Completely switching to vintage - Page 2

gomiamigo · 05-17-2021, 01:57 PM

I forgot I did buy a Hal Greer rc raw but that's the only one.

pip · 05-19-2021, 05:11 PM

Vintage is an interesting proposition because players are mostly retired and prices are usually (but not always!) less volatile. Cards generally increase in value too, as players die and/or make the Hall of Fame. There are plenty of areas of future appreciation too, especially in pre-war hockey and early Bowman football. The other cool thing is that variations are constantly being discovered, which can sometimes cause a $50 card to be worth $5000. Then there's all of the original artwork that can be collected so in that respect, it's a lot like comic books.

Edited to add: there's one thing that really f*cks up vintage though - all of the card molesters. They ruin values and artificially inflate supplies of ordinarily rare, high-grade cards. If I pay $1000 for some key 1950s card, there's nothing more demoralizing than seeing Moser/PWCC/Probstein/HA sell ten chopped examples of the same card in the next year for progressively less each time.

discodanman45 · 05-19-2021, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip

Vintage is an interesting proposition because players are mostly retired and prices are usually (but not always!) less volatile. Cards generally increase in value too, as players die and/or make the Hall of Fame. There are plenty of areas of future appreciation too, especially in pre-war hockey and early Bowman football. The other cool thing is that variations are constantly being discovered, which can sometimes cause a $50 card to be worth $5000. Then there's all of the original artwork that can be collected so in that respect, it's a lot like comic books.

Edited to add: there's one thing that really f*cks up vintage though - all of the card molesters. They ruin values and artificially inflate supplies of ordinarily rare, high-grade cards. If I pay $1000 for some key 1950s card, there's nothing more demoralizing than seeing Moser/PWCC/Probstein/HA sell ten chopped examples of the same card in the next year for progressively less each time.

Some cards have been hyped too much, but even if the card hobby bubble bursts (which I don't think will happen for years) the worse that happens is a slight correction. Even if I stop collecting again, I have some of my cards displayed and are treating them like art. They are never leaving my possession. I put about $5000 into this hobby for the past year and I have a pretty nice collection that my 13 year old self would have been absolutely jealous of and admired.

Part of me wants a huge market correction to happen to get rid of the flippers and card trimmers. Let kids open packs, be able to grade cards for the PSA registry, and stop all this investing talk. I don't like the hype and games that are happening. It is also stupid that we now have investment companies selling partial shares of a card. This is insanity.

mfw13 · 05-19-2021, 08:26 PM

My advice for someone new to vintage is to develop a collecting project or two to help you focus your spending.

That could be a set to build, a player to build a run of, or anything else that tickles your fancy. In addition to Topps baseball products, vintage has a lot of food issues (Post Cereal, Kelloggs, Hostess) which are fun to collect and less expensive.

So pick something you like and have at it.....

crazy4kinsler · 05-19-2021, 08:37 PM

Great move going to vintage. I've decided to sell off all my modern and concentrate solely on vintage. Couple of reasons factored into that (can't find retail, and I don't really bust much anyway other than a pack/blaster here or there and building a flagship Topps set each year and also just risk of injuries, cards going up/down, whatever). You never had to worry about a Mantle, Maris, Snider, etc going down in value.

Congrats on starting a vintage collection. I've just started watching the Ken Burns baseball series, so that's peaked my interest even more.

I've always been a set builder, and I've decided to build some vintage sets. I built a 1958 Topps set a couple of years ago but had to sell it becaue of the pandemic. So I've restarted that set as well as 57T, 61T, 62T. Just enjoy set building and putting all cards into notebooks.

