2016 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - All Politics & Dumb Opinions Here

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by HillbillyCletus

I believe a staggered approach to the deportation issue may be worthwhile. I believe we can work to make the immigration process simpler (though not necessarily easier) and enhance screening processes to better vet potential immigrants.

Which is what Trump proposed last night. Immediately work to deport illegals that have been convicted of crimes in this country, as well as deport those whose countries do not want them back. Then work to tighten immigration laws, borders, visas ... and then finally address the remainder of the illegal immigration population in this country (for which Trump said no Amnesty would be given ... but also did not suggest they would be deported, so kind of a "To be determined").

[HillbillyCletus]

I feel as though the entire populace of illegal immigrants could be broken down into subsets, determining the probability of being deported/allowed to stay. I see nothing wrong with illegal immigrants who are criminals being deported immediately, as they don't add value to this country, regardless of their work status.

Many different options can be weighed. I believe mass amnesty is far more detrimental than selective deportation.

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by HillbillyCletus

I believe a staggered approach to the deportation issue may be worthwhile. I believe we can work to make the immigration process simpler (though not necessarily easier) and enhance screening processes to better vet potential immigrants.

It has to be a staggered approach. It's not feasible to deport 11 million, 16 million, or however many million people in a fast amount of time. It took decades for the problem to get to this point and will take years if not decades to reverse the tide and that's only if we have leaders in place willing to put America and Americans first and not worrying about hurting people's feelings and possibly losing some voter support and their big donor (puppeteer) money. George Soros anyone?

[cruiserdaddy7]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Some would, not all. Not to mention the money these illegals spend in our economy every year for food, utilities, retail, etc. etc. Hillary Clinton said yesterday that there were 16 million illegal immigrants in this country, which has a documented population of about 343M. That would suggest about 1 in 20 in this country are here illegally, so if I snapped my fingers today and these people were not contributing to the economy of the US, it would not be good for anyone.

On the same day, we change the entitlement program and have every able bodied person working instead of sucking off of welfare and social security.

A few weeks of hunger would fill those jobs.

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by HillbillyCletus

I just find it odd that these individuals choose to align themselves with people who have broken the law over their own, legal countrymen.

You and me both. I don't see how they get on tv with a straight face and defend it. There was a lady on CNN last night and she kept talking about illegal immigrants commit less crime as a percentage than Americans like that really matters? 1 preventable crime, death, rape, etc is 1 too many when we have laws on the books that aren't being followed. How does any illegal convicted of a crime get released back into American society?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

On the same day, we change the entitlement program and have every able bodied person working instead of sucking off of welfare and social security.

A few weeks of hunger would fill those jobs.

Keep dreamin'

[zachtruitt]

Farmers and agricultural corporations love illegal immigrants. Next best thing to slave labor.

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Some would, not all. Not to mention the money these illegals spend in our economy every year for food, utilities, retail, etc. etc. Hillary Clinton said yesterday that there were 16 million illegal immigrants in this country, which has a documented population of about 343M. That would suggest about 1 in 20 in this country are here illegally, so if I snapped my fingers today and these people were not contributing to the economy of the US, it would not be good for anyone.

So because it may hurt our economy temporarily imo, we should just let them all stay? If done in a smart manner, many of the impacts can be mitigated imo. I don't think anyone truly believes that we will get all illegals immigrants out in a short time frame. This is something that will take years and years. Or we can just say #@#@#@#@ it and let anyone and everyone come in like Democrat's favorite donor George Soros is in favor of. Do you think it's because he's a multi-billionaire with a heart of gold?

[HillbillyCletus]

I don't understand what "having a heart" has to do with legality when "having a heart" is more subjective than legality.

[NeilCO]

Originally Posted by HillbillyCletus

I don't understand what legality has to do with "having a heart" when "having a heart" is more subjective than legality.

Can you please provide some examples of things people have said about illegal immigrants with which you disagree? I'm not trying to be snarky, and I'm sure they're out there, I just don't know who you are referencing when you talk about individuals who want to accept all illegals, side with illegals over citizens, etc.

President Obama, for his part, has deported more illegal immigrants than any other president in U.S. history.


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[HillbillyCletus]

I have encountered individuals who believe letting illegal immigrants stay in the United States equates to, and I quote, "having a heart". Quotes I have heard from time to time include "They just want a better life" and "America welcomes everyone."

These examples I assume are used as a justification for allowing illegal immigrants to remain in the United States. Do you believe illegal immigrants should be deported?

[HillbillyCletus]

Originally Posted by NeilCO

Can you please provide some examples of things people have said about illegal immigrants with which you disagree? I'm not trying to be snarky, and I'm sure they're out there, I just don't know who you are referencing when you talk about individuals who want to accept all illegals, side with illegals over citizens, etc.

President Obama, for his part, has deported more illegal immigrants than any other president in U.S. history.


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My understanding is that Donald Trump wants to deport illegal immigrants and stop the importation of illegal immigrants. If Donald Trump is wanting to stop a process that is illegal (i.e. illegal immigration) and individuals are against that, does that not mean the opponents of said measure are against legality?

[NeilCO]

Originally Posted by HillbillyCletus

My understanding is that Donald Trump wants to deport illegal immigrants and stop the importation of illegal immigrants. If Donald Trump is wanting to stop a process that is illegal (i.e. illegal immigration) and individuals are against that, does that not mean the opponents of said measure are against legality?

I don't think people are so much against deportation as they are disgusted with his rhetoric. Yes, we should deport illegals, but we should also recognize that they are people rather than calling them rapists, etc.

I read legal cases about aliens requesting asylum, protection under the Convention Against Torture, etc. It takes a lot for an alien to persuade a judge that they will be in imminent danger if removed and need to stay for protection. It is not an area where we're soft on crime.


