Beckett suing COMC

[cardsrus1]

Originally Posted by mrwalken

Good news for those cheering for COMC -- questionable counsel for Beckett. Also, this gem:

11. Beckett is the only recognized publisher in the world that values sports memorabilia.

I was also wondering where they came up with that claim.


http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/

[amazingpacks]

Originally Posted by sjscout

Oh no, the sky is falling.

Its not who is right or wrong. This is serious. If you had a piece of jewelry,gun,car or stocks worth $20,000 sitting in company XYZ and you read that XYZ is getting sued by BIG ABC. Would you leave your assets sitting in that company facilities and think about who will win the suit ? Think "NAH, XYZ will be ok!" or think about your own assets and plan for the future?

COMC can be 100% right, but the outcome can still be a disaster for the users.

[mrwalken]

It appears that the complaint essentially boils down to this argument:

29. Because it is in possession of the database, COMC is in the position to, and likely will, misappropriate millions of lines of valuable data that contain Beckett's trade secrets.

Note that the complaint is silent about the fact that Beckett prices have not been displayed on the site for free for quite some time. Hence the importance/role of Beckett prices to COMC operation is greatly overstated, imo.

The checklists are obviously vital, but it's not clear to me what could possibly be a trade secret about the checklists. And I imagine creating checklists from scratch, while a task, is far from unmanageable.

Don't think this complaint will go very far. Not legal advice (but full disclosure, I am a lawyer).

[Cactuspies]

Originally Posted by amazingpacks

This is serious . Beckett ownership is doing a full email spam campaign and trying hard at capturing a bigger hobby piece. Beckett has deep pockets to ruin smaller competitors.

Not good.

Originally Posted by sjscout

Oh no, the sky is falling.

didn't they just team up w/burbank to make a sportlots jr type venture?

buy sportlots, team up w/ebay to make a catalogue, I mean how many years of data is sitting on ebay servers.

has anyone actually figured out where bv comes from? back in the day them and tuff stuff hardly had the same pricing. they always said it was from shows and what not, and when they flipped over to that gawd awful site a few years back the pricing was supposed to be real time as provided by the users and other means, still every A&G jersey card is $8-$3 per BV on commons, but they always sell for under a buck to maybe $2 for commons.

I have some nice raw cards from the 80's that I'd like full BV on then.

if it's really about checklist data, where does beckett get that information from and why are they available to everyone for free? - scr usually has all the info way before beckett, and not to mention everyone posting odds and the pre-sell flyers with a lot of the information.

there has to be more we are missing. someome is butthurt

[XL5]

COMC should call up Zistle. Zistle checklists are a bit lacking but it's a framework.


Also, as far as COMC's finances go, I would hope they have a legal fund set aside like most companies do. This litigation hurts but defending shouldn't damage their cash flow as much if they did the responsible thing and put aside cash for a rainy day...in court.

[cardsrus1]

Originally Posted by Cactuspies

has anyone actually figured out where bv comes from?

[Swipe79]

I read through the complaint - there are an awful lot of spelling and grammatical errors in there...that's the teacher and former businessman in me shaking my head.

The two complaints - COMC is trying to steal Beckett BV (This is the largest load of crap I've heard of in a long while) and COMC is trying to steal the database.

Beckett BV is so irrelevant that it is ridiculous - as previously stated, I can pretty much tell you the opening value on any common relic card before Beckett ever posts the data - $8.00. Where is the precise pricing mechanism that needs to be protected? Is that something you had to pay extra for? The COMC model shows ACTUAL SALES data and is based on sales conducted via THEIR SITE with THEIR DATA.

Regarding the database...how can Beckett claim that information that is available to the general public is secret and their sole property? When I was a kid collecting in the 1980s, I created my own checklist each year to help complete the sets I wanted. I never used Beckett for that - just a pad of paper and a pencil. The numbers, player names, set names, serial numbering, and the rest are all things that can be re-created rather simply with a set of eyeballs and a keyboard. If this information is a private commodity wouldn't Topps, Panini, Leaf, etc. be the ones to claim the information as their property?

The "scraping" that Beckett claims happened sounds like COMC populating their site with information that it was contractually allowed to gather as part of the agreement they reached as partners.

This just shows that after years of "leading" the industry by being inept and lazy with their methods, they have no other recourse than to try and bully one of the more innovative and exciting companies in the hobby.

Down with Beckett!

[mrwalken]

Originally Posted by amazingpacks

Its not who is right or wrong. This is serious. If you had a piece of jewelry,gun,car or stocks worth $20,000 sitting in company XYZ and you read that XYZ is getting sued by BIG ABC. Would you leave your assets sitting in that company facilities and think about who will win the suit ? Think "NAH, XYZ will be ok!" or think about your own assets and plan for the future?

COMC can be 100% right, but the outcome can still be a disaster for the users.

Lawsuits between competitors aren't uncommon. This one doesn't seem to have much credibility. Beckett admits COMC had a valid license to use the information up until a couple of months ago. Then Beckett terminated the license for what appear to be suspect reasons, and promptly sued arguing essentially that COMC cannot survive without stealing Beckett's secrets. Just a few months later, COMC appears about ready to prove they can survive fine Beckett-free.

My guess is this gets bounced or settled soon.

[sjscout]

Originally Posted by mrwalken

It appears that the complaint essentially boils down to this argument:

29. Because it is in possession of the database, COMC is in the position to, and likely will, misappropriate millions of lines of valuable data that contain Beckett's trade secrets.

Note that the complaint is silent about the fact that Beckett prices have not been displayed on the site for free for quite some time. Hence the importance/role of Beckett prices to COMC operation is greatly overstated, imo.