tnosmoothly · 05-20-2021, 11:15 AM

I love the vintage and often feel better about purchasing a graded vintage star vs. a modern star. For all the reasons people have already shared, it just seems less risky. I jumped back into cards when covid started and went straight to vintage. I Always wanted some t206 cards so my first project began with trying to get all the Detroit Tigers and Toledo cards from the monster set. That has been a lot of fun and tought me a lot. I did learn that you have to be careful buying raw vintage online. I have a lot of good fortune and sent some in for good grades but I just found out a beautiful raw '48 leaf I sent to SGC was trimmed. That's my mistake for not being more careful and luckily the card only cost me $30 but lesson learned.
I did eventually get into the modern cards because of my love of sports in general, but I have since backed off a bit. I think I've learned that the vintage collecting gives me more joy (often less stress), but I still enjoy following my tigers and picking up some of their top prospects. I never bought much retail at all so that shortage hasn't bothered me, but I do think it's horrible for the hobby. Retail needs to figure it out so kids can collect and appreciate the hobby.

discodanman45 · 05-20-2021, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnosmoothly

I love the vintage and often feel better about purchasing a graded vintage star vs. a modern star. For all the reasons people have already shared, it just seems less risky. I jumped back into cards when covid started and went straight to vintage. I Always wanted some t206 cards so my first project began with trying to get all the Detroit Tigers and Toledo cards from the monster set. That has been a lot of fun and tought me a lot. I did learn that you have to be careful buying raw vintage online. I have a lot of good fortune and sent some in for good grades but I just found out a beautiful raw '48 leaf I sent to SGC was trimmed. That's my mistake for not being more careful and luckily the card only cost me $30 but lesson learned.
I did eventually get into the modern cards because of my love of sports in general, but I have since backed off a bit. I think I've learned that the vintage collecting gives me more joy (often less stress), but I still enjoy following my tigers and picking up some of their top prospects. I never bought much retail at all so that shortage hasn't bothered me, but I do think it's horrible for the hobby. Retail needs to figure it out so kids can collect and appreciate the hobby.

I agree with everything you said! Looking back at past sales, lower grade vintage has barely went up besides the cards that were pumped and superstar rookie cards. It seems like the flippers that got involved in vintage drove up the rare PSA 8, 9 ,10's to incredibly high levels. The lower grade stuff hasn't seen the same appreciation as other cards during the pandemic. I basically stay away from stuff that looks too good to be true because most likely it will be trimmed or fake.

Retail is dead after the Target incident with a gun. The hobby is in a weird place right now. My nephew wants to collect and he started to collect "vintage" and just buying singles of his favorite players because of not finding retail or the insane prices. He is 12 years old and he can't open packs. This is just wrong. Flippers and wax investors are killing this hobby for the kids. I can understand keeping wax of high end product. However I don't agree of hoarding boxes of basic Topps.

mfw13 · 05-20-2021, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnosmoothly

I love the vintage and often feel better about purchasing a graded vintage star vs. a modern star. For all the reasons people have already shared, it just seems less risky. I jumped back into cards when covid started and went straight to vintage. I Always wanted some t206 cards so my first project began with trying to get all the Detroit Tigers and Toledo cards from the monster set. That has been a lot of fun and tought me a lot. I did learn that you have to be careful buying raw vintage online. I have a lot of good fortune and sent some in for good grades but I just found out a beautiful raw '48 leaf I sent to SGC was trimmed. That's my mistake for not being more careful and luckily the card only cost me $30 but lesson learned.
I did eventually get into the modern cards because of my love of sports in general, but I have since backed off a bit. I think I've learned that the vintage collecting gives me more joy (often less stress), but I still enjoy following my tigers and picking up some of their top prospects. I never bought much retail at all so that shortage hasn't bothered me, but I do think it's horrible for the hobby. Retail needs to figure it out so kids can collect and appreciate the hobby.

With vintage, do not assume that graded = untrimmed. As you may/may not be aware of, PSA has been authenticating/grading a lot of trimmed cards. Raw cards are often much better deals pricewise (especially given PSA's increased grading fees), and you can return (on EBay at least) any card you are unsatisfied with or feel might be trimmed.

discodanman45 · 05-20-2021, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfw13

With vintage, do not assume that graded = untrimmed. As you may/may not be aware of, PSA has been authenticating/grading a lot of trimmed cards. Raw cards are often much better deals pricewise (especially given PSA's increased grading fees), and you can return (on EBay at least) any card you are unsatisfied with or feel might be trimmed.

