2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by discostu

I'm not saying that your point is invalidated, it's just weaker than it should be. Why? Because you chose to slant the minutia. The fact that two clearly liberal leaning shills were thrown up there in some sort of forum for undecideds is a problem. We know this.

We pass around garbage without paying attention to facts. We need to stop. Especially when the real facts are troubling enough.

I have no issue debating, not in the slightest, I just can't fathom the need to lie about the minutia unless it's a generally weak argument. That's not the case here, so I'm not sure why you choose to make it appear worse. It's bad as it is...stick with that.

As for "you continue to add imflamitory posts and remarks about Trump and what his supporters will defend but ignore repeated requests to provide examples," I'm not about to go back and hunt these down, so if you know any off-hand...let's have at it.

Serious.

You spent four pages arguing about the inconsequential idea that Jesse Jackson physically handed Donald Trump an award for God's sake. The point was to show that Jackson spoke of Trump and his ability to bring races together and yet you hammered, post after post that no actual award was given. Like it had any meaning to the overall point from the OP on that topic.

Again, you've taken the minutia and used it as a tool to invalidate a point that is absolutely meaningless. It's like a thing for you IDK.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

You spent four pages arguing about the inconsequential idea that Jesse Jackson physically handed Donald Trump an award for God's sake. The point was to show that Jackson spoke of Trump and his ability to bring races together and yet you hammered, post after post that no actual award was given. Like it had any meaning to the overall point from the OP on that topic.

Again, you've taken the minutia and used it as a tool to invalidate a point that is absolutely meaningless. It's like a thing for you IDK.

And specifically on this point, the OP thought an award was given. He didn't skew the facts or was trying to deceive... he was simply showing a link that said he won an award (then defensive, yes). Instead of just accepting the point and saying something along the lines of "I don't think he won an award but I get it" you attempt to prove something that doesn't exist.

[wood minis]

Savannah Guthrie was wrong. He actually is like someone's crazy uncle.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

You spent four pages arguing about the inconsequential idea that Jesse Jackson physically handed Donald Trump an award for God's sake. The point was to show that Jackson spoke of Trump and his ability to bring races together and yet you hammered, post after post that no actual award was given. Like it had any meaning to the overall point from the OP on that topic.

Again, you've taken the minutia and used it as a tool to invalidate a point that is absolutely meaningless. It's like a thing for you IDK.

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

And specifically on this point, the OP thought an award was given. He didn't skew the facts or was trying to deceive... he was simply showing a link that said he won an award (then defensive, yes). Instead of just accepting the point and saying something along the lines of "I don't think he won an award but I get it" you attempt to prove something that doesn't exist.

Really? The point was to somehow show that Trump wasn't racist because he won an award from Jesse Jackson. An award that never existed. That proves no point other than, "good grief is it difficult to prove someone is not a racist, so difficult that I have to make up an award."

It should have died after my first post, instead it lasted four pages because others failed to do basic due diligence.

Alas, this is the example to highlight a flaw in my "debating" or whatever else?

I'm dumbfounded.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by discostu

Really? The point was to somehow show that Trump wasn't racist because he won an award from Jesse Jackson. An award that never existed. That proves no point other than, "good grief is it difficult to prove someone is not a racist, so difficult that I have to make up an award."

It should have died after my first post, instead it lasted four pages because others failed to do basic due diligence.

Alas, this is the example to highlight a flaw in my "debating" or whatever else?

I'm dumbfounded.

My attempt was not to have you find dumbness rather to show that you consistently argue in bad faith; attempting to tackle less than secondary aspects of a premise rather than simply accepting, that while not perfectly written or sourced, that the premise make sense.

Then, as you note, the conversation drifts into oblivion rather than actually having a debate on the merits. Nothing is accomplished except that you prove a completely inconsequential point; dishonestly.

Attack the idea that Trump receiving praise from Jesse Jackson matters; attack the idea that NBC put dem voters in a group of "undecided" and it's dishonest. You'd rather spend your time dotting the i's and crossing the t's of a message board forum. No different than the people who reply "you're" or it's".

Waste of time.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

My attempt was not to have you find dumbness rather to show that you consistently argue in bad faith; attempting to tackle less than secondary aspects of a premise rather than simply accepting, that while not perfectly written or sourced, that the premise make sense.

Then, as you note, the conversation drifts into oblivion rather than actually having a debate on the merits. Nothing is accomplished except that you prove a completely inconsequential point; dishonestly.

