. Fly flags and put bumper stickers on your car. For what? To me, if you are doing that, either side, you are just looking for confrontation OR you are way too proud of who you are voting for. Remember, these politicians work for you, yet we are making them into gods, something the founders wanted us to never do.



This election year has been incredibly divisive and both parties are to blame in some shape or form.

Eh. I just changed my Facebook profile to reflect that I'm voting for Trump/Pence. I'm not ashamed to let my friends and family know my political leanings as they're normal people.
Around random people I don't know, I'll pass.
I do get a chuckle from those who still have Hillary, Bernie Sanders, McCain, Romney, or any other failed candidate's bumper sticker on their car though.

Edit: I'd also add that 4 years ago 1/3 of the Democrats boycotted Trump's inauguration, so if you're really wanting to recognize when things turned ugly you'd need to look further back than just this year.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Jgil316]

I know we can all go round and round on this issue.
To use specific countries to say masks do not work is difficult, at best. Hell - here in the USA we have 40% or so that don't believe in wearing masks.
To think a country with a mask mandate has 100% compliance is inaccurate at best.

Once again, I will point to South Korea.
First case reported the same day as the USA and they are MUCH closer to the epicenter of the virus outbreak. Why does South Korea have this virus much better contained than the USA?

We have people that spend so much time and energy trying to "prove" masks don't work instead of stepping back and opening their mind to science.

Right now, the viral load in the USA is so high - masks may help but are not going to be enough to mitigate further transmission.

Wisconsin, right now has a higher infection per 100,000 people than did NYC at their height of infection. Mostly rural vs. Condensed metropolis.
This data tells us the viral load there is extremely high and going up.

I implore the people of this thread, it is one thing to lose one of you to a ban or suspension - it is completely another to lose you to a virus.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by Astros19

I do get a chuckle from those who still have Hillary, Bernie Sanders, McCain, Romney, or any other failed candidate's bumper sticker on their car though.

Mondale-Ferraro: America Needs a Change

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

To me, someone idolizing LeBron James is different than what I am seeing from people who supporting some of these political candidates. Also, LeBron got there due to his skill, people like our politicians got there because we put them there. They work for us. We should be their gods, not the other way around.

All in what you put stock in. Trump has done more for me and my country than lebron james ever will, so it makes more sense for me to wear something Trump than lebron. Lebron doesn't give 2 craps about this country or the people in it, but I know that the people that wear his apparel aren't wearing it because they think he does. Either way, I admit it's silly to wear something with another guys name on it, but people will always do it, and I don't see it being a huge problem.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

We have people that spend so much time and energy trying to "prove" masks don't work instead of stepping back and opening their mind to science.

Here we go.

If it's "science", you should be able to easily show us that masks are indeed effective against COVID transmission.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by coachnip13

Here we go.

If it's "science", you should be able to easily show us that masks are indeed effective against COVID transmission.

If the CDC is recommending them, then I have no issues with wearing them. The CDC is full of people much smarter than me who know much more about this than I ever will.

[captionwanker]

Originally Posted by Astros19

Eh. I just changed my Facebook profile to reflect that I'm voting for Trump/Pence. I'm not ashamed to let my friends and family know my political leanings as they're normal people.
Around random people I don't know, I'll pass.
I do get a chuckle from those who still have Hillary, Bernie Sanders, McCain, Romney, or any other failed candidate's bumper sticker on their car though.

Edit: I'd also add that 4 years ago 1/3 of the Democrats boycotted Trump's inauguration, so if you're really wanting to recognize when things turned ugly you'd need to look further back than just this year.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

This is what's weird and different about 2016 and 2020, I see less public support for Biden/Harris. I been through multiple cities and multiples airports in the past few weeks and I barely see any Biden merchandise. Many very liberal cities like MSP, SEA, PDX, LAX, ATL. I don't see any Biden car bumper stickers, Biden shirts, Biden hats, Biden flags on cars or lawns. In 2016, I'm with Her merchandise was everywhere on the streets like it was the World Cup Final.

You can say people are shy about supporting Trump, but I see more Trump and MAGA hats than anything Biden. I guess people aren't too confident that Biden will win. Americans typically are fairweather fans of their local teams and I bet people are afraid to back the probable loser. If Biden wins, liberals will definitely rush out and become supporters like overnight Super Bowl Champions fans.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

I know we can all go round and round on this issue.
To use specific countries to say masks do not work is difficult, at best. Hell - here in the USA we have 40% or so that don't believe in wearing masks.
To think a country with a mask mandate has 100% compliance is inaccurate at best.

Once again, I will point to South Korea.
First case reported the same day as the USA and they are MUCH closer to the epicenter of the virus outbreak. Why does South Korea have this virus much better contained than the USA?