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[HillbillyCletus]

Originally Posted by NeilCO

I don't think people are so much against deportation as they are disgusted with his rhetoric. Yes, we should deport illegals, but we should also recognize that they are people rather than calling them rapists, etc.

I read legal cases about aliens requesting asylum, protection under the Convention Against Torture, etc. It takes a lot for an alien to persuade a judge that they will be in imminent danger if removed and need to stay for protection. It is not an area where we're soft on crime.


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Are some of the illegal immigrants that have been in the U.S./are currently in the U.S. not rapists? The quote from Trump's candidacy speech did not quantify how many illegal immigrants are rapists/murderers/etc...and how many are not.

[HillbillyCletus]

The quote is:

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

All it would take to prove his comments correct is one example of an illegal immigrant being a rapist. Information is available on the web to justify the claim, and thus, it is validated. He did not lie. What part of his rhetoric is incorrect?

[ensbergcollecto]

Originally Posted by NoleinJax

Just as every black person or person on the border shouldn't speak for all blacks or people living in border states, but that is the state of most of our media.

I live in Florida, a state with hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, & California aren't the only states affected by hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants putting a huge financial burden on a local, state, and federal level.

i was not referring to you in any way. Sorry if it came across that way. I had no idea where anyone lives. My issue is people from the roughly 40-45 states who deal with nearly zero issues as a result of illegal immigration commenting on things as though they have first hand knowledge, when in reality they have no way of knowing or understanding.

[deansayso]

Originally Posted by NoleinJax

I hope all the people that selected neither or don't plan to vote realize that is essentially a vote for Hillary.

Stop saying that...you are only trying to scare people into voting for Trump. If more people have your mentality nothing will truly change. Just the same old garbage.

I know some people who were planning on voting for Bernie/Hillary who will also be voting for another option.

[NeilCO]

Originally Posted by HillbillyCletus

The quote is:



“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”



All it would take to prove his comments correct is one example of an illegal immigrant being a rapist. Information is available on the web to justify the claim, and thus, it is validated. He did not lie. What part of his rhetoric is incorrect?

Let's pretend somebody in a northern state doesn't want people from southern states coming into the northern state. They give a speech, in which they say the exact same thing Trump said, except switching out the key words. ("When southern states send their people," etc.) I'm sure some people from the south who visit or move to the north are rapists, but don't you think the statement is still extremely offensive to all southerners who want to visit a northern state? He still characterized Mexicans in the U.S. as, generally, "not their best."


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[deansayso]

Originally Posted by zachtruitt

Farmers and agricultural corporations love illegal immigrants. Next best thing to slave labor.

Well that's completely false. They make a livable wage just like most low skilled jobs. Actually, most meat packing plants starting wage is 12-16/hour. There are also crews that walk beans for $100/acre. People just don't want to do them. Ever since the Postville, IA incident employers have cracked down on who they hire.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by NoleinJax

Just as every black person or person on the border shouldn't speak for all blacks or people living in border states, but that is the state of most of our media.

I live in Florida, a state with hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, & California aren't the only states affected by hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants putting a huge financial burden on a local, state, and federal level.

Lets not forget New York, just as bad.

[zachtruitt]

Originally Posted by deansayso

Well that's completely false. They make a livable wage just like most low skilled jobs. Actually, most meat packing plants starting wage is 12-16/hour. There are also crews that walk beans for $100/acre. People just don't want to do them. Ever since the Postville, IA incident employers have cracked down on who they hire.

Migrant farm workers make about $8 with no benefits. I know people who catch chickens in 100 degree heat for $6 an hour.

[HillbillyCletus]

Originally Posted by NeilCO

Let's pretend somebody in a northern state doesn't want people from southern states coming into the northern state. They give a speech, in which they say the exact same thing Trump said, except switching out the key words. ("When southern states send their people," etc.) I'm sure some people from the south who visit or move to the north are rapists, but don't you think the statement is still extremely offensive to all southerners who want to visit a northern state? He still characterized Mexicans in the U.S. as, generally, "not their best."


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So we're working under the assumption that the "people from southern states" are indeed legal citizens, correct?

[RossOK]

Originally Posted by HillbillyCletus

The quote is:

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

All it would take to prove his comments correct is one example of an illegal immigrant being a rapist. Information is available on the web to justify the claim, and thus, it is validated. He did not lie. What part of his rhetoric is incorrect?

Going by his actual words, he assumes some are good, implying that most aren't. Not only that, he says it's an assumption, not a given. Meanwhile, there were no qualifiers to his preceding statements about them being rapists and criminals. So they starting point is they are criminals and rapists while the "some" that he assumes are good are the exception. It's basically the same as when somebody refers to a particular black person as "one of the good ones."

[deansayso]

Originally Posted by zachtruitt

Migrant farm workers make about $8 with no benefits. I know people who catch chickens in 100 degree heat for $6 an hour.

Not sure where that is going on at but around here they'd make at least $10 an hour. Still not even comparable to slave labor.

[HillbillyCletus]

Originally Posted by RossOK

Going by his actual words, he assumes some are good, implying that most aren't. Not only that, he says it's an assumption, not a given. Meanwhile, there were no qualifiers to his preceding statements about them being rapists and criminals. So they starting point is they are criminals and rapists while the "some" that he assumes are good are the exception. It's basically the same as when somebody refers to a particular black person as "one of the good ones."

I disagree. He did indeed say "some" are good. He did not, however, say "most" are not good or "all" are not good or "the majority" are not good. You simply made an assumption. He did not quantify the ones coming here illegally.

Are there immigrants entering the United States illegally? If so, does that not make them criminals? Are some of these criminals rapists? If so, how are his comments incorrect?