Attack the idea that Trump receiving praise from Jesse Jackson matters; attack the idea that NBC put dem voters in a group of "undecided" and it's dishonest. You'd rather spend your time dotting the i's and crossing the t's of a message board forum. No different than the people who reply "you're" or it's".

Waste of time.

So by highlighting that the "facts" used to strengthen an argument are most certainly not facts is me arguing in bad faith? Wow, what a world we live in.

Someone using made-up stories to try to factually back up an opinion isn't bad faith...it's only bad faith if you highlight the lie.

I've already said and clearly agree that the town hall shills are indeed problematic, no need to skew the actual facts.

We bastardize facts with reckless abandon. We shouldn't. Facts should matter, especially when debating or discussing things as fact.

These are not mere grammatical errors. You know this. There is no comparison.

[Astros19]

And we knitpick miniscule items when we have no other avenue to disprove.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by discostu

So by highlighting that the "facts" used to strengthen an argument are most certainly not facts is me arguing in bad faith? Wow, what a world we live in. Someone using made-up stories to try to factually back up an opinion isn't bad faith...it's only bad faith if you highlight the lie.

I've already said and clearly agree that the town hall shills are indeed problematic, no need to skew the actual facts. We bastardize facts with reckless abandon. We shouldn't. Facts should matter, especially when debating or discussing things as fact.

These are not mere grammatical errors. You know this. There is no comparison.

No, I don't. This is the disconnect.

When someone says 60,000 people did X and the fact is that 50,000 people did; unless that difference truly matters to the argument; then it is just like grammar. Perhaps the poster embellished, perhaps they deceived intentionally or perhaps it was just a mistake that has no bearing on the idea. I'm always going to take #3... and my reply will always be "I think you meant 60,000 but here's my response to your point"

I'm here for substance, argument, debate, and occasional trolling w/ respect of everyone other than jdandns. If you insist on highlighting likely mistakes that make no bit of difference which then derails a potential argument of substance, then I'm sorry... you're value is that of MS Word which now highlights so many blue and purple squiggly lines I've had to turn off the whole damn thing. (They would have me remove damn as their suggestion, screw them)

[wood minis]

sometimes its OK not to have the last word and just move on...

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

We don't, we need to spend the money keeping the at risk safe, while everyone else goes back to normal. It's frustrating to see them send money to people that don't need it.

What money? I know you're talking about the 1.8 trillion dollar package being considered, but that money does not exist.

I'll say again, I don't understand Trump's logic. In his speeches he has repeatedly said the economy is recovering tremendously. He consistently says we are doing so great, setting records for this or that, job creation, retail sales, whatever. If that's true, why do we need a relief package of 1.8 trillion dollars that we don't even have?

We would, I assume, print the money up. That plays a major role in devaluing our currency and inflation, some of the crapwad tactics Trump himself condemns China for doing.

If we are good, we need no relief package. And if we are not, stop lying about it, Mr. President.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[Pete Schweddy]

It's really got to the point that you're not supposed to be cordial with someone of a different party? Diane Feinstein gets ripped for hugging Graham?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...aham-hearings/

[corndog]

In case anyone cares, these were the two "undecided" democrat plants in last night's town hall serving up softball questions for Biden.
Many of the other audience questions seemed scripted as well.

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by Pete Schweddy

It's really got to the point that you're not supposed to be cordial with someone of a different party? Diane Feinstein gets ripped for hugging Graham?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...aham-hearings/

I agree with you man - that was bull$hit she got ripped for that......

No matter who you like, we need to work together.

[Pete Schweddy]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

I agree with you man - that was bull$hit she got ripped for that......

No matter who you like, we need to work together.

Like the great collaboration of Booker and Hatch in a Polynesian folk band?

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by gopherfan

Hold her head under water. If she doesn't drown, witch. If she does drown, not a witch.

ETA: This is not in any way a call for anyone to ever do any actual physical harm to anyone. It was a joke.

I’m gonna call you Newt.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

What money? I know you're talking about the 1.8 trillion dollar package being considered, but that money does not exist.

I'll say again, I don't understand Trump's logic. In his speeches he has repeatedly said the economy is recovering tremendously. He consistently says we are doing so great, setting records for this or that, job creation, retail sales, whatever. If that's true, why do we need a relief package of 1.8 trillion dollars that we don't even have?

We would, I assume, print the money up. That plays a major role in devaluing our currency and inflation, some of the crapwad tactics Trump himself condemns China for doing.

