Kevin Durant believes he should be in NBA GOAT conversation

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by JRX

Greatest bus rider of all time.

With Lebron behind the bus steering wheel, why not?

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by cms11

Wilt was easily the GOAT of his era - no one comes close to him averaging 40 points and 25 rebounds a game over his first 9 seasons.

how did his numbers do in the playoffs where his opponent was often headlined by the reputed defensive GOAT?

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

With Lebron behind the bus steering wheel, why not?

You have issues

[codered]

Durant, like lebron does himself no favours when he seemingly is telling us how good he is, instead of letting everyone else decide. Granted i get he probably feels slighted because everyone constantly makes excuses against his greatness.

People don’t want to hear it but Durant is closer to bird as far as individual achievements are concerned than someone like dirk.

Durant: Championships x 2, finals MVP’s x 2, league MVP x 1, all-star games x 13, all nba x 10 (6 - 1st, 4 - 2nd), scoring titles x 4, 50-40-90 club x 2 and ROY

Bird : Championships x 3, finals MVP’s x 2, league MVP’s x 3, all-star games x 12, all nba x 10 (9 - 1st, 1 - 2nd), 50-40-90 club x 2, all nba defensive team x 3 (2nd teams) and ROY

Durant career numbers: pts 27.4 rebs 7.0 assists 4.4
Bird career numbers: pts 24.3 rebs 10.0 assists 6.3

They almost have identical shooting percentages as well.

I’m taking Bird for what it’s worth but I think the point is Durant feels like he should be in the discussion with the greats. If you look objectively you could definitely make an argument to put him at the tail end of the top 10. He’s not for me but I can see a convincing argument based on numbers alone. That’s kind of the point I believe. Too many people making ridiculous claims that he’s not even a top 25 all time.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by codered

Durant, like lebron does himself no favours when he seemingly is telling us how good he is, instead of letting everyone else decide. Granted i get he probably feels slighted because everyone constantly makes excuses against his greatness.

People don’t want to hear it but Durant is closer to bird as far as individual achievements are concerned than someone like dirk.

Durant: Championships x 2, finals MVP’s x 2, league MVP x 1, all-star games x 13, all nba x 10 (6 - 1st, 4 - 2nd), scoring titles x 4, 50-40-90 club x 2 and ROY

Bird : Championships x 3, finals MVP’s x 2, league MVP’s x 3, all-star games x 12, all nba x 10 (9 - 1st, 1 - 2nd), 50-40-90 club x 2, all nba defensive team x 3 (2nd teams) and ROY

Durant career numbers: pts 27.4 rebs 7.0 assists 4.4
Bird career numbers: pts 24.3 rebs 10.0 assists 6.3

They almost have identical shooting percentages as well.

I’m taking Bird for what it’s worth but I think the point is Durant feels like he should be in the discussion with the greats. If you look objectively you could definitely make an argument to put him at the tail end of the top 10. He’s not for me but I can see a convincing argument based on numbers alone. That’s kind of the point I believe. Too many people making ridiculous claims that he’s not even a top 25 all time.

But LeBron is that good

Why even mention him?

You’re part of the problem

[codered]

Originally Posted by asujbl

But LeBron is that good

Why even mention him?

Lebron is great. I don’t like him but he’s incredible. Second greatest of all time in my opinion. I mention lebron because I wonder why both of them have to continually reaffirm their greatness to us the fans, instead of waiting for their careers to be over and let others decide. I wonder if it’s a product of players playing today and wanting so badly to be recognized or just a strange thing they have in common

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by asujbl

But LeBron is that good

Why even mention him?

You’re part of the problem

If anyone is that good, they wouldn't need to constantly tell people they're that good...


KD is 100% top 25. I'd say firmly top 15-17.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by codered

Lebron is great. I don’t like him but he’s incredible. Second greatest of all time in my opinion. I mention lebron because I wonder why both of them have to continually reaffirm their greatness to us the fans, instead of waiting for their careers to be over and let others decide. I wonder if it’s a product of players playing today and wanting so badly to be recognized or just a strange thing they have in common

But LeBron doing it is justified

Bringing him up is crazy town

That’s what you did for some random reason

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

If anyone is that good, they wouldn't need to constantly tell people they're that good...


KD is 100% top 25. I'd say firmly top 15-17.

If you’re talking about Durant? I’m fine with this

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

With Lebron behind the bus steering wheel, why not?

