Will BBCE authenticated items take a dip?

[Sonnys88]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

Steve is kind of like the CIA -- you never hear about his successes (when he identifies a doctored case and refuses to wrap it), just about when he (allegedly, possibly) made a mistake.

What's the proof that the case is bad? Is it just a bunch of armchair hobby masters arbitrarily throwing out theories because they're good message board fodder? Steve has authenticated '86 Fleer basketball cases and other wildly expensive pieces of hobby material and there's no one else anyone can point to and say "THAT person has more experience and knowledge at authenticating unopened than Steve Hart."

Sure, he's had a few boo-boos along the way but they've always led to a deeper understanding of the unopened landscape and always led to "Well, we won't make that mistake again."

If you want irrefutable absolutes, get into conspiracy theories. It's basically just a bunch of people who say "I'm not sure I understand your explanation so I'm going to create a completely fictitious story to explain it because I cannot live with uncertainty.

Arthur

I agree. Well said.

There is little to no documented information on what original cases look like besides the one other known case. Everyone is just speculating. And speculating without even examining the case in person. Who says there weren't variations in the labeling and tape on original cases? I have not seen one person prove otherwise.

Steve / BBCE would not just throw around his opinion without some critical thinking / examination. He is the one who examined it in person - not from behind a computer. Sure, mistakes can and will be made in all forms of "authentication", but to disregard a long-history of getting things right and showing integrity is absurd.

[rms13]

Originally Posted by awz50

Its all a scam

Pretty much. I’ve come to realize that all grading is a scam.

[kyle1707]

In the past before the boom

I would buy bbce cello boxes and I would open the box and display them in office

2 of the 10 I bought 1981-1990

Had stickers on them with hand written prices .. like being sold at a show

The other box had 3 Bob Horner on the top of cellos

So a Frankenstein box and a box that had stickers placed on the packs

Both were probably Frankenstein

Meaning put together from multiple boxes

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by awz50

Its all a scam

It’s a valuable service that is optional for those to partake in or not …….

[mc1]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

It’s a valuable service that is optional for those to partake in or not …….

Its just an opinion. Some opinions carry more weight than others, obviously.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by mc1

Its just an opinion. Some opinions carry more weight than others, obviously.

Yes….. and I pay and will continue to pay for that service/ opinion.

Without it my life as a wax collector would be as chaotic as single card collectors without TPG - remember those days? I do - what a mess!!

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Yes….. and I pay and will continue to pay for that service/ opinion.

Without it my life as a wax collector would be as chaotic as single card card collectors without TPG - remember those days? I do - what a mess!!

So do many of us, and those days still were a lot more fun and a lot less expensive than what we have today. Today’s “service” is rarely worth the pumped-up cost in terms of dollars and in terms of time needed to sell other cards to pay for it.

In the end, grading is a “hobby” separate from the card hobby..

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

So do many of us, and those days still were a lot more fun and a lot less expensive than what we have today. Today’s “service” is rarely worth the pumped-up cost in terms of dollars and in terms of time needed to sell other cards to pay for it.

In the end, grading is a “hobby” separate from the card hobby..

Growing Pains - TPG is not perfect, as we’ve discussed here 25 million times, but for me personally - having bought / sold / traded in both markets ( pre and post PSA ) - I would never want to go back to the way it was.

[LVDan]

It’s clear to me from the numerous testimonials of card people that the gentleman’s integrity and experience are pretty much above reproach.
That said just like grading companies in general, it’s just like, your opinion, man.
For many in the business or hobby this is their warm fuzzy assurance that what they bought is unmolested. If I collected pre- shrink wrapped boxes I’d probably go that route too.
By all accounts this seems mostly like a one man operation where his word is trusted and for good reason.
The card grading companies all have a rap sheet pages thick with handshake deals, shady practices and widespread opportunities for corruption.
This company, to my knowledge hasn’t had any hard proof of corruption ever leveled at them.
Mistakes happen.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

Growing Pains - TPG is not perfect, as we’ve discussed here 25 million times, but for me personally - having bought / sold / traded in both markets ( pre and post PSA ) - I would never want to go back to the way it was.

It’s not growing pains, but rather a means to an end. Until grading only offers a modest premium over raw, grading is just an excuse to overcharge customers.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

It’s not growing pains, but rather a means to an end. Until grading only offers a modest premium over raw, grading is just an excuse to overcharge customers.

The Market decides the spread between raw and graded, not what we discuss here ( although it would be kinda’ cool if we that kinda’ power )

[OldReignman]

To answer the OP’s question: Yes. Anybody who says differently probably has BBCE wax sitting in their closet.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by OldReignman

To answer the OP’s question: Yes. Anybody who says differently probably has BBCE wax sitting in their closet.

I don’t think so - this case was Pokémon / don’t see too many trickle down issues for the faith in and reuputation of BBCE in the Sportscards World

[AnthonyT]

Originally Posted by rms13

Pretty much. I’ve come to realize that all grading is a scam.

Its the credit card of the dollar bill.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by cardsin47

The Market decides the spread between raw and graded, not what we discuss here ( although it would be kinda’ cool if we that kinda’ power )

Yes, as I’ve said many times this (completely unregulated) market has almost nothing to do with cards, or about accuracy. It’s almost entirely about slabs and about making money. It’s almost an NFT.

