Who is the MVP to date?

[cardsdownunder]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

It's still LeBron.

When he wants to... he just takes over a game. Just can't do it 82 games and the playoffs. A motivated LeBron is still MVP... just like MJ back in the day.

so true mate. and he's the best defender of the three, though defense tends to get completely discounted in the mvp race. with lebron's three-ball falling, he is looking like a baaaad man. i bet russ will get the mvp in the end, though. if so, i'll be happy for him as he stuck with his team and is a warrior.

[Andy5]

Originally Posted by the27guy

I voted harden too. I don't like him. But as of right now, it's him.

That's how I feel about it too.

I would have Lebron second with Westbrook third due to his team record.

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by kyleuk21

Russ is averaging something like 31/10/10 which is stronger than harden. Gotta go with Russ but not by much.

if it was all about stats i would agree. we all know team record does have a huge part in mvp (curry 14-15) and with the rockets having the edge over the thunder, i give the nod to harden. now if harden had a stacked team, i would give the nod to russ but both teams have underwhelming lineups without their star players.

[daeve]

RW's putting up great numbers but he doesn't necessarily make his team that much better. Would they be worse without him? Yeah absolutely, but are any of the top teams scared of them? No.

That's something Harden's been doing this year. His team is playing lights-out and they're gonna be scary to play in the playoffs, I could see them beating any of the LAC/SA/GS in a tight series.

And one thing Giannis does that RW doesn't is play defense. RW has Adams and Roberson to take a huge defensive burden off of him. Giannis has all average to below defenders around him and Henson doesn't really play enough minutes to be considered the big anchoring the D in the middle. Giannis has been doing that, in addition to leading his team in every meaningful category. Like I said in my previous post, IF they end up a 3-4 seed he absolutely deserves to be in the MVP race

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by daeve

RW's putting up great numbers but he doesn't necessarily make his team that much better. Would they be worse without him? Yeah absolutely, but are any of the top teams scared of them? No.

That's something Harden's been doing this year. His team is playing lights-out and they're gonna be scary to play in the playoffs, I could see them beating any of the LAC/SA/GS in a tight series.

And one thing Giannis does that RW doesn't is play defense. RW has Adams and Roberson to take a huge defensive burden off of him. Giannis has all average to below defenders around him and Henson doesn't really play enough minutes to be considered the big anchoring the D in the middle. Giannis has been doing that, in addition to leading his team in every meaningful category. Like I said in my previous post, IF they end up a 3-4 seed he absolutely deserves to be in the MVP race

What's 3-4 worth in the east really though? There are two good teams in the conference.

In the west, I'd agree with you. But as of now I don't really feel like it's worth very much out east.

I like your guy. He's having an unreal season. Second team all NBA would be unreal! But I feel like you're putting your fan goggles on here a little. Talking about him in the realm of those other 4 seems premature.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by the27guy

What's 3-4 worth in the east really though? There are two good teams in the conference.

In the west, I'd agree with you. But as of now I don't really feel like it's worth very much out east.

I like your guy. He's having an unreal season. Second team all NBA would be unreal! But I feel like you're putting your fan goggles on here a little. Talking about him in the realm of those other 4 seems premature.

Agree with this.

The Giannis argument totally falls apart when you take Lebron into consideration.

Lebron is still better than Giannis, and while the numbers might not be that far off, and the team's records are not even close.

Milwaukee is a .500 team fighting for a playoff spot. Cleveland is cruising to the East's #1 seed, despite injuries and resting players, and maybe believe they are the best team in basketball. The Cavs are 25-4 with Lebron in the lineup, 0-3 without him.

Lebron is a proven winner, whereas Giannis is just starting to prove that he is a top level player.

Just compare the two an there is no way Giannis comes out on top unless there is a serious injury to Lebron down the stretch.

[oshmeehan]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Nor is he doing anything history in a year in which others are.

Don't get me wrong, heck of a player, and may be a serious candidate in the coming years, but this point in the season he's not even close.

I don't think Giannis should be MVP, but you couldn't be any more wrong about Giannis not doing anything historic this season. Just taking his current PPG, RPG, and APG the only players in NBA history to put up the same or better numbers in a season are Wilt, Oscar, Bird, Havlicek, and Westbrook this season.

Taking his 2 SPG and 2 BPG this season it's only been done by Hakeem, the Admiral, and Gerald Wallace.