Originally Posted by asujbl

You have issues

*taps sign*

Originally Posted by GOATcards

isn't there a dedicated Westbrook thread? you're the Westbrook buy, Nomad is the Neeesmith guy, ninja is the BBW fetish guy, rats is the Wilt guy, Hellcat is the 101 guy, permabanned guy is Luka guy, kardsin47 is the Wemby guy, daeve is the Yoker guy, Khal is the negativity guy, Tallboy is the knowledge/RealGM guy, asymmetrical bet is the shill-bidding victim guy, pcptrade is the jealousy-causing guy, Chris P is the pickups guy, hermano is the Bron-ball-busting guy, go Miami is the philly/Troel guy, jcardstore is the pull-the-chair guy, Arianny_Fan is the best-avatar guy, AbraCalabro is the Goldin-fanboy guy, which makes me

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like every other of the named persons with monomania, hermano should start and post only in a Bron-Ball-Busting thread. He should title it that.

[GOATcards]

These two 'metrics' (especially in combination) align strongly with perceptions of greatness, and Slim ranks pretty highly on both. (Harden pooping the bed hard in multiple playoff elimination games makes him something of an outlier. Unless you wanna say that it's statistical noise lol)

https://www.basketball-reference.com...vp_shares.html

1. LeBron James 8.815
2. Michael Jordan* 8.115
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 6.105
4. Larry Bird* 5.612
5. Magic Johnson* 5.104
6. Bill Russell* 4.748
7. Shaquille O'Neal* 4.380
8. Karl Malone* 4.296
9. Tim Duncan* 4.278
10. Kobe Bryant* 4.202
11. Wilt Chamberlain* 4.152
12. James Harden 3.656
13. Julius Erving* 3.551
14. Giannis Antetokounmpo 3.511
15. Kevin Durant 3.210
16. David Robinson* 3.123
17. Moses Malone* 2.854
18. Mel Daniels* 2.795
19. Kevin Garnett* 2.753
20. Nikola Jokić 2.738


https://www.basketball-reference.com..._career_p.html

1. LeBron James 35.40
2. Michael Jordan* 24.73
3. Tim Duncan* 18.56
4. Magic Johnson* 18.34
5. Kobe Bryant* 16.15
6. Larry Bird* 15.35
7. Shaquille O'Neal* 15.32
8. Kevin Durant 14.84
9. Scottie Pippen* 14.18
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 12.99
11. John Stockton* 12.93
12. Hakeem Olajuwon* 12.87
13. Kawhi Leonard 12.51
14. Stephen Curry 12.49
15. Dwyane Wade* 12.30
16. Karl Malone* 12.07
17. James Harden 11.87
18. Chris Paul 11.86
19. Dirk Nowitzki* 11.79
20. Clyde Drexler* 10.65

edit: KD would drop to #11 after you put in Wilt and Mr. Russell and adjust for playoff schedule length, and credit Roger Murdock for pre-1973 VORP which would put him around the 18 mark (turns out that VORP is about 1/2 WS...and now I gotta calculate Wilt and Russell VORP as 1/2 their WS)

[GOATcards]

I wanna see kd_the_sniper's case for kd as goat.

user avatar:

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

If anyone is that good, they wouldn't need to constantly tell people they're that good...

TIL that Muhammad Ali can't be the greatest

[jcmel323]

13-17 all time right now with lots of potential to be in the top 3-10 when retired

[dayrider1973]

If you have to tell us you should be in that conversation that just confirms to me that you aren’t in that conversation.

[GOATcards]

taps sign:

Originally Posted by GOATcards

TIL that Muhammad Ali can't be the greatest

Originally Posted by dayrider1973

If you have to tell us you should be in that conversation that just confirms to me that you aren’t in that conversation.

LeBron said after the '16 title win that it made him the greatest. Must not be in the conversation then

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by codered

Durant, like lebron does himself no favours when he seemingly is telling us how good he is, instead of letting everyone else decide. Granted i get he probably feels slighted because everyone constantly makes excuses against his greatness.

People don’t want to hear it but Durant is closer to bird as far as individual achievements are concerned than someone like dirk.

Durant: Championships x 2, finals MVP’s x 2, league MVP x 1, all-star games x 13, all nba x 10 (6 - 1st, 4 - 2nd), scoring titles x 4, 50-40-90 club x 2 and ROY

Bird : Championships x 3, finals MVP’s x 2, league MVP’s x 3, all-star games x 12, all nba x 10 (9 - 1st, 1 - 2nd), 50-40-90 club x 2, all nba defensive team x 3 (2nd teams) and ROY

Durant career numbers: pts 27.4 rebs 7.0 assists 4.4
Bird career numbers: pts 24.3 rebs 10.0 assists 6.3

They almost have identical shooting percentages as well.

I’m taking Bird for what it’s worth but I think the point is Durant feels like he should be in the discussion with the greats. If you look objectively you could definitely make an argument to put him at the tail end of the top 10. He’s not for me but I can see a convincing argument based on numbers alone. That’s kind of the point I believe. Too many people making ridiculous claims that he’s not even a top 25 all time.

