2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[discostu]

It's not humanly possible to shift faith in a forum, so I'm hardly going to attempt that.

Here is the crux of the election interference issue in the United States...

- -

It is of the opinion that EVERY U.S. intelligence agency and countless international agencies that Russia meddled in our election, like they attempt to do in elections. Is that influence quantifiable? No.

- -

Although there has been ZERO credible agency or study that has shown any sort of coordinated or widespread voter fraud that has ever influenced a national election in the U.S., it is believed by some to be a serious issue that threatens the vote of every American.

- -

Yet somehow, one of these is a hoax and one of these is a credible threat. Neither should be a partisan issue...yet both are extremely partisan.

[TheHeel]

Originally Posted by ssbledsoe

Very well constructed post

However, we'll have to agree to disagree about how humane the Obama admin was. His ramp up of using drones to bomb suspected terrorists is abhorrent, IMO. On the immigration front, his admin was only slightly better than the current admin. While we can agree "better is better", I don't think his admin was precisely humane either as there are plenty of photographic evidence of kids in cages during that tenure. For that, I can't get on board with describing him as humane.

I'm certainly not a fan of Trump/his administration. I believe him to be of average intelligence, but excels in the realm of manipulation. The guy is a loose cannon (which is why so many like him), but it isn't becoming of the office. The one thing I am supportive of that Trump admin has accomplished is getting the US forces out of Afghanistan (something the Obama admin could not get done). Other than that, I don't believe in much of anything he has done. It baffles my mind that "conservatives" like him. There is nothing conservative about him. At all. His support of Red Flag laws is not conservative. His budget is a joke. His tax plan is laughable.

As for the general, I just don't see how Biden takes beats Trump in the world of electoral votes. While the dems might be showing up in force, I do think Biden loses some of the Bernie Bros, and I think it's clear that Trumpers are thrilled to keep showing up. Hence the line I give. I have 125 shares of Trump to win the general on PredictIt.org.

I will get back to you on this but it appears you’re correct but with an asterisk. My bad.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by Timmay

If Hillary had won, we never would have heard about it. Russia does what it always does. China is the real threat.

They never thought she would lose.

[Ray27Ray52]

Originally Posted by chezball

it's a myth made up by the left.

I'm just amazed that the narrative is still spinning around in circles. Are there some idiot voters out there who voted for Trump specifically because of the "lies" told about Hillary? Duh, yeah of course. But I've always thought that the Trump win was the silent majority putting the establishment on notice that fresh blood was needed in the White House.

[Ray27Ray52]

Originally Posted by discostu

It's not humanly possible to shift faith in a forum, so I'm hardly going to attempt that.

Here is the crux of the election interference issue in the United States...

- -

It is of the opinion that EVERY U.S. intelligence agency and countless international agencies that Russia meddled in our election, like they attempt to do in elections. Is that influence quantifiable? No.

- -

Although there has been ZERO credible agency or study that has shown any sort of coordinated or widespread voter fraud that has ever influenced a national election in the U.S., it is believed by some to be a serious issue that threatens the vote of every American.

- -

Yet somehow, one of these is a hoax and one of these is a credible threat. Neither should be a partisan issue...yet both are extremely partisan.

Again, though how did they specifically interfere? Did Russia rig the voting booth? Serious question.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Again, though how did they specifically interfere? Did Russia rig the voting booth? Serious question.

Maybe they were social media influencers. Still trying to figure out what those people do.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by discostu

Here's a really solid column regarding Russian election meddling and how it continues to work on sowing division and promoting wedge issues.

New Evidence Shows How Russia’s Election Interference Has Gotten More Brazen

It's not an attack on the legitimacy of the President. It happened. It's happening. This should not be a partisan issue.

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Again, though how did they specifically interfere? Did Russia rig the voting booth? Serious question.

The article above does a good job explaining it.

The primary goal has been and is to sow division in the country. Why? A divided country is a weaker country. A weaker U.S. is a stronger Russia.

- -

For those (incorrectly) stating that it wouldn't have been reported if Trump hadn't won...it was indeed being reported back when Hillary was supposedly going to win in a landslide. Every outlet was reporting on it.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by discostu

The article above does a good job explaining it.

The primary goal has been and is to sow division in the country. Why? A divided country is a weaker country. A weaker U.S. is a stronger Russia.

- -

For those (incorrectly) stating that it wouldn't have been reported if Trump hadn't won...it was indeed being reported back when Hillary was supposedly going to win in a landslide. Every outlet was reporting on it.

So social media and stupid people are the issue here?

[Ray27Ray52]

Originally Posted by discostu

The article above does a good job explaining it.

The primary goal has been and is to sow division in the country. Why? A divided country is a weaker country. A weaker U.S. is a stronger Russia.

- -

For those (incorrectly) stating that it wouldn't have been reported if Trump hadn't won...it was indeed being reported back when Hillary was supposedly going to win in a landslide. Every outlet was reporting on it.

In fairness this country has been divided since GW's Iraq War. The seeds of hate were planted firmly by the Dem's and they have taken root. Russia didn't have anything to do with that.

I will read the article though. I promise you that.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

In fairness this country has been divided since GW's Iraq War. The seeds of hate were planted firmly by the Dem's and they have taken root. Russia didn't have anything to do with that.

I will read the article though. I promise you that.

In the issue of fairness, I am going to disagree with you on one point here. It was the Republicans, especially led by Cheney, that came out and said you were unpatriotic if you didn't support the Patriot Act (even though it allows the continued spying on Americans today), the Afghan War, and especially the Iraqi War (which was a load of BS on weapons of mass destruction) that fueled some of