✹The PERENNIAL Shohei Ohtani Thread✹

[moosetequila]

Originally Posted by okumeister

Nice walk and then a stolen base!

3 freaking walks, 2 last night, definitely puts a kink in the HR chase

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[dashcol]

Originally Posted by moosetequila

3 freaking walks, 2 last night, definitely puts a kink in the HR chase

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I really wonder if that will stop when Trout is back and batting behind him. Ohtani is too dangerous on the paths when there is a threat at the plate.

[moosetequila]

Originally Posted by dashcol

I really wonder if that will stop when Trout is back and batting behind him. Ohtani is too dangerous on the paths when there is a threat at the plate.

At least another month... maybe more, before fish is back.

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[mma138]

Originally Posted by anusinha

Pro tip: keep your wax sealed and then you can root for everyone.

i got plenty of optic blasters, megas , and hobby

[hammertime]

I'd rather see walks than SOs...at least he can pump up his SB numbers now.

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

On a side note, I have to ask from your posts in the Vlad thread, do you feel the need to downplay him

You're just doing a selective reading of what I wrote in there. I must've said at least half a dozen times he was the best hitter in baseball. If you want to call me pointing out the indisputable fact that he's been playing in the most run-juicing minor league parks in the baseball(more than Coors), downplaying, then I don't really know what to tell you.

because he has been Ohtani’s only competition in the MVP race

Lol I don't think Guerrero is competition at all. He's as much competition as Gio Urshela at this point. But if he was, why would that matter? Because you think my goal is just to talk down anyone going "against" Ohtani? You must've missed back about a month into the season when Ohtani had his start where he averaging 90 on his FB and I said that if I was trying to trade Ohtani cards like a stock I would sell a bunch based on that start foretelling a possible IL trip and shoddy durability post TJ. For at least a week after that I also made the argument that Ohtani wasn't likely to win the MVP because I thought his pitching durability wouldn't hold up and he wouldn't get enough innings. Nothing I write on this forum is influenced by how big of a stash I have of the player I'm writing about. I have a decent size Mookie stash and I said multiple times in May that his cards would fall in price. I argued over and over that Soto would turn it around despite having not even a thousand dollars worth of cards of his. Anyone refusing to offer negative opinions or only positive as a result of the cards they own is pathetic.

or are you unaware of how amazing it is for a 22 year old to be putting up the kind of numbers he is?

Fully unaware. Now aware!

You seem to know baseball far too well to not grasp how great of a hitter he is and what he can become.

Try actually reading what I write in that thread instead of absorbing those nutcases' reactions to my posts and taking them as your own

[Akphillips86]

Originally Posted by BBases31

You're just doing a selective reading of what I wrote in there. I must've said at least half a dozen times he was the best hitter in baseball. If you want to call me pointing out the indisputable fact that he's been playing in the most run-juicing minor league parks in the baseball(more than Coors), downplaying, then I don't really know what to tell you.



Lol I don't think Guerrero is competition at all. He's as much competition as Gio Urshela at this point. But if he was, why would that matter? Because you think my goal is just to talk down anyone going "against" Ohtani? You must've missed back about a month into the season when Ohtani had his start where he averaging 90 on his FB and I said that if I was trying to trade Ohtani cards like a stock I would sell a bunch based on that start foretelling a possible IL trip and shoddy durability post TJ. For at least a week after that I also made the argument that Ohtani wasn't likely to win the MVP because I thought his pitching durability wouldn't hold up and he wouldn't get enough innings. Nothing I write on this forum is influenced by how big of a stash I have of the player I'm writing about. I have a decent size Mookie stash and I said multiple times in May that his cards would fall in price. I argued over and over that Soto would turn it around despite having not even a thousand dollars worth of cards of his. Anyone refusing to offer negative opinions or only positive as a result of the cards they own is pathetic.



Fully unaware. Now aware!



Try actually reading what I write in that thread instead of absorbing those nutcases' reactions to my posts and taking them as your own

I don’t really track all of your posts across threads to be honest. I literally never get into personal back and forths on here, but I just find your motives suspect, as would any logical reader of your posts in that thread. It doesn’t take in depth analysis.

