Wander Franco Rookie Card Debate (2021 Bowman's Best vs. 2022 RC logo cards)

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Bcr

Has their been any other big players in the hobby, other than Beckett, calling Bowmans Best the only rookie cards for those players?

what is considered a "big player"?

[Bcr]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

what is considered a "big player"?

Fair question. People with major influence over the hobby similar to Beckett I suppose. Other Grading companies, big breakers, social media influencers.

[dashcol]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Over the last 2 months of this thread I have not seen a single person on the #BB50 side quote Beckett. The people on that side took their position a full week before Beckett made a post

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Strawman argument. Literally nobody here is saying that BB50 is the RC because of Beckett. They are agreeing with the arguments put forth by Beckett.

I never said people in this thread made that claim, I said people. There are other forums than this one.

The reason I asked here is because there is no need to start a different thread to ask the question, this one exists, so this is where I should have asked the question.

It has been talked about in here as well….

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

I believe that’s the case, but I’m no expert on the subject.

Which Wander Bowman are you referring to? His 1st Bowman is numbered BCP-100, and his Bowman Draft is BDC-93. That clearly designated them as prospect cards and not RCs. The main thing with BB50 is that it’s numbered right along with the vets and rookies (1-100). If they were numbered TP-1 thru TP-30 (the way they’ve numbered the prospects in the past), none of this would be an issue.

Beckett’s take on player’s RC (any player) is something worth noting, but in the end, I think both sides agree they aren’t the end-all-be-all.

At least MarlinsFan states it’s not the end all be all, but it’s worth noting.

Originally Posted by oplum29

wth does that even mean? (RC)

sheesh....if Beckett already said it's not a rookie, then it's over isn't it? despite Topps putting the logo on it?

Beckett said it, so the discussion is over….

Originally Posted by BigSeph

Rookie Card ≠ rookie card

The RC logo is based on agreement between the MLB/MLBPA/card manufacturers. There have been rookie cards before and during the use of the RC logo that didn't have the RC logo. There have been cards with the RC logo that weren't rookie cards.

If Beckett sticks to their guns and calls these rookie cards and gives the (RC) to all future cards with the RC logo, this is an open and shut case.

The only question is whether or not Beckett gets pressured enough to change their stance, but since no one at Topps responded to their inquiries Beckett has no reason to change anything.

People can keep rooting against 21 BB but I keep getting outbid on cards and case prices keep going up.

Meanwhile I just hit 6 S1 Wanders in a jumbo case and I see they are selling for around 10 bucks each. Yeah they are real hot.

Becketts word makes it open and shut….

Didn’t even have to go back two months to see it stated that Beckett decides it.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Bcr

Fair question. People with major influence over the hobby similar to Beckett I suppose. Other Grading companies, big breakers, social media influencers.

i have not seen anything really, but i think most influencers and especially Breakers are not interested in offending Topps. its in their best interest to pump the 2022 stuff, as it is current, readily available and what they have pre-ordered for the rest of the year

[Technochocolate]

So I was in a card shop recently, and there were some kids shopping around. They were interested in getting some Wander rookies. (side note: the hobby is healthy! Fret not, kids are still here and getting into the hobby)

So a discussion breaks out between the shop and the customer about options....they mention both his first prospect card and 2022 Series 1 cards, both shown in cases. They talk about all the options, about buying singles vs. wax, and which singles are better, which wax is better, etc.

Bowman's Best never comes up during this. And you know what? I'm pretty happy. Imagine explaining this mess to new collectors. Even as I know 21 BB is the true rookie card, I'm more and more fine with the hobby treating the 2022 cards as the rookie cards.

But on the other hand, this still doesn't mean that the 21 BB *isn't* a rookie card. It is, and forever will be. But it's ok for the 2022 cards to be more valued, and more desired. It's ok, everyone. Let it be.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by Technochocolate

So I was in a card shop recently, and there were some kids shopping around. They were interested in getting some Wander rookies. (side note: the hobby is healthy! Fret not, kids are still here and getting into the hobby)

So a discussion breaks out between the shop and the customer about options....they mention both his first prospect card and 2022 Series 1 cards, both shown in cases. They talk about all the options, about buying singles vs. wax, and which singles are better, which wax is better, etc.

Bowman's Best never comes up during this. And you know what? I'm pretty happy. Imagine explaining this mess to new collectors. Even as I know 21 BB is the true rookie card, I'm more and more fine with the hobby treating the 2022 cards as the rookie cards.