PSA has trained me to only look at corners when I wanted a raw card because that is what they look for. Once I started to dive into vintage and using SGC, my whole perspective on what I look for in a card has changed. Cards with nice centering and beautiful colors are way more important than perfect corners. PSA's whole scale is fully dependent on perfect corners that they pushed trimming where it is today IMO. A card is not worthless without perfect corners, but in PSA's grading scale it basically is.

Papa Stephano · 05-20-2021, 02:11 PM

After a 26 year break, I returned to the hobby at the begging of last year. I always appreciated vintage but it was too difficult to get 26+ years ago. I didn't even think about vintage when I returned. After a few months I was completely turned off with modern and stopped.

My son is starting baseball again soon and I thought I'd get a Dustin May RPA (his favourite player) for his Birthday and came across the modern Allen & Ginter cards on eBay. I love the vintage looks to them. I was looking at some of the 1/1 buybacks to purchase since I thought to myself "those 1800 cards are too expensive to buy". To my pleasant surprise, some of them are very affordable (and some aren't!). And this is when I completely forgot about modern.

I'm still looking for my first Vintage purchase with a limit of $200, and have my eye on a graded 1910 T210 Old Mill. I'm just waiting for a reply from the seller.

One of the things I want to do is buy cards without using eBay if possible. I'd like to meet new people in the hobby and build a network of people with similar interests.

pip · 05-20-2021, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discodanman45

PSA has trained me to only look at corners when I wanted a raw card because that is what they look for. Once I started to dive into vintage and using SGC, my whole perspective on what I look for in a card has changed. Cards with nice centering and beautiful colors are way more important than perfect corners. PSA's whole scale is fully dependent on perfect corners that they pushed trimming where it is today IMO. A card is not worthless without perfect corners, but in PSA's grading scale it basically is.

I like this perspective and I agree with it. Corners are weighted too heavily in the overall grade for vintage. Color & image quality and the original whiteness/brightness of the card should be given a greater importance. This would lessen the incentive to trim.

bmattioli86 · 05-21-2021, 01:57 PM

its funny that i stumbled across this thread, because over the last few weeks i have been debating on doing exactly what you had said, getting into vintage and forgetting about modern. Don't get me wrong, modern and ultra modern has a good story line right now.. and its interesting enough to follow along from a distance and not have to dump money on players that may never pan out, or stars who sign big contracts and end up getting lazy. been collecting only vintage baseball and some jordans. fun to say the very least and love the art and feel of the 60's-70's.

i have also only been collecting raw copies, but do plan to send them into a grading service that i think they would all look really nice in. once all the dust settles of course and most of the grading companies figure out their pricing and turn around times.

tnosmoothly · 05-24-2021, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfw13

With vintage, do not assume that graded = untrimmed. As you may/may not be aware of, PSA has been authenticating/grading a lot of trimmed cards. Raw cards are often much better deals pricewise (especially given PSA's increased grading fees), and you can return (on EBay at least) any card you are unsatisfied with or feel might be trimmed.

That's a fair point, thanks. I've read plenty into the trimming scandal and which player were involved. I wish they had a little more certainty with PSA.
They have so much control over the market that I am all for other graders. I've had really good experiences grading with SGC this past few months and I like their slabs, especially with vintage.

pip · 05-24-2021, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfw13

With vintage, do not assume that graded = untrimmed. As you may/may not be aware of, PSA has been authenticating/grading a lot of trimmed cards. Raw cards are often much better deals pricewise (especially given PSA's increased grading fees), and you can return (on EBay at least) any card you are unsatisfied with or feel might be trimmed.

I'd say this is an accurate perspective. There are far too many trimmed/altered cards in PSA holders to make the claim that you're safer buying graded than raw. If you're buying from a reliable dealer, raw is often a much better value.

MFaulkCollector · 05-24-2021, 08:06 PM

Vintage-Modern............. that is the way to go. Get the oldest examples of modern legacy sets, themes, designs.