You made me spit out my milk saying he's closer to Bird than Dirk. He's below both and it's borderline disrespectful to put him over Dirk.

Swap KD with Dirk in his prime years like KD was and Dirk wins another 2 titles and probably those finals MVPs also.

Dirk went through one of the toughest gauntlets to win a title.

Durant went through the easiest to win his.

KD is really yet to show that he can carry a franchise like a Dirk.

Wash your mouth out.

The insecurity from KD himself and his 1 fan is wild.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by codered

Lebron is great. I don’t like him but he’s incredible. Second greatest of all time in my opinion. I mention lebron because I wonder why both of them have to continually reaffirm their greatness to us the fans, instead of waiting for their careers to be over and let others decide. I wonder if it’s a product of players playing today and wanting so badly to be recognized or just a strange thing they have in common

It’s a millennial thang - you are spot on.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by GOATcards

*taps sign*



like every other of the named persons with monomania, hermano should start and post only in a Bron-Ball-Busting thread. He should title it that.

LOL, it’s funny, but Lebron is the Kevin Bacon of basketball cards - he can be blamed within six degrees of separation for everything we complain about on these message boards.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

You made me spit out my milk saying he's closer to Bird than Dirk. He's below both and it's borderline disrespectful to put him over Dirk.

Swap KD with Dirk in his prime years like KD was and Dirk wins another 2 titles and probably those finals MVPs also.

Dirk went through one of the toughest gauntlets to win a title.

Durant went through the easiest to win his.

KD is really yet to show that he can carry a franchise like a Dirk.

Wash your mouth out.

The insecurity from KD himself and his 1 fan is wild.

I love Dirk and he's super underrated but it's not disrespectful to put KD above him. Most people would.

KD has 6 1st Team All-NBA selections. Dirk had 4. Even if KD retired after this season, he'll have the same amount of ASG as Dirk (with Dirk given one) and 1 fewer All-NBA selection.

KD also finished second in MVP voting in multiple years, Dirk didn't. As bad as KD's team have been in the postseason, Dirk was the only one with a number 1 seed losing in the first round.

[bmf]

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

If anyone is that good, they wouldn't need to constantly tell people they're that good.

That makes no sense. You can be incredibly good and also insecure.

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

LOL, it’s funny, but Lebron is the Kevin Bacon of basketball cards - he can be blamed within six degrees of separation for everything we complain about on these message boards.

^ start your ball-buster thread with that statement

[GOATcards]

re Dirk,
was the '11 Finals a Bron choke job or a Dirk carry job? Let's get our narratives straight

(before y'all say "both," what amount of weighting for each, then?)

edit: KD is 4 spots behind Dirk in the latest RealGM 100

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

I love Dirk and he's super underrated but it's not disrespectful to put KD above him. Most people would.

KD has 6 1st Team All-NBA selections. Dirk had 4. Even if KD retired after this season, he'll have the same amount of ASG as Dirk (with Dirk given one) and 1 fewer All-NBA selection.

KD also finished second in MVP voting in multiple years, Dirk didn't. As bad as KD's team have been in the postseason, Dirk was the only one with a number 1 seed losing in the first round.

Dirk went up against KG and TD for the 4 spot. Pretty tough company.

ASG means absolutely nothing so I'll move along from that one.

Oomph. Bringing up MVPs. Go back and take a look. Dirk probably should have won in 04/05 and 05/06.

Losing in the 1st round sucks as the 1 seed. But that's how the West was. Tim Duncan lost vs Dirk as the 2 seed. I think the Spurs lost again as the 1 seed or the 2nd seed vs Memphis.

KD was on a team that made the Finals and he got inured in the 2nd round! And swept the West conference Finals (without him!)

Sorry. KD is uber talented and a match up nightmare. But you need smarts and to be a gamer and Dirk owns him.

Maybe this is KD'S year? No excuses surely. He's got another stacked team. Surely they should win it?

[GOATcards]

Originally Posted by yiguiri2002

I love Dirk and he's super underrated but it's not disrespectful to put KD above him. Most people would.

KD has 6 1st Team All-NBA selections. Dirk had 4. Even if KD retired after this season, he'll have the same amount of ASG as Dirk (with Dirk given one) and 1 fewer All-NBA selection.

KD also finished second in MVP voting in multiple years, Dirk didn't. As bad as KD's team have been in the postseason, Dirk was the only one with a number 1 seed losing in the first round.

re All-NBA selections, Dirk was contemporaries with Tim and KG

who are KD's leading contemporaries at the F position (well, Bron for one)

Dirk does rank several spots higher in career playoff VORP than MVP shares (and his MVP-share competition were mainly Tim, Kobe, & Nash; Durant has had some pretty loaded competition there, though his MVP-shares prime was mainly against Bron and he hasn't been much in there since Curry/Harden primes IIRC)