But on the other hand, this still doesn't mean that the 21 BB *isn't* a rookie card. It is, and forever will be. But it's ok for the 2022 cards to be more valued, and more desired. It's ok, everyone. Let it be.

I was told that #BB50 believers would be traumatizing children on social media by telling them that their Wander cards are not rookie cards. Is that not true?

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Technochocolate

So I was in a card shop recently, and there were some kids shopping around. They were interested in getting some Wander rookies. (side note: the hobby is healthy! Fret not, kids are still here and getting into the hobby)

So a discussion breaks out between the shop and the customer about options....they mention both his first prospect card and 2022 Series 1 cards, both shown in cases. They talk about all the options, about buying singles vs. wax, and which singles are better, which wax is better, etc.

Bowman's Best never comes up during this. And you know what? I'm pretty happy. Imagine explaining this mess to new collectors. Even as I know 21 BB is the true rookie card, I'm more and more fine with the hobby treating the 2022 cards as the rookie cards.

But on the other hand, this still doesn't mean that the 21 BB *isn't* a rookie card. It is, and forever will be. But it's ok for the 2022 cards to be more valued, and more desired. It's ok, everyone. Let it be.

If the hobby shop didn’t have BB50 in stock, how do you think they might have guided the kids???


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[LVDan]

I just like the passion.


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[cardsin47]

*Dupe

[pewe]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

As for Bowman….. don’t you think that they know, that we know, that they know, that we know what has happened here?

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[Goldie]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

i have not seen anything really, but i think most influencers and especially Breakers are not interested in offending Topps. its in their best interest to pump the 2022 stuff, as it is current, readily available and what they have pre-ordered for the rest of the year

I can't imagine a lot of breakers saying, "You know all of that 2022 product we have coming in for Rays spots? It's worth a fraction of what you're paying for it, unless you really like Vidal Brujan!"

[pewe]

Is this for real??? Do we think 1st edition insert autos will generate sustained enthusiasm?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2022-Topps-...-127632-2357-0


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[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by Technochocolate

So I was in a card shop recently, and there were some kids shopping around. They were interested in getting some Wander rookies. (side note: the hobby is healthy! Fret not, kids are still here and getting into the hobby)

So a discussion breaks out between the shop and the customer about options....they mention both his first prospect card and 2022 Series 1 cards, both shown in cases. They talk about all the options, about buying singles vs. wax, and which singles are better, which wax is better, etc.

Bowman's Best never comes up during this. And you know what? I'm pretty happy. Imagine explaining this mess to new collectors. Even as I know 21 BB is the true rookie card, I'm more and more fine with the hobby treating the 2022 cards as the rookie cards.

But on the other hand, this still doesn't mean that the 21 BB *isn't* a rookie card. It is, and forever will be. But it's ok for the 2022 cards to be more valued, and more desired. It's ok, everyone. Let it be.

If the shop owner has any business sense then it's not in their interest to promote BB50 as a rookie card and potentially dampen his sales for the rest of 2022 Wanders, not to mention all the other yet to be called up players.

If they happen to have sealed boxes for an inflated price in the shop so soon after release, they are at least aware. It's been barely two months. Give it time to settle.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Pacmeyer

If the shop owner has any business sense then it's not in their interest to promote BB50 as a rookie card and potentially dampen his sales for the rest of 2022 Wanders, not to mention all the other yet to be called up players.

If they happen to have sealed boxes for an inflated price in their shop so soon after release, they are at least aware. It's been barely two months since the cards were released. Give it time to settle.

I have a similar guess. Plus, most shops have no/minimal BBest or BB50 inventory, and they can’t earn $$ selling things they don’t stock.


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[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I never said people in this thread made that claim, I said people. There are other forums than this one.

The reason I asked here is because there is no need to start a different thread to ask the question, this one exists, so this is where I should have asked the question.

It has been talked about in here as well….



At least MarlinsFan states it’s not the end all be all, but it’s worth noting.



Beckett said it, so the discussion is over….



Becketts word makes it open and shut….

Didn’t even have to go back two months to see it stated that Beckett decides it.

It was a rookie card before Beckett opined on it.

We view it as a rookie card. Beckett reinforces that belief.

We view it as a rookie card based on historical norms, Beckett views it as a rookie card based on historical norms.

It solidifies what we believe, we don't believe it because Beckett says it.

And if Beckett calls Julio and Witt 2022 Update cards (RC)s and not RCs, they continue to solidify it.

It's an open and shut case if Beckett sticks to their guns.

I don't know why you can't see the nuance in what you quoted vs what was alleged.