Vlad destroys ball at home: it’s the park

Vlad destroys ball away: silence

Vlad has 10-15 AB’s without an XBH and a couple K’s: immediately draws attention to it like the world is ending

Vlad goes on a tear: silence

Maybe you just got into it personally with some of the guys on there, I don’t know. I actually want Ohtani AND Guerrero to succeed, along with the entire cast of 18/19 studs because it’s going to make the MLB must see TV again. With basketball waning a bit, I would love nothing more for my favorite sport to start grabbing some more headlines and see some excitement pumped back into the game.

I think the best thing that could possibly happen right now is that Ohtani hits 62 homers. That would be massive for the sport, especially if it was done by a starting pitcher from Japan. Shockwaves would be sent through the sports world and more than the US would take notice.

At the same time, I’m also keeping my eye on this 22 year old in the TC mix who has the potential to be the most complete hitter in baseball since Pujols, Tatis who is making his own MVP run lighting it up with power and speed, and a resurgent Soto who is a hitting machine. Acuna was in the MVP mix before the knee, if he can come back without missing a beat, this would be huge for the MLB.

All I’m getting at is that I actually want ALL of them to succeed. I think there’s way too much positive out of this group to dwell on the negative. It’s absolute insanity what these young guys are doing collectively. We know baseball is an unforgiving game, but the future looks bright.


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[Cardboardalstar]

That got weird...

When do you thing Sho will have a war of 8? Bu the end of next week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, or longer? I like his chances of ending up with 10+ for the season.

[NYRE2PECT]

Getting back to the kid:

[Akphillips86]

Originally Posted by Cardboardalstar

That got weird...

Haha should have left this to carry on perpetually in the Vlad thread.


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[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by cloakroom

am i crazy or is Ohtani really not that expensive considering what he is doing and the insane prices we've seen in this hobby the past year and a half?

You are not crazy.

Arthur

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by cloakroom

am i crazy or is Ohtani really not that expensive considering what he is doing and the insane prices we've seen in this hobby the past year and a half?

The overall market downturn has limited the appreciation of stuff, especially the lower end. If this was last year, his stuff would be astronomical.

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by HarryLime

You are not crazy.

Arthur

Originally Posted by anusinha

The overall market downturn has limited the appreciation of stuff, especially the lower end. If this was last year, his stuff would be astronomical.

His stuff, especially low end is e trembly under valued. Think about what we would be seeing for base rookies if people were not scared because of the “correction, not crash” of the market. Too many YouTube people are scaring people with crash talk. Being someone who has been heavily invested in the Stock market since 21 Corrections are healthy and if you know anything about trend analysis, economic degree here, the lows still are higher then previously.

The thing that is helping and hurting the Ohtani run up is PSA being closed! The pop reports will,increase but not on the low end for awhile. PSA being closed is helping SGC become viable and increasing ROI on his card. People might say but in a PSA THAT CARD WOULD BE X dollars” but PSA not really open for a significant part of the hobby.. example to consider

Brand X RC raw sells for $30
PSA COST $200/300
SGC COST $30 (averaging 2 week turnaround

PSA 10 OF X card sells for $600
SGC 10 of X card sells for $400

You will,hear the people say see PSA sells for $200 more..rewind

@ the lowest grading fees plus card with shipping is $240 PSA AND $40 SGC

$600-$240 equals $360
$400 -$40 equals $360

It is simple math but most just are not really seeing* the big picture.

I love PSA slabs and have only 8 SGC in my collection. I hope to have 6-8 Ohtani 10’s for a card in that raw price range soon.

[soicanbefree]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

His stuff, especially low end is e trembly under valued. Think about what we would be seeing for base rookies if people were not scared because of the “correction, not crash” of the market. Too many YouTube people are scaring people with crash talk. Being someone who has been heavily invested in the Stock market since 21 Corrections are healthy and if you know anything about trend analysis, economic degree here, the lows still are higher then previously.