We have people that spend so much time and energy trying to "prove" masks don't work instead of stepping back and opening their mind to science.

Right now, the viral load in the USA is so high - masks may help but are not going to be enough to mitigate further transmission.

Wisconsin, right now has a higher infection per 100,000 people than did NYC at their height of infection. Mostly rural vs. Condensed metropolis.
This data tells us the viral load there is extremely high and going up.

I implore the people of this thread, it is one thing to lose one of you to a ban or suspension - it is completely another to lose you to a virus.

ahem...

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

If the CDC is recommending them, then I have no issues with wearing them. The CDC is full of people much smarter than me who know much more about this than I ever will.

I have no issues with wearing them either, but the CDC isn't infallible. Data does not support the idea that masks are having much of an impact at all.

[coachnip13]

Originally Posted by cnewby

ahem...

Yep. Multiple specific countries? Invalid. But let me show you one other specific country to make my point!

[NeedChapmans]

Lockdowns were the craze; then WHO decided "the cure was worse than the disease"

Give it time. They'll come around on the idea of masks as well.

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

I know we can all go round and round on this issue.
To use specific countries to say masks do not work is difficult, at best. Hell - here in the USA we have 40% or so that don't believe in wearing masks.
To think a country with a mask mandate has 100% compliance is inaccurate at best.

Once again, I will point to South Korea.
First case reported the same day as the USA and they are MUCH closer to the epicenter of the virus outbreak. Why does South Korea have this virus much better contained than the USA?

We have people that spend so much time and energy trying to "prove" masks don't work instead of stepping back and opening their mind to science.

Right now, the viral load in the USA is so high - masks may help but are not going to be enough to mitigate further transmission.

Wisconsin, right now has a higher infection per 100,000 people than did NYC at their height of infection. Mostly rural vs. Condensed metropolis.
This data tells us the viral load there is extremely high and going up.

I implore the people of this thread, it is one thing to lose one of you to a ban or suspension - it is completely another to lose you to a virus.

So while we are talking about science and people's feeling. I will again ask a question that I have never really been able to get an answer on:

Let's say that from day one President Trump said "Sorry states I'm going to make it mandatory that everyone wear a mask and it will be enforced by the National Guards and Federal officers."

Those that want to say that Trump is a tyrant, etc. What would your reaction be if this would've happened, because it continually sounds like that people feel that is what he was supposed to have done??

Continual blaming of Trump and saying this is all his fault so tell me again why other countries are having issues??

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

Those that want to say that Trump is a tyrant, etc. What would your reaction be if this would've happened, because it continually sounds like that people feel that is what he was supposed to have done??

Continual blaming of Trump and saying this is all his fault so tell me again why other countries are having issues??

You must understand a fundamental difference between conservative and progressive ... progressives believe the wrong person holds the power. Conservatives believe the power should not exist.

To Trump's credit; he has not once, tried to mandate anything. Biden tells you right away if he wins, get ready for some new rules (which he's unlikely to be successful with but who knows). People who line up at the booth and willfully trade away their freedoms simply so their candidate is in charge are crazy. Never ever ever ever ever gives those up.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by captionwanker

This is what's weird and different about 2016 and 2020, I see less public support for Biden/Harris. I been through multiple cities and multiples airports in the past few weeks and I barely see any Biden merchandise. Many very liberal cities like MSP, SEA, PDX, LAX, ATL. I don't see any Biden car bumper stickers, Biden shirts, Biden hats, Biden flags on cars or lawns. In 2016, I'm with Her merchandise was everywhere on the streets like it was the World Cup Final.

You can say people are shy about supporting Trump, but I see more Trump and MAGA hats than anything Biden. I guess people aren't too confident that Biden will win. Americans typically are fairweather fans of their local teams and I bet people are afraid to back the probable loser. If Biden wins, liberals will definitely rush out and become supporters like overnight Super Bowl Champions fans.

I think that even people that are voting Biden don't really love him. Biden hasn't gotten the party excited and I agree I haven't seen people wearing Biden stuff. He just simply isn't Trump, which is enough for a lot of people. He's nothing to be excited about.

[Boo]

I almost want Biden to win to watch the S hit the fan when he tries a national mask mandate.

I wear a mask at work and when I go out but know a ton of people who don't.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

I think that even people that are voting Biden don't really love him. Biden hasn't gotten the party excited and I agree I haven't seen people wearing Biden stuff. He just simply isn't Trump, which is enough for a lot of people. He's nothing to be excited about.

For sure, probably in excess of 50% voting for Biden because he isn't Trump. 2024 will be interesting if Biden wins and Republicans actually put a good, likeable candidate up against him.