The checklists are obviously vital, but it's not clear to me what could possibly be a trade secret about the checklists. And I imagine creating checklists from scratch, while a task, is far from unmanageable.

Don't think this complaint will go very far. Not legal advice (but full disclosure, I am a lawyer).

yes, i think this a Cover my ASSets type of thing by beckett. And it keeps comc on its toes.

[Swipe79]

One of my favorite quotes:

"The introduction of any competing product or pricing process will continue to irreparably injure Beckett"

So...they don't have much faith that their obviously vaunted and realistic pricing catalog will hold up under any type of competition.

[MI Rob]

Originally Posted by sjscout

Oh no, the sky is falling.

Lol seriously. Pretty sure we will all be OK.

[amazingpacks]

LOL. I personally seen businesses and people basically ruined and lose everything because of drawn out and court costs in lawsuits. Personally know of people that rather lose all there wealth instead of letting the "other side" win or settle for 1/2.

It gets really nasty. hope it is not personal between the two companies.

[frozenntimesports]

I wonder if there is anything proprietary about how COMC does things. On its face, it is a consignment company, but if some company in New Hampshire started a similar version I bet they'd be trying to sue them into oblivion.

[mrwalken]

Originally Posted by Swipe79

One of my favorite quotes:

"The introduction of any competing product or pricing process will continue to irreparably injure Beckett"

So...they don't have much faith that their obviously vaunted and realistic pricing catalog will hold up under any type of competition.

Yeah, if I had to guess, I would say what motivated this was COMC's transition from using Beckett BV to COMC's own historical data. Even with the limited data it has, COMC can probably produce a price guide far more accurate than Beckett's joke of a price guide. And that scares Beckett.

[GoBeavs]

I guess this means the grading part of COMC is going away...

Part of me understands what Beckett is doing in trying to break the competition. However, the amount of negative publicity this will generate for them seems to far outweigh any benefit. This is just nasty, and reeks of desperation.

[amazingpacks]

might be to late, but comc should take down all blogs,tweets and online statements. Some past statement is going to bite them.

If anyone from comc is reading this. i am sure your lawyers told you. Take all online company statement down asap.

[mrwalken]

Originally Posted by frozenntimesports

I wonder if there is anything proprietary about how COMC does things. On its face, it is a consignment company, but if some company in New Hampshire started a similar version I bet they'd be trying to sue them into oblivion.

COMC has a couple patents related to bulk image gathering (e.g., of sports cards):

Patent US7924314 - Bulk image gathering system and method - Google Patents
Patent US8498477 - Bulk image gathering system and method - Google Patents

These patents at least appear to relate to something protectable (as opposed to checklists)

[sjscout]

Originally Posted by amazingpacks

might be to late, but comc should take down all blogs,tweets and online statements. Some past statement is going to bite them.

If anyone from comc is reading this. i am sure your lawyers told you. Take all online company statement down asap.

as if this information hasnt already been looked at by their lawyers.
Calm down Chicken Little

[amazingpacks]

Originally Posted by sjscout

as if this information hasnt already been looked at by their lawyers.
Calm down Chicken Little

i am just laughing. i dont care what happens to anyone else stuff, it is up to you with what you do .


Just help out the settlement and send in more cards. that would be the best solution to be honest. instead of data entry, we all should send in 1000 cards and help comc settle with beckett.

not sure if all lawyers are the same.

[Jim's cards]

This has April fools written all over it. The mispellings alone put up the red flag, not to mention only one site is reporting it.

[mrwalken]

Originally Posted by Jim's cards

This has April fools written all over it. The mispellings alone put up the red flag, not to mention only one site is reporting it.

Would be a good one, but I can confirm this was filed in the Western District of Washington on Friday.

Edit: Sorry, the above is wrong. It was removed from state court to the Western District of Washington on Friday. But anyways, not a joke.

[03supto]

Originally Posted by mrwalken

Would be a good one, but I can confirm this was filed in the Western District of Washington on Friday.

Edit: Sorry, the above is wrong. It was removed from state court to the Western District of Washington on Friday. But anyways, not a joke.

Western District??? i call BS

[k13]

This sucks for COMC...going to cost $$$$$

What's a bigger joke though?
$10 BV jersey card that sells for a $1 or
$50 RPA BV that list for $200 on ebay which I can go the LCS and buy for $40...

All the cards I want I would love to pay BV prices instead of EBAY/COMC prices.

Obviously #@#@#@#@ that no one wants will "sell" cheap.

[Art Vandelay]

Looking at the timeline, on or about January 7, COMC announces it is developing its own catalog. On February 26, Beckett files its lawsuit. On or about March 7, COMC debuts the Challenge.

Was the Challenge in response to the lawsuit? Was the Challenge an after-thought as a way to "prove" and/or give the appearance the catalog was being created from scratch?

[mrwalken]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

Looking at the timeline, on or about January 7, COMC announces it is developing its own catalog. On February 26, Beckett files its lawsuit. On or about March 7, COMC debuts the Challenge.

Was the Challenge in response to the lawsuit? Was the Challenge an after-thought as a way to "prove" and/or give the appearance the catalog was being created from scratch?

In my view, the challenge was a pretty clever solution for COMC to create its own catalog, thereby obviating the lawsuit. I suppose Beckett will argue that the catalog is just a front while COMC actually just continues using Beckett's catalog. It seems significant here that Beckett fails to list certain cards which hopefully can now be listed on COMC (i.e., the two catalogs are not the same). Beckett's assertion that its catalog covers every card that can be listed on COMC is plainly false.