Prizms are cool, they are modern........... they are also overproduced in 2020 yet still sell high....... go get some 2013 colors which are all under 500 copies, some likely under 150...... get some 2012 greens and red die cuts..... these are all undervalued for HOF's... topps chrome should have taught people this, yet here we are again

Select is being produced in mass quantities...... retail fever.... prices are crashing....... but the brand itself is still very popular.... people don't like the 3 levels; well there is great news.... 13 and 14 select is just one card per player and limited colors, all serial numbered and rare............ same theme as chrome just not quite as popular.. so let's just compare it to finest colors...... we saw the older rare refractors skyrocket.... you'd think we would learn by now

We have all seen the reviews and hysteria with bball galactics in revolution........football has them in unparalleled and after an initial popular out period, nobody cared. Panini didn't even make the product this year which will either make them freakishly scarce if they cancel it altogether or create separation from the first two years to the current year if it turns into a legacy set

I could go on all day.... there are so many ways to learn from what has happened over the years and not have to pay a ton for great long term items. For those who just love vintage, that's great. Everyone should collect what they love.... but for those who have turned to vintage just because of modern pricing.... pssssshhhhh; don't be defeated by 2020 prices, just be creative and look at historical trends.

discodanman45 · 05-24-2021, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

I could go on all day.... there are so many ways to learn from what has happened over the years and not have to pay a ton for great long term items. For those who just love vintage, that's great. Everyone should collect what they love.... but for those who have turned to vintage just because of modern pricing.... pssssshhhhh; don't be defeated by 2020 prices, just be creative and look at historical trends.

It just isn't the prices. Everything recently has turned me off on modern.

Flippers in Target/Walmart getting product by any means necessary. Bribing people, pushing people, and harassing employees/suppliers.
Panini with their dutch auctions
Flippers returning cards from eBay because it isn't a PSA 10 in their eyes.
Scammers ripping off people on eBay
I hate prospecting. I did that in the junk wax era and I lost big time. I don't want to flip cards every week to make money. I just want a stable card that stays in my collection.
Vintage means no worries about PSA 10's. I get to collect cards that have eye-appeal for me and some wrinkles and rounded corners have character.

I am not getting out of modern and junk wax cards solely because of prices, but because it is a better community for me. If I wanted to deal with salesmen I would hang out at a car dealership. Flipping and investing makes modern unbearable for me right now.

MFaulkCollector · 05-24-2021, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discodanman45

It just isn't the prices. Everything recently has turned me off on modern.

Flippers in Target/Walmart getting product by any means necessary. Bribing people, pushing people, and harassing employees/suppliers.
Panini with their dutch auctions
Flippers returning cards from eBay because it isn't a PSA 10 in their eyes.
Scammers ripping off people on eBay
I hate prospecting. I did that in the junk wax era and I lost big time. I don't want to flip cards every week to make money. I just want a stable card that stays in my collection.
Vintage means no worries about PSA 10's. I get to collect cards that have eye-appeal for me and some wrinkles and rounded corners have character.

I am not getting out of modern and junk wax cards solely because of prices, but because it is a better community for me. If I wanted to deal with salesmen I would hang out at a car dealership. Flipping and investing makes modern unbearable for me right now.

I hear you.... I do......... but you don't have to be in the POS crowd who causes fights at walmart/target and should be incarcerated just due to pure stupidity

The 90's insert crowd is a wonderful group on this forum and on ebay from all my dealings. The chrome refractor group really likes the 02-13 pocket and that group of buyer is great as well. The stuff I mentioned like early prizm and early select is a different group to some degree but that buyer is starting to overlap with chrome refractor buyers. I've had nothing but great dealings in all of these areas. People who know the stuff they buy understand the condition nuances that come with items they buy. Chrome refractor buyers understand that dimples happen, they know a 12 year old refractor will have a small indent on the back, they know some of the edges may look bubbled..... ie whatever else, they are educated. Early prizm buyers know about the rough edge cuts and likely surface scratches due to how delicate they are. 90s guy appreciate the card for the design and rarity.. they know it's 20 plus years old

I am a passionate collector.... so I hate to hear someone say they are just moving away from modern altogether because of the 20-21 crowd. The current modern pocket of 12 to 19 will end up producing some of the best cards in the history of the sport. Collectibles from this time window can be so excessively rare I think we all lose sight of that. Luckily the flippers and fanbois are generally too stupid to appreciate what is actually worth having.... so there is still a great opportunity for us

And if I didn't change your mind, lol......... I can see the fun in vintage trying to find the right eye appeal of certain cards where grades mean less....... but modern bass and vintage are just so available the collector in me would be bored in 2 seconds.