If we are good, we need no relief package. And if we are not, stop lying about it, Mr. President.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

I believe Trump. The economy is fine. People not working are freeloading bums, more participants of the great welfare system.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by corndog

In case anyone cares, these were the two "undecided" democrat plants in last night's town hall serving up softball questions for Biden.
Many of the other audience questions seemed scripted as well.

Proof?

[free2131]

Just saw this on FB.

Dead.

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

I believe Trump. The economy is fine. People not working are freeloading bums, more participants of the great welfare system.

can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, i know you swing left so maybe sarcasm? I have been off work the last 5 weeks, construction industry is at a standstill right now. Customers of the big retail spaces in the city that we had jobs scheduled with are now holding off, not sure if because of covid, election or whatever. its unfortunate, i am on unemployment, and not gonna lie, im pretty ashamed to say that. I believe in earning my paycheck, but i guess on the flipside i paid into unemployment enough over the years of actually getting my butt out of bed to earn my pay that i shouldn't feel bad maybe? i dont know. that said, i dont blame trump for a second, like many like to do. I think he handled the covid issue the best that he could and for anyone to say they had a better plan are likely full of it, it was unprecedented and on the fly, lets cut this guy a break.

[Lonewolf]

So any more Q Anon nuts in here? Now that the dude who used to spew all the crazy Q stuff is gone (maybe he finally realized how absurd it all was), I don't laugh nearly as much when viewing this thread.

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

What money? I know you're talking about the 1.8 trillion dollar package being considered, but that money does not exist.

I'll say again, I don't understand Trump's logic. In his speeches he has repeatedly said the economy is recovering tremendously. He consistently says we are doing so great, setting records for this or that, job creation, retail sales, whatever. If that's true, why do we need a relief package of 1.8 trillion dollars that we don't even have?

We would, I assume, print the money up. That plays a major role in devaluing our currency and inflation, some of the crapwad tactics Trump himself condemns China for doing.

If we are good, we need no relief package. And if we are not, stop lying about it, Mr. President.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Because no relief package means he doesn't look good. Even though he may not want it, it falls on him. Just like COVID. A lot of people think it falls on him. It's pretty simple. Clearly, it's just printing money so why not take the resources to the people who need it? That way, we can all work because we don't need lockdowns, while the at risk can be in a much better situation.

[NeedChapmans]

I'm curious if any voters soften their stance on Trump and his handling of COVID now that almost all of Europe is spiking.

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I'm curious if any voters soften their stance on Trump and his handling of COVID now that almost all of Europe is spiking.

No. Trump did it worse!!! He should have shut it all down!!!

[JustRachel]

For many people, Covid might seem abstract. Maybe they don't know anyone that passed away from it, or maybe not even anyone that had it. For these people, all the precautions and closures might seem like overkill. They might seem like a political stunt. They might seem ridiculous. If a person lives in a place that hasn't seen what this disease can do, I suppose it's easy to call it a media exaggeration. I get it. But that got me to thinking....

I live in Miami. Here are some of our numbers.

Population of Miami-Dade County ~ 2.7 million
Population of the City of Miami ~ 486k
County area ~ 1950 sq miles
City area ~ 55 sq miles

Covid cases
Miami-Dade ~177,000
Miami ~ 74,000

Covid deaths
Miami-Dade ~3500
Miami ~ 1,225

Imagine a square mile around your home. How many cases and deaths would you guess came from that square mile?

An average square mile in our city has had 1,339 cases and 22 deaths so far. Every day 6 or 7 people within a few blocks of me test positive and every 9 days or so one of them dies from Covid. And that's just 1/55 of this city.

If Covid hasn't taken hold in your area yet, don't let it. Please, be sensible and careful.

That's all I wanted to say.



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[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by lietuvalabas

can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, i know you swing left so maybe sarcasm? I have been off work the last 5 weeks, construction industry is at a standstill right now. Customers of the big retail spaces in the city that we had jobs scheduled with are now holding off, not sure if because of covid, election or whatever. its unfortunate, i am on unemployment, and not gonna lie, im pretty ashamed to say that. I believe in earning my paycheck, but i guess on the flipside i paid into unemployment enough over the years of actually getting my butt out of bed to earn my pay that i shouldn't feel bad maybe? i dont know. that said, i dont blame trump for a second, like many like to do. I think he handled the covid issue the best that he could and for anyone to say they had a better plan are likely full of it, it was unprecedented and on the fly, lets cut this guy a break.

Not sarcastic. Lots of jobs available out there. Nobody should be getting handouts anymore.