Kobe Finest RC Refractors Overrated or Underrated

[jbball50]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

It’s in a finest series 2 set, while finest series 1 already have Kobe rc card. It was never considered a true rookie card, but simply a card in a rookie year.

Lol what

[mglevy125]

Originally Posted by mc1

Series 1 has a copyright of 1996
Series 2 has a copyright of 1997

One was released before the other



Its rookie year card

Base is always the true rc.

This is wild frame of thought. It’s obvious that the cards in question being “true” rcs are irrelevant. If the majority of people cared or thought that way, refractors and atomic refractors from the 90s wouldn’t be selling for exponentially higher than their respective base versions.

[Brent72]

Originally Posted by Adam85

I'll just sit quietly in the corner with my Bowman's Best refractor.

I've got the Atomic Ref. Awesome card.

[sebreg]

Originally Posted by mglevy125

This is wild frame of thought. It’s obvious that the cards in question being “true” rcs are irrelevant. If the majority of people cared or thought that way, refractors and atomic refractors from the 90s wouldn’t be selling for exponentially higher than their respective base versions.

Yeah, the vast majority of the market considers it rc and places rc premiums on those cards. A lot of this stuff is a question of perception. Narrow definitions can be fine, everyone has their own parameters, but the reality of the marketplace is premiuming this stuff as it sees fit and I don't see that changing (people aren't going to start getting nit picky on these type of subtleties/details, plus I remember the Kobe Gold being considered RC back in the day when it came out).

[mc1]

Originally Posted by mglevy125

This is wild frame of thought. It’s obvious that the cards in question being “true” rcs are irrelevant. If the majority of people cared or thought that way, refractors and atomic refractors from the 90s wouldn’t be selling for exponentially higher than their respective base versions.

Well, refractors and parallels are much more rare than the base.

You dont think the matter of supply affects prices?

Originally Posted by sebreg

plus I remember the Kobe Gold being considered RC back in the day when it came out).

Nope

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by mglevy125

This is wild frame of thought. It’s obvious that the cards in question being “true” rcs are irrelevant. If the majority of people cared or thought that way, refractors and atomic refractors from the 90s wouldn’t be selling for exponentially higher than their respective base versions.

Obviously being a true rookie card isn’t the only factor that influences a card’s price, rarity and public perceptions are factors as well. Most collectors value rc parallel much more than just a rookie card, and usually more than whatever people call that finest gold refractor card.

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by jbball50

Lol what

Huh? Are you asking me to rephrase my statement or are you disagreeing with it?

[mglevy125]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

Obviously being a true rookie card isn’t the only factor that influences a card’s price, rarity and public perceptions are factors as well. Most collectors value rc parallel much more than just a rookie card, and usually more than whatever people call that finest gold refractor card.

That’s proving the point though, you’re referring to the parallels as rcs. Someone posted earlier that those aren’t RCs, they’re rookie year, which seems ridiculous.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by mglevy125

That’s proving the point though, you’re referring to the parallels as rcs. Someone posted earlier that those aren’t RCs, they’re rookie year, which seems ridiculous.

Thats your opinion.

[swaggyballcards]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

There are a lot of collectors (and investors, frankly) who are moving away from the Topps Chrome refractors and into the Finest Bronze and Gold Kobe refractors due to the greening on the TC. The Finest cards can green as well, but it is less prevalent and to much less of a degree. Plus, the Finest Gold is one of the most visually appealing cards of all-time and is ultra rare, especially in Mint and Gem Mint condition. I envision the Finest Gold outselling the Topps Chrome refractor in 5-10 years.

New to learning about greening

1. Does this only happen to chromes / refractors?

2. Would a base Topps Kobe be okay?

3. I'm also considering the base Bowman's Best and Finest cards (cool poses / design). But greening makes me concerned. What do you all think?

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by CardmanDan

PSA 9’s are well over 10k now. Where do you think these can go on Kobe Bryant Day AKA his Hall of Fame Induction? PSA 9 Topps Chrome Refractors are 42-50k, I heard his Finest Refractors are rarer & the packs were more expensive upon its release in 1996. Let’s discuss

Has there ever been a consensus on the Finest Gold refractor being rarer than the Topps Chrome refractor? I'm curious about this cause although the gold refractor is inserted at 1 in 288 packs, there are only 18 different gold refractors, so the odds of one is 1 in 5,184 packs. The Topps chrome refractor odds is 1 in 12 packs, but the set has 220 cards, so the odds of getting one is 1 in 2,640. Simply looking at the numbers, it seems that there should be roughly 2x as much Topps Chrome refractor as the Finest Gold refractor, but since the Topps Chrome set was shorted printed and retail exclusive, I'm pretty sure that there are less packs of them made than Finest series 2.