Either way... it's nice to have a decent discussion about an enjoyable hobby....... the amount of incoherent nonsense I've seen lately is just brutal

discodanman45 · 05-25-2021, 12:02 AM

I grew up in the junk wax and I am kind of jaded by that experience. I am still collecting cards from that era, but I am careful how I am going forward with it. From a collecting standpoint I am still collecting Rik Smits and Reggie Miller, but the sheer quantity of sets and rookie cards is too much for me to handle. I have about 35 different rookie year cards of Shaq. It overwhelms me as a collector. Another reason I got frustrated is by all my good cards from the 80's and 90's being at PSA for 9 months and COMC holding my cards hostage as well.

I am not putting down anyone's collection, we are all here to collect what connects us to the sports we love. I only watch football now. Basketball with half the shots being three pointers and lacking physicality bored me. Not the same game I grew up watching. Baseball is not the same for me as well. I would live to collect modern football, but not at these prices.

I agree that 2012 to 2014 cards in football and basketball is where the safer stuff is. 2020 reminds me of the junk wax era where new sets keep on coming out. Fleer Ultra, Flair, Leaf Limited, etc...

Papa Stephano · 05-25-2021, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I only watch football now. Basketball with half the shots being three pointers and lacking physicality bored me. Not the same game I grew up watching. Baseball is not the same for me as well. I would live to collect modern football, but not at these prices.

Add hockey to that and that's how I feel as well. Less contact, and scoring is down compared to when I was growing up. The NHL playoffs are always good.

I have started watching MLB again. I miss small ball, but I am enjoying it again. I miss my Expos.

MFaulkCollector · 05-25-2021, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discodanman45

I grew up in the junk wax and I am kind of jaded by that experience. I am still collecting cards from that era, but I am careful how I am going forward with it. From a collecting standpoint I am still collecting Rik Smits and Reggie Miller, but the sheer quantity of sets and rookie cards is too much for me to handle. I have about 35 different rookie year cards of Shaq. It overwhelms me as a collector. Another reason I got frustrated is by all my good cards from the 80's and 90's being at PSA for 9 months and COMC holding my cards hostage as well.

I am not putting down anyone's collection, we are all here to collect what connects us to the sports we love. I only watch football now. Basketball with half the shots being three pointers and lacking physicality bored me. Not the same game I grew up watching. Baseball is not the same for me as well. I would live to collect modern football, but not at these prices.

I agree that 2012 to 2014 cards in football and basketball is where the safer stuff is. 2020 reminds me of the junk wax era where new sets keep on coming out. Fleer Ultra, Flair, Leaf Limited, etc...

But do these sets even matter? Why bother with them? The overall arc of this movement has shown us that only a few brands mattered over the entire 1990-2015 era

Similarly.... the 12- now will keep the staples of contenders, NT.... and add donruss to replace topps, optic to replace chrome, and prizm is the new addition that helped change the era.... somewhat like finest did in the 93-94 range ........... select is nice and could be akin to bowman chrome..... then you have some cool inserts sprinkled in like crusades, galactics, razzle/dazzle, stained glasss, color blasts, kaboom.....just like the 90s had

so few cards actually matter and for price purposes the ones that don't will be super cheap and prices are already plummeting on a lot of it.... and the ones that do will be fun to chase and worth having

discodanman45 · 05-25-2021, 09:58 AM

The difference is in the 1990's you could try to get the chase cards in packs. Your only chance now is to buy those cards on eBay. Part of collecting modern IMO is the ripping of wax. I am not a gambler and statistically your chance of getting a card to pay for the pack is slim to none. There will be a few inserts like kaboom's, color blasts, etc... that will definitely keep their value. However part of the thrill I had in the 90's was actually pulling those cards from packs in my LCS. For me the nostalgia of a 1992 Beam Team is there because I pulled a few of them. Color blasts will never match that excitement for me since I will never pay the insane prices to pull one from a pack. Without that excitement the purchases on eBay are just blah. The 1992 Beam Team set I want to eventually complete though because of the relationship I had with the product.

shayscards79 · 05-25-2021, 10:19 AM

It's pretty much all I collect anymore. I still buy modern but really just for the purposes of flipping.