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Yes, as I’ve said many times this (completely unregulated) market has almost nothing to do with cards, or about accuracy. It’s almost entirely about slabs and about making money.
It’s almost an NFT.

Yes….. except at least with cards, really old people can hold and understand them!

[SupermanBrandon]

Think the FBI gets involved and raids BBCE after they take down PWCC?

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by jw8

https://youtu.be/qWoVv8Ko1EA

Skip to 21:37 - Jacob talks about the bbce authentication process and specifically mentions x-ray machine

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Thanks for that. I watched this and must have missed that part.

If this is true (just going off this youtubers word), I wonder what exactly comes up on x-ray with a case like this. Are boxes discernible? The cover of the boxes? The interior packs and cards? I imagine something of this composition wouldnt show specifics on an x-ray, but honestly I have no clue.

I guess you'd at least know it's not just stacks of paper or 1991 topps boxes inside if the x-ray showed anything. However one could argue if boxes showed up and could be discerned as Pokemon 1st Base set boxes, even this wouldnt be definite, with possible repack boxes etc.

I said it in the other thread, but Im wary of the idea of authenticating vintage sealed cases like this, especially multi-million dollar valued ones, without opening up the case to verify what's inside- if that's really how it's done. I feel like with something of this caliber, you almost have to peak inside and figure out what's within, too much at risk.

[mrb842]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

Thanks for that. I watched this and must have missed that part.

If this is true (just going off this youtubers word), I wonder what exactly comes up on x-ray with a case like this. Are boxes discernible? The cover of the boxes? The interior packs and cards? I imagine something of this composition wouldnt show specifics on an x-ray, but honestly I have no clue.

I guess you'd at least know it's not just stacks of paper or 1991 topps boxes inside if the x-ray showed anything. However one could argue if boxes showed up and could be discerned as Pokemon 1st Base set boxes, even this wouldnt be definite, with possible repack boxes etc.

I said it in the other thread, but Im wary of the idea of authenticating vintage sealed cases like this, especially multi-million dollar valued ones, without opening up the case to verify what's inside- if that's really how it's done. I feel like with something of this caliber, you almost have to peak inside and figure out what's within, too much at risk.

private jets, fancy cameras for a couple million dollar box of cards. This smelled from the beginning and I'm sure on smaller message boards there are at least a dozen if not more stories like of fake memorabilia, altered cards, people pumping other nonsense. I just don't think us attorneys and the feds are going to care.

[jduds]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

I agree. Well said.

There is little to no documented information on what original cases look like besides the one other known case. Everyone is just speculating. And speculating without even examining the case in person. Who says there weren't variations in the labeling and tape on original cases? I have not seen one person prove otherwise.

Steve / BBCE would not just throw around his opinion without some critical thinking / examination. He is the one who examined it in person - not from behind a computer. Sure, mistakes can and will be made in all forms of "authentication", but to disregard a long-history of getting things right and showing integrity is absurd.

It's one mistake, but it's also probably on one of the biggest things he's done. Some of the things missed seems sadly sloppy. The barcode in particular is troubling to me. Seems that would be checked to make sure it matches. It says a lot that people still trust him based on year's of good work though. You don't get that reputation and trust overnight.

[jduds]

Originally Posted by mrb842

private jets, fancy cameras for a couple million dollar box of cards. This smelled from the beginning and I'm sure on smaller message boards there are at least a dozen if not more stories like of fake memorabilia, altered cards, people pumping other nonsense. I just don't think us attorneys and the feds are going to care.

They've spent years going after fake memorabilia. They like stuff like this. Gets headlines and is in the public interest.

[pip]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

I agree. Well said.

There is little to no documented information on what original cases look like besides the one other known case. Everyone is just speculating. And speculating without even examining the case in person. Who says there weren't variations in the labeling and tape on original cases? I have not seen one person prove otherwise.

Steve / BBCE would not just throw around his opinion without some critical thinking / examination. He is the one who examined it in person - not from behind a computer. Sure, mistakes can and will be made in all forms of "authentication", but to disregard a long-history of getting things right and showing integrity is absurd.

Huh? Have you seen any of the evidence? The barcode on the ink-printed label doesn't even match the number printed above it. Not a single Pokémon case of ANY type has that problem. For that matter, neither does a case of anything else.

[jduds]

Originally Posted by pip

Huh? Have you seen any of the evidence? The barcode on the ink-printed label doesn't even match the number printed above it. Not a single Pokémon case of ANY type has that problem. For that matter, neither does a case of anything else.

The barcode is the one that jumped out to me as the one I couldn't believe wasn't checked. Actually, given the problems found quickly by non-experts, I'm not really sure what they did other than weigh it and check the spelling on the box.

[pip]

Originally Posted by jduds

The barcode is the one that jumped out to me as the one I couldn't believe wasn't checked. Actually, given the problems found quickly by non-experts, I'm not really sure what they did other than weigh it and check the spelling on the box.

I believe they x-rayed it too which is very fortunate because now we know there are actual cards inside.

[Archangel1775]

To be fair, it wasn't originally a $3.5 Million case. This should make many people concerned that should it be deemed fake, there are people out there going all out to take your money. But to answer the OP's question, prices could fall but someone needs to authenticate sports boxes and Steve is the best in the business.