Hell, the game he had yesterday, 35 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, 7 blocks, 2 steals had never been done before

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by oshmeehan

I don't think Giannis should be MVP, but you couldn't be any more wrong about Giannis not doing anything historic this season. Just taking his current PPG, RPG, and APG the only players in NBA history to put up the same or better numbers in a season are Wilt, Oscar, Bird, Havlicek, and Westbrook this season.

Taking his 2 SPG and 2 BPG this season it's only been done by Hakeem, the Admiral, and Gerald Wallace.

Hell, the game he had yesterday, 35 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, 7 blocks, 2 steals had never been done before

And Gerald Wallace tells you something right there.

When I say historic I mean the core things you look at and track, not some obscure combination that rules out great years because of the inclusion of one perimeter.

Things that are historic are averaging 36 ppg like Jordan/Kobe, a triple-double like Westbrook, 73 wins like Curry.

And if the Bucks were neck and neck for the best record in the East with Cleveland, he would totally have a case. But instead they are .500 in a year when you have Westbrook and Harden leading their teams to much better records with similar supporting casts.

[robert0629]

I went with Harden. Right now it's between him and Westbrook. If Westbrook finishes the season averaging a triple-double, it's going to be difficult to justify giving it to anyone but him, assuming OKC wins at least 50 games.

LeBron is a distant 3rd at this point. I don't feel that he's that much ahead of Giannis either. The Bucks' record does hurt Giannis, but he doesn't have the team around him that LeBron does. For those who like advanced stats Giannis is 2nd in PER, LeBron is 10th. He has more win shares than LeBron. Defensively he's better than LeBron. Giannis also leads his team in all five major statistical categories - points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. I believe this is something that's only been done five times in NBA history.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by daeve

RW's putting up great numbers but he doesn't necessarily make his team that much better.

Is this a serious comment? Haha. Gotta be kidding me.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Is this a serious comment? Haha. Gotta be kidding me.

Because Criston, Olapdio, Roberson, Sabonis and Adams would be leading their division on their own.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Is this a serious comment? Haha. Gotta be kidding me.

No joke...swear people discredit Russ just to do it. I agree it's a tight race and I'm not going to argue with people who give to Harden, he's right up there and his team is better but to say the team wouldn't be much worse if Russ WASN'T THERE is ridiculous, especially with Olidipo being out what the last 10 or 11 games? Without Russ, this is bottom of the barrel lottery team, not even coming close to sniffing leading the division. C'mon now

[oshmeehan]

Originally Posted by tjforce

And Gerald Wallace tells you something right there.

When I say historic I mean the core things you look at and track, not some obscure combination that rules out great years because of the inclusion of one perimeter.

Things that are historic are averaging 36 ppg like Jordan/Kobe, a triple-double like Westbrook, 73 wins like Curry.

And if the Bucks were neck and neck for the best record in the East with Cleveland, he would totally have a case. But instead they are .500 in a year when you have Westbrook and Harden leading their teams to much better records with similar supporting casts.

Because the combination of PPG, RPG, and APG is an obscure combination? Get real man.

If it's only been done by a handful of players before then that is something historic. If you want to say historic is something that happens only one time, then great. But that would exclude Westbrook and Harden from doing anything historic as well.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by oshmeehan

Because the combination of PPG, RPG, and APG is an obscure combination? Get real man.

If it's only been done by a handful of players before then that is something historic. If you want to say historic is something that happens only one time, then great. But that would exclude Westbrook and Harden from doing anything historic as well.

What I'm saying is that its obscure to have some random cut off of lets say 8.5 rebounds, because now you are cutting out anyone who had a season of 30/7.5/9, which would be better than what Giannis is doing.

For example, it cuts out MJ's 32/8/8 season. It's just overlapping stats to find a unique combination, not historic.

Heck, I could use the same logic to say that Rudy Gobert should be the MVP because he's the only player in history to shoot over 70%, with 13 rebounds per game, 2.5 blocks per game, while playing for a team tied for first in the division.

See what I'm getting at?

[oshmeehan]

Originally Posted by tjforce

What I'm saying is that its obscure to have some random cut off of lets say 8.5 rebounds, because now you are cutting out anyone who had a season of 30/7.5/9, which would be better than what Giannis is doing.