I haven't bought much lately but I need to get back into it again.

MFaulkCollector · 05-25-2021, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discodanman45

The difference is in the 1990's you could try to get the chase cards in packs. Your only chance now is to buy those cards on eBay. Part of collecting modern IMO is the ripping of wax. I am not a gambler and statistically your chance of getting a card to pay for the pack is slim to none. There will be a few inserts like kaboom's, color blasts, etc... that will definitely keep their value. However part of the thrill I had in the 90's was actually pulling those cards from packs in my LCS. For me the nostalgia of a 1992 Beam Team is there because I pulled a few of them. Color blasts will never match that excitement for me since I will never pay the insane prices to pull one from a pack. Without that excitement the purchases on eBay are just blah. The 1992 Beam Team set I want to eventually complete though because of the relationship I had with the product.

I was never one to open wax..... it just always made more sense to buy what I wanted instead of 99.9% chance of getting stuff I didn't want. But yes, if that is the sentiment then I would absolutely agree with your reasoning and frustration. I think within the next 1-2 years the wax will correct on a lot of items. When all the next 10-18 months worth of PSA bulk orders pop with base and crappy inserts and none of it can be moved other than Brady PSA 10's....... flippers won't even bother and they will move on.... but we need to see that in finished auction sale prices. When this starts to hit the wallet heavy people will be fleeing from low end retail and grading BS cards very quickly

notfast · 05-25-2021, 07:16 PM

I sold off all my modern stuff over the summer of 2020. Started into pre war mainly but dabbled with Mantle, Jackie, Koufax, Clemente stuff.

Over the last few months, I’ve sold everything except my Cobb stuff and a 48 Leaf Jackie.

Much simpler times IMO. Don’t have to watch auctions every day, follow stats every day…basically the day trading aspect of the industry is gone for me.

The only “issue” is that the stuff I want is $3k+. Can’t buy cards like this every week.

05-17-2021, 01:57 PM	#26
gomiamigo Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: in your head Posts: 10,942 esmoney gomiamigo	I forgot I did buy a Hal Greer rc raw but that's the only one. __________________ IG: KevinDurant35Cards

05-19-2021, 05:11 PM	#27
pip Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: French underground Posts: 4,009	Vintage is an interesting proposition because players are mostly retired and prices are usually (but not always!) less volatile. Cards generally increase in value too, as players die and/or make the Hall of Fame. There are plenty of areas of future appreciation too, especially in pre-war hockey and early Bowman football. The other cool thing is that variations are constantly being discovered, which can sometimes cause a $50 card to be worth $5000. Then there's all of the original artwork that can be collected so in that respect, it's a lot like comic books. Edited to add: there's one thing that really fcks up vintage though - all of the card molesters. They ruin values and artificially inflate supplies of ordinarily rare, high-grade cards. If I pay $1000 for some key 1950s card, there's nothing more demoralizing than seeing Moser/PWCC/Probstein/HA sell ten chopped examples of the same card in the next year for progressively less each time. Last edited by pip; 05-19-2021 at 05:21 PM.*