The thing that is helping and hurting the Ohtani run up is PSA being closed! The pop reports will,increase but not on the low end for awhile. PSA being closed is helping SGC become viable and increasing ROI on his card. People might say but in a PSA THAT CARD WOULD BE X dollars” but PSA not really open for a significant part of the hobby.. example to consider

Brand X RC raw sells for $30
PSA COST $200/300
SGC COST $30 (averaging 2 week turnaround

PSA 10 OF X card sells for $600
SGC 10 of X card sells for $400

You will,hear the people say see PSA sells for $200 more..rewind

@ the lowest grading fees plus card with shipping is $240 PSA AND $40 SGC

$600-$240 equals $360
$400 -$40 equals $360

It is simple math but most just are not really seeing* the big picture.

I love PSA slabs and have only 8 SGC in my collection. I hope to have 6-8 Ohtani 10’s for a card in that raw price range soon.

I've also done the math and I am strongly considering sending a bunch of base Ohtanis to SGC.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by soicanbefree

I've also done the math and I am strongly considering sending a bunch of base Ohtanis to SGC.

I've seen people talk about it everywhere. It's not just Ohtani. I have a feeling SGC will get crushed like last year soon and turn around times will suffer again.

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

I've seen people talk about it everywhere. It's not just Ohtani. I have a feeling SGC will get crushed like last year soon and turn around times will suffer again.

I totally agree and another reason I sent cards in quick. The numbers are real and the pop reports are low for almost all of his RC cards.

SGC has a system in place to slow submissions. $75 move was smart and now people know they will do this to slow submissions, but if the prices keep going up and the ROI stays comparable, then that will be a problem. However I don’t see this with all cards, but with Ohtani it can be clearly seen.

[anusinha]

Ive sent in a lot of stuff to SGC... they seem to grade really tough relative to PSA. At least the old PSA standards.

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by anusinha

Ive sent in a lot of stuff to SGC... they seem to grade really tough relative to PSA. At least the old PSA standards.

My Ohtani submission just popped with SGC and the number were exactly as I thought with one exception


7 SGC 10’s
2 SGC 9.5’s
1 SGC 8.5. I missed something, but was a test on this card because I missed on the same card before with another company. There must be a flaw I have not seen.

[HarryLime]

I understand the desire to sub to SGC for sellers. As someone who is a buyer 99.9% of the time, I'll give my perspective.

I've always been "okay" with purchasing vintage (pre-1970) in an SGC slab. I trusted their ability to grade and there was always a discount. But I also always considered that eventually the card would get crossed to a PSA slab.

When it comes to modern, I'm basically exclusively PSA. Here's why:

Any modern card I bought in an SGC slab I would want to get it in a PSA slab ASAP (all things considered). While the PSA pops may stay low and the SGC pops increase, we may be looking at a more pronounced market premium for cards already in PSA 10 slabs.

Just as importantly, time and grading (or the lackthereof) have a dollar value to me. Let's say I buy an SGC 10 of a 2018 Topps Ohtani SP. No one is sending that in under the current conditions at PSA. Best case scenario, you'll have that card back in a year. Not having to wait a year, package up and submit, and pay for grading (while factoring in that not all SGC 10s will cross to PSA 10) is worth a considerable amount to me, especially when we consider the future increases in markets for players like Ohtani, Vlad, and probably Tatis.

I will, and have been, paying a premium for cards already slabbed PSA 10. I expect that trend to magnify as we draw closer to the end of the season.

Just my own personal $0.02.

Arthur

[BBases31]

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

I don’t really track all of your posts across threads to be honest. I literally never get into personal back and forths on here, but I just find your motives suspect, as would any logical reader of your posts in that thread. It doesn’t take in depth analysis.

No, you're doing a selective reading of what I've said in there. "Motives suspect"

Vlad destroys ball at home: it’s the park

Nah just that moving from a minor league park to a major league is going to reduce his offensive output. If Trevor Story got traded to the Jays and now played his home games in Rogers Centre instead of Coors, no one would question that statement. But it's the exact same situation

Vlad destroys ball away: silence

Actually no. Guerrero's away OPS of .912 ranks 21st in baseball. His home OPS ranks 1st at 1.296. That's a 384 pt difference. The league average home/away difference is 41 pts. But what matters is xwOBA where he's been in between 1-3 the entire season and why I kept saying he's the best hitter in baseball(but sure, keep ignoring that part )

Vlad has 10-15 AB’s without an XBH and a couple K’s: immediately draws attention to it like the world is ending

Really taking hyperbole to another level with that one

Vlad goes on a tear: silence

Guerrero's been on a tear the entire season

Maybe you just got into it personally with some of the guys on there, I don’t know.