For example, it cuts out MJ's 32/8/8 season. It's just overlapping stats to find a unique combination, not historic.

Heck, I could use the same logic to say that Rudy Gobert should be the MVP because he's the only player in history to shoot over 70%, with 13 rebounds per game, 2.5 blocks per game, while playing for a team tied for first in the division.

See what I'm getting at?

Your Gobert example is being extreme. I wasn't being extreme using the three most recognized statistics.

BTW, I already said in this thread that I don't think Giannis should be MVP. But he definitely is in the Top 10 no doubt.

[daeve]

ok, here's something that's not obscure... Giannis is having a better statistical season than LeBron, and his team is in the playoffs despite his team being damn near terrible [and they haven't had their 2nd-best player play a minute this season].

The Thunder aren't a bottom-of-the-barrel team without RW, the Bucks are without Giannis. Adams and Oladipo are 1st division starters on just about any team, and Roberson is elite defensively and would carve out minutes on any team. Giannis has Jabari and hasn't had a minute of Middleton's help this year.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by daeve

The Thunder aren't a bottom-of-the-barrel team without RW, the Bucks are without Giannis. Adams and Oladipo are 1st division starters on just about any team, and Roberson is elite defensively and would carve out minutes on any team. Giannis has Jabari and hasn't had a minute of Middleton's help this year.

You kidding? Thunder are bottom of the barrel in the West without Westbrook. They wouldn't even be competitive without him.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by pgisback

You kidding? Thunder are bottom of the barrel in the West without Westbrook. They wouldn't even be competitive without him.

Not sure if you're just underrating Adams or Dipo or Billy Donovan or all 3, but they would be way better than the bottom-tier West teams.

[kairi-2008]

I voted LBJ because he is playing at a high level, as are the other two I like, but he has wins.

[Melagoo]

Derozan

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by daeve

Not sure if you're just underrating Adams or Dipo or Billy Donovan or all 3, but they would be way better than the bottom-tier West teams.

You gotta be kidding me... Dipo couldn't even make Orlando competitive in the East and you think he's good enough to make the Thunder competitive in the West??

Adams
Dipo
Christon
Roberson
Sabonis

No bench. Yea, they'd be bottom of the barrel in the west without Westbrook. Not even competitive.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by pgisback

You gotta be kidding me... Dipo couldn't even make Orlando competitive in the East and you think he's good enough to make the Thunder competitive in the West??

Adams
Dipo
Christon
Roberson
Sabonis

No bench. Yea, they'd be bottom of the barrel in the west without Westbrook. Not even competitive.

That team might complete for 8th in the west if they gelled right. That's not saying much though.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by the27guy

That team might complete for 8th in the west if they gelled right. That's not saying much though.

This year, maybe because the drop off is so deep. But fighting for the 8th spot in the west is bottom of the barrel status at this point.

[GeechQuest]

Im prefacing this with Lebron is the best player in the NBA. He gets it done on both sides of the floor. That said, if we switch out Lebron and put in someone like Carmelo or maybe even a Gordon Hayward, the Cavs are more than likely still a 3 seed in the East, and quite possibly still the 1 seed.

I know the Bucks are never on TV, but I watch them almost every game because what Giannis is doing right now needs to be seen. I don't know where to rank him, but he's definitely top 10, probably top 7, and possibly top 5 in the league. The fact that we discount Giannis for playing in the East but plenty above are praising Lebron for playing in the same conference isn't fair.

Again, Giannis isn't better than Lebron, but he's not as far off as some would lead you to believe. He does EVERYTHING for the Bucks (like Westbrook), but unlike Russ he also does that thing some forget about, DEFENSE. The guy can and has guarded all 5 positions on the court in a game.

The top 2 for MVP this year are Harden and Westbrook. Your next 2 are Lebron and Giannis. The Bucks are only 3 games back of the 3 seed in the East, and I have to believe if Middleton was playing not only would Giannis assists be higher, but the Bucks would have that 3 seed locked up, maybe even the 2.

[deemsterz33]

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

Harden, Lebron 2nd and Russ 3rd. If the Thunder were better easily Russ. Good thing the poll is now cause by seasons end who knows Thunder could be better than Rockets. Rockets are a good team but shooting 40 3's a game won't work in the playoffs.

I think you may have made the first bit of your statement without looking at the standings. OKC has the 6th best record in the NBA right now.