05-19-2021, 08:37 PM	#30
crazy4kinsler Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 16,249	Great move going to vintage. I've decided to sell off all my modern and concentrate solely on vintage. Couple of reasons factored into that (can't find retail, and I don't really bust much anyway other than a pack/blaster here or there and building a flagship Topps set each year and also just risk of injuries, cards going up/down, whatever). You never had to worry about a Mantle, Maris, Snider, etc going down in value. Congrats on starting a vintage collection. I've just started watching the Ken Burns baseball series, so that's peaked my interest even more. I've always been a set builder, and I've decided to build some vintage sets. I built a 1958 Topps set a couple of years ago but had to sell it becaue of the pandemic. So I've restarted that set as well as 57T, 61T, 62T. Just enjoy set building and putting all cards into notebooks. __________________ Twitter & Instagram: @et_cardcollectr Just created a new Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=et_cardcollectr

05-20-2021, 11:15 AM	#31
tnosmoothly Member Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 221 timn541	I love the vintage and often feel better about purchasing a graded vintage star vs. a modern star. For all the reasons people have already shared, it just seems less risky. I jumped back into cards when covid started and went straight to vintage. I Always wanted some t206 cards so my first project began with trying to get all the Detroit Tigers and Toledo cards from the monster set. That has been a lot of fun and tought me a lot. I did learn that you have to be careful buying raw vintage online. I have a lot of good fortune and sent some in for good grades but I just found out a beautiful raw '48 leaf I sent to SGC was trimmed. That's my mistake for not being more careful and luckily the card only cost me $30 but lesson learned. I did eventually get into the modern cards because of my love of sports in general, but I have since backed off a bit. I think I've learned that the vintage collecting gives me more joy (often less stress), but I still enjoy following my tigers and picking up some of their top prospects. I never bought much retail at all so that shortage hasn't bothered me, but I do think it's horrible for the hobby. Retail needs to figure it out so kids can collect and appreciate the hobby. __________________ Always looking for vintage Tigers. Looking to buy Miguel Cabrera RCs

05-25-2021, 12:02 AM	#43
discodanman45 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: CA Posts: 9,603 danch27	I grew up in the junk wax and I am kind of jaded by that experience. I am still collecting cards from that era, but I am careful how I am going forward with it. From a collecting standpoint I am still collecting Rik Smits and Reggie Miller, but the sheer quantity of sets and rookie cards is too much for me to handle. I have about 35 different rookie year cards of Shaq. It overwhelms me as a collector. Another reason I got frustrated is by all my good cards from the 80's and 90's being at PSA for 9 months and COMC holding my cards hostage as well. I am not putting down anyone's collection, we are all here to collect what connects us to the sports we love. I only watch football now. Basketball with half the shots being three pointers and lacking physicality bored me. Not the same game I grew up watching. Baseball is not the same for me as well. I would live to collect modern football, but not at these prices. I agree that 2012 to 2014 cards in football and basketball is where the safer stuff is. 2020 reminds me of the junk wax era where new sets keep on coming out. Fleer Ultra, Flair, Leaf Limited, etc... __________________ Updating my entire collection on Card Ladder. Lots to go... https://www.cardladder.com/showcase/IOBB7AY2qTVVKSgU9Aqj02kfF4I3

05-19-2021, 08:26 PM	#29
mfw13 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 17,144	My advice for someone new to vintage is to develop a collecting project or two to help you focus your spending. That could be a set to build, a player to build a run of, or anything else that tickles your fancy. In addition to Topps baseball products, vintage has a lot of food issues (Post Cereal, Kelloggs, Hostess) which are fun to collect and less expensive. So pick something you like and have at it.....

05-20-2021, 02:11 PM	#35
Papa Stephano Member Join Date: May 2020 Location: Belleville, Ontario, Canada Posts: 58 PapaStephano	After a 26 year break, I returned to the hobby at the begging of last year. I always appreciated vintage but it was too difficult to get 26+ years ago. I didn't even think about vintage when I returned. After a few months I was completely turned off with modern and stopped. My son is starting baseball again soon and I thought I'd get a Dustin May RPA (his favourite player) for his Birthday and came across the modern Allen & Ginter cards on eBay. I love the vintage looks to them. I was looking at some of the 1/1 buybacks to purchase since I thought to myself "those 1800 cards are too expensive to buy". To my pleasant surprise, some of them are very affordable (and some aren't!). And this is when I completely forgot about modern. I'm still looking for my first Vintage purchase with a limit of $200, and have my eye on a graded 1910 T210 Old Mill. I'm just waiting for a reply from the seller. One of the things I want to do is buy cards without using eBay if possible. I'd like to meet new people in the hobby and build a network of people with similar interests.