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

There are a lot of collectors (and investors, frankly) who are moving away from the Topps Chrome refractors and into the Finest Bronze and Gold Kobe refractors due to the greening on the TC. The Finest cards can green as well, but it is less prevalent and to much less of a degree. Plus, the Finest Gold is one of the most visually appealing cards of all-time and is ultra rare, especially in Mint and Gem Mint condition. I envision the Finest Gold outselling the Topps Chrome refractor in 5-10 years.

Greening in Finest may be less prevalent, but it would be great if it didn't happen to my card:[url=https://flic.kr/p/2iyqGPo]

Also, in regards to the Gold refractor card being the most visually appealing card, that's kinda subjective cause although I love the gold and refractor design, the bottom up picture of Kobe is one of my least favorite picture of his.

[sebreg]

Originally Posted by swaggyballcards

New to learning about greening

1. Does this only happen to chromes / refractors?

2. Would a base Topps Kobe be okay?

3. I'm also considering the base Bowman's Best and Finest cards (cool poses / design). But greening makes me concerned. What do you all think?

The Topps Nba 50th is a nice option with chrome-like foil. Very condition sensitive. Greening mostly an issue for finest and chrome, not base or nba 50. The bowman are nice too, I love the atomic refractors

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by swaggyballcards

New to learning about greening

1. Does this only happen to chromes / refractors?

2. Would a base Topps Kobe be okay?

3. I'm also considering the base Bowman's Best and Finest cards (cool poses / design). But greening makes me concerned. What do you all think?

Yes, base Chromes, Finest, and Bowman's Best along with their refractor parallels can green. A base paper Topps RC will not green. Now, if you keep it in a south facing window for 10 years, who knows, but no, they don't green.

Honestly, there is no scientific rule on the greening issue. However, 1993 Finest base and refractors have 98% greened. There are virtually 0 cards from that set that don't have some greening and most are Hulk-like. Topps did much better on the 1994 Finest set and you can easily pick up a non-green base and/or refractor. Same thing for 1995. But again in 1996, you see Finest base and refractors with greening issue.

Topps Chrome's inaugural release in 1996 is almost as bad as 1993's Finest and a good amount of the cards (base and refractors) have greened. The Kobe is notoriously leading that set in Hulking, but I'd venture to say it is due to card stores and other collectors having them on display more than the other cards in the set, therefore exposing them to more UV light. 1997 was also a bad year for TC as a good amount of those cards have greening present as well. For some unknown reason, Topps seems to have figured it out by 1998. There would be virtually no greening on any card after 1997 from Topps.

I'm also not exactly sure if greening gets worse if you keep the card from being exposed to UV light. I've had a few cards with slight greening that did not progress further than when I first bought them. I keep all of my cards in a humidity controlled environment with no UV light, though.

Originally Posted by Kobefan

Has there ever been a consensus on the Finest Gold refractor being rarer than the Topps Chrome refractor? I'm curious about this cause although the gold refractor is inserted at 1 in 288 packs, there are only 18 different gold refractors, so the odds of one is 1 in 5,184 packs. The Topps chrome refractor odds is 1 in 12 packs, but the set has 220 cards, so the odds of getting one is 1 in 2,640. Simply looking at the numbers, it seems that there should be roughly 2x as much Topps Chrome refractor as the Finest Gold refractor, but since the Topps Chrome set was shorted printed and retail exclusive, I'm pretty sure that there are less packs of them made than Finest series 2.

That sounds correct. Going strictly off of PSA/BGS pop reports, the Finest Gold refractor is approx. 2x rarer (I combined w/ peel and w/o peel in the Finest numbers).

Topps Chrome #138 refractor:

PSA total graded - (404)
BGS total graded - (289)

Topps Finest Gold #269 refractor:

PSA total graded - (204)
BGS total graded - (182)

[shootit]

overrated to me, they jus dont look good

[Dame]

Originally Posted by sebreg

The Topps Nba 50th is a nice option with chrome-like foil. Very condition sensitive. Greening mostly an issue for finest and chrome, not base or nba 50. The bowman are nice too, I love the atomic refractors

I love the NBA 50 foil. Give me that over a greening base TC.