[MoreToppsPlease]

The hobby has evolved. Nowadays:

* sellers always looking to maximize profit don’t want any definitions because it reduces their ability to influence others into buying something, mostly using FOMO and greed as their tools. Topps is the biggest seller.
* licensors ultimately run the (baseball) game…AND the hobby. People who supposedly will only buy licensed cards need to support the written rules and their intent. This is a good thing because sellers can’t be trusted…look at what Topps did.

[Goldie]

Originally Posted by pewe

Is this for real??? Do we think 1st edition insert autos will generate sustained enthusiasm?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2022-Topps-...-127632-2357-0


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I just can't understand ever dropping coin on an "autograph" card that the player was never probably even within 100 miles of, let alone physically sign.

I would honestly think an on-card forgery would have more eye appeal.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

It was a rookie card before Beckett opined on it.

We view it as a rookie card. Beckett reinforces that belief.

We view it as a rookie card based on historical norms, Beckett views it as a rookie card based on historical norms.

It solidifies what we believe, we don't believe it because Beckett says it.

And if Beckett calls Julio and Witt 2022 Update cards (RC)s and not RCs, they continue to solidify it.

It's an open and shut case if Beckett sticks to their guns.

I don't know why you can't see the nuance in what you quoted vs what was alleged.

Beckett isn’t taken seriously and by 99% of people and used only to only suit their personal needs. Beckett’s main revenue comes from businesses that have agendas and sell cards.

[Goldie]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Beckett isn’t taken seriously and by 99% of people and used only to only suit their personal needs. Beckett’s main revenue comes from businesses that have agendas and sell cards.

I just searched "key rookies more topps please" and the first two links were Beckett pages. Make of that what you will.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by pewe

Is this for real??? Do we think 1st edition insert autos will generate sustained enthusiasm?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2022-Topps-...-127632-2357-0


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I mean, it’s just an asking price. They can ask for whatever they want. I think 1st Edition will follow the cycle most new release follow (spike then come down), but I do think it will be the preferred S1 card to own once the dust settles. I think the biggest hit will be to S1 base, a card already destined to be at $8, might quickly become a $4-$5 card, even for raw NM copies.

[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Beckett isn’t taken seriously and by 99% of people and used only to only suit their personal needs. Beckett’s main revenue comes from businesses that have agendas and sell cards.

I can show you why your opinion is irrelevant in 2 pictures.





When the world googles "Wander Franco rookie card" they are led to the Beckett article as the #1 hit (apparently Google takes Beckett seriously when it comes to sports cards) and the #1 card on that page is....... BB50.

Tissue?

[pewe]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

I mean, it’s just an asking price. They can ask for whatever they want. I think 1st Edition will follow the cycle most new release follow (spike then come down), but I do think it will be the preferred S1 card to own once the dust settles. I think the biggest hit will be to S1 base, a card already destined to be at $8, might quickly become a $4-$5 card, even for raw NM copies.

My comment is less about 1st edition base cards, and more specifically about the “baseball stars” insert auto from that set. I’ve seen a couple trade for $$$$, and it blows my mind that it would have that much interest. Mostly because it’s an insert and sticker auto… honestly, same for several normal series 1 sticker autos on insert cards… I’ve never seen them get so much love for other players before.


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[cardsin47]

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[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by pewe

My comment is less about 1st edition base cards, and more specifically about the “baseball stars” insert auto from that set. I’ve seen a couple trade for $$$$, and it blows my mind that it would have that much interest. Mostly because it’s an insert and sticker auto… honestly, same for several normal series 1 sticker autos on insert cards… I’ve never seen them get so much love for other players before.


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Oh, okay. No, I don’t see the value holding for those cards much at all. At least, not in step with on-card auto. And at current prices, it’s a horrible buy. In general though, pewe, you have to be feeling pretty good about your BB50 refractor stash, huh? Like the card or not, I don’t see it going away any time too soon.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

I mean, it’s just an asking price. They can ask for whatever they want. I think 1st Edition will follow the cycle most new release follow (spike then come down), but I do think it will be the preferred S1 card to own once the dust settles. I think the biggest hit will be to S1 base, a card already destined to be at $8, might quickly become a $4-$5 card, even for raw NM copies.

1st edition is just gimmicky. A first edition book is the one that's printed first... easy and simple. Are the Topps cards actually printed first or even arrive before the regular release? Besides another logo, is there anything else that distinguishes a 1st ed release?

I have some 1st edition cards (2020 Bowman) so I'm not criticizing anyone who buys them. I just can't think of any reason for these cards to exist, besides the obvious of more money for Topps.