You clearly take this forum too seriously. Nothing is personal with anyone on here lol

At the same time, I’m also keeping my eye on this 22 year old in the TC mix who has the potential to be the most complete hitter in baseball since Pujols, Tatis who is making his own MVP run lighting it up with power and speed, and a resurgent Soto who is a hitting machine. Acuna was in the MVP mix before the knee, if he can come back without missing a beat, this would be huge for the MLB.

Cool story!

All I’m getting at is that I actually want ALL of them to succeed. I think there’s way too much positive out of this group to dwell on the negative.

Selective reading, what a thing it is

[Akphillips86]

Originally Posted by BBases31

No, you're doing a selective reading of what I've said in there. "Motives suspect"



Nah just that moving from a minor league park to a major league is going to reduce his offensive output. If Trevor Story got traded to the Jays and now played his home games in Rogers Centre instead of Coors, no one would question that statement. But it's the exact same situation



Actually no. Guerrero's away OPS of .912 ranks 21st in baseball. His home OPS ranks 1st at 1.296. That's a 384 pt difference. The league average home/away difference is 41 pts. But what matters is xwOBA where he's been in between 1-3 the entire season and why I kept saying he's the best hitter in baseball(but sure, keep ignoring that part )



Really taking hyperbole to another level with that one



Guerrero's been on a tear the entire season



You clearly take this forum too seriously. Nothing is personal with anyone on here lol



Cool story!



Selective reading, what a thing it is

I really regret asking you the simple question of why you downplay Vlad so much. Just trying to have a discussion about some talented youngsters and happened to note that you seem to have a particular agenda against one of them. It’s not mysterious. Not exactly interested in getting into a pointless back and forth. Nothing we say changes their performance on the Diamond anyways.

You can call this a win or whatever, but you can add me to the list of people not interested in engaging with you at all. Let’s stop gumming up the Ohtani thread though.


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[imbluestreak23]

SGC is great for Ohtani and Ohtani only (disclaimer, I know nothing about vintage and don't pretend to, so yeah, they could be great for Vintage).

You might be able squeeze in some Lamelos, Lukas, Traes, Zions of the Prizm/Select/Optic variety, as those numbers always work for gems, but your missing out on a huge premium with PSA even if you have to wait 2 years for cheaper fees + getting the cards back.

Even with Ohtani, there is no way I'm sending an SSP, SP or numbered RC to SGC. Those cards belong in PSA holders. SGC seems like a great choice for low end base such as Chrome Updates, Chrome, and any other 80%+ gem rate Ohtani RC.

[Rage]

Is this the Ohtani thread still?

If so, our boy is up to 7.0 WAR now

[JoeAdam]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

SGC is great for Ohtani and Ohtani only (disclaimer, I know nothing about vintage and don't pretend to, so yeah, they could be great for Vintage).

You might be able squeeze in some Lamelos, Lukas, Traes, Zions of the Prizm/Select/Optic variety, as those numbers always work for gems, but your missing out on a huge premium with PSA even if you have to wait 2 years for cheaper fees + getting the cards back.

Even with Ohtani, there is no way I'm sending an SSP, SP or numbered RC to SGC. Those cards belong in PSA holders. SGC seems like a great choice for low end base such as Chrome Updates, Chrome, and any other 80%+ gem rate Ohtani RC.

Why is SGC good for Ohtani? I found a couple low end Ohtani’s that I’m debating grading.

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

SGC is great for Ohtani and Ohtani only (disclaimer, I know nothing about vintage and don't pretend to, so yeah, they could be great for Vintage).

You might be able squeeze in some Lamelos, Lukas, Traes, Zions of the Prizm/Select/Optic variety, as those numbers always work for gems, but your missing out on a huge premium with PSA even if you have to wait 2 years for cheaper fees + getting the cards back.

Even with Ohtani, there is no way I'm sending an SSP, SP or numbered RC to SGC. Those cards belong in PSA holders. SGC seems like a great choice for low end base such as Chrome Updates, Chrome, and any other 80%+ gem rate Ohtani RC.

We think alike! Lol