05-21-2021, 01:57 PM	#37
bmattioli86 Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Madawaska, Maine Posts: 488 https://ebay.com/usr/bmattioli86	its funny that i stumbled across this thread, because over the last few weeks i have been debating on doing exactly what you had said, getting into vintage and forgetting about modern. Don't get me wrong, modern and ultra modern has a good story line right now.. and its interesting enough to follow along from a distance and not have to dump money on players that may never pan out, or stars who sign big contracts and end up getting lazy. been collecting only vintage baseball and some jordans. fun to say the very least and love the art and feel of the 60's-70's. i have also only been collecting raw copies, but do plan to send them into a grading service that i think they would all look really nice in. once all the dust settles of course and most of the grading companies figure out their pricing and turn around times.

05-24-2021, 08:06 PM	#40
MFaulkCollector Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5,987	Vintage-Modern............. that is the way to go. Get the oldest examples of modern legacy sets, themes, designs. Prizms are cool, they are modern........... they are also overproduced in 2020 yet still sell high....... go get some 2013 colors which are all under 500 copies, some likely under 150...... get some 2012 greens and red die cuts..... these are all undervalued for HOF's... topps chrome should have taught people this, yet here we are again Select is being produced in mass quantities...... retail fever.... prices are crashing....... but the brand itself is still very popular.... people don't like the 3 levels; well there is great news.... 13 and 14 select is just one card per player and limited colors, all serial numbered and rare............ same theme as chrome just not quite as popular.. so let's just compare it to finest colors...... we saw the older rare refractors skyrocket.... you'd think we would learn by now We have all seen the reviews and hysteria with bball galactics in revolution........football has them in unparalleled and after an initial popular out period, nobody cared. Panini didn't even make the product this year which will either make them freakishly scarce if they cancel it altogether or create separation from the first two years to the current year if it turns into a legacy set I could go on all day.... there are so many ways to learn from what has happened over the years and not have to pay a ton for great long term items. For those who just love vintage, that's great. Everyone should collect what they love.... but for those who have turned to vintage just because of modern pricing.... pssssshhhhh; don't be defeated by 2020 prices, just be creative and look at historical trends.

05-25-2021, 09:58 AM	#46
discodanman45 Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: CA Posts: 9,603 danch27	The difference is in the 1990's you could try to get the chase cards in packs. Your only chance now is to buy those cards on eBay. Part of collecting modern IMO is the ripping of wax. I am not a gambler and statistically your chance of getting a card to pay for the pack is slim to none. There will be a few inserts like kaboom's, color blasts, etc... that will definitely keep their value. However part of the thrill I had in the 90's was actually pulling those cards from packs in my LCS. For me the nostalgia of a 1992 Beam Team is there because I pulled a few of them. Color blasts will never match that excitement for me since I will never pay the insane prices to pull one from a pack. Without that excitement the purchases on eBay are just blah. The 1992 Beam Team set I want to eventually complete though because of the relationship I had with the product.

05-25-2021, 10:19 AM	#47
shayscards79 Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,876 shayscards79	It's pretty much all I collect anymore. I still buy modern but really just for the purposes of flipping. I haven't bought much lately but I need to get back into it again. __________________ Cubs and Colts fan!!! Collecting all vintage stars... especially Ernie Banks Collecting any and all Indianapolis Colts cards

05-25-2021, 07:16 PM	#49
notfast Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: MD Posts: 4,033	I sold off all my modern stuff over the summer of 2020. Started into pre war mainly but dabbled with Mantle, Jackie, Koufax, Clemente stuff. Over the last few months, I’ve sold everything except my Cobb stuff and a 48 Leaf Jackie. Much simpler times IMO. Don’t have to watch auctions every day, follow stats every day…basically the day trading aspect of the industry is gone for me. The only “issue” is that the stuff I want is $3k+. Can’t buy cards like this every week.