[Hellcat]

Way more re-subbing on the chrome refractors do to the big value. The numbers are way closer if not lower than the Finest refractors.

[Hellcat]

Originally Posted by Dame

I love the NBA 50 foil. Give me that over a greening base TC.

I do like the look not going to lie. I have one at PSA as we speak should 9 for sure crossing fingers for gem saw no flaw on the card.

[swaggyballcards]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Yes, base Chromes, Finest, and Bowman's Best along with their refractor parallels can green. A base paper Topps RC will not green. Now, if you keep it in a south facing window for 10 years, who knows, but no, they don't green.

Honestly, there is no scientific rule on the greening issue. However, 1993 Finest base and refractors have 98% greened. There are virtually 0 cards from that set that don't have some greening and most are Hulk-like. Topps did much better on the 1994 Finest set and you can easily pick up a non-green base and/or refractor. Same thing for 1995. But again in 1996, you see Finest base and refractors with greening issue.

Topps Chrome's inaugural release in 1996 is almost as bad as 1993's Finest and a good amount of the cards (base and refractors) have greened. The Kobe is notoriously leading that set in Hulking, but I'd venture to say it is due to card stores and other collectors having them on display more than the other cards in the set, therefore exposing them to more UV light. 1997 was also a bad year for TC as a good amount of those cards have greening present as well. For some unknown reason, Topps seems to have figured it out by 1998. There would be virtually no greening on any card after 1997 from Topps.

I'm also not exactly sure if greening gets worse if you keep the card from being exposed to UV light. I've had a few cards with slight greening that did not progress further than when I first bought them. I keep all of my cards in a humidity controlled environment with no UV light, though.



That sounds correct. Going strictly off of PSA/BGS pop reports, the Finest Gold refractor is approx. 2x rarer (I combined w/ peel and w/o peel in the Finest numbers).

Topps Chrome #138 refractor:

PSA total graded - (404)
BGS total graded - (289)

Topps Finest Gold #269 refractor:

PSA total graded - (204)
BGS total graded - (182)

1. Thanks everyone for the great info & greening history! I'll factor these points into my purchasing decision

2. Out of Kobe's rookie set, are Chromes, Finest, and Bowman's the ones to watch out for regarding greening? Does anything happy to the Flair Showcase foil? (I'm new to materials and only collecting for PC)

Thanks in advance!

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by swaggyballcards

1. Thanks everyone for the great info & greening history! I'll factor these points into my purchasing decision

2. Out of Kobe's rookie set, are Chromes, Finest, and Bowman's the ones to watch out for regarding greening? Does anything happy to the Flair Showcase foil? (I'm new to materials and only collecting for PC)

Thanks in advance!

No, only those 3 sets can turn green.

[mglevy125]

Do you guys know the grading parameters for the 96 Bowman’s best? It looks like bgs grades tough on centering, which I don’t understand. There’s no border on the card, how do they determine centering?

[Dame]

Originally Posted by mglevy125

Do you guys know the grading parameters for the 96 Bowman’s best? It looks like bgs grades tough on centering, which I don’t understand. There’s no border on the card, how do they determine centering?

They flip a coin in BGS what's centered or not when it comes to Bowman's.

[Dame]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

I do like the look not going to lie. I have one at PSA as we speak should 9 for sure crossing fingers for gem saw no flaw on the card.

Hope you get a 10, those are extremely tough grade. Had one in perfect condition and I guess a tiny part of the foil came off during grading. It still got a 9.5 on all 4 but yeah a bummer.

[Hellcat]

Originally Posted by Dame

Hope you get a 10, those are extremely tough grade. Had one in perfect condition and I guess a tiny part of the foil came off during grading. It still got a 9.5 on all 4 but yeah a bummer.

You had to say it! That’s my worry also!

[duron]

Originally Posted by mglevy125

Do you guys know the grading parameters for the 96 Bowman’s best? It looks like bgs grades tough on centering, which I don’t understand. There’s no border on the card, how do they determine centering?

Levy aren’t you a big, big time seller?

Even if there’s no uniform border on a card the centering still applies all the same. You can utilize things like player/team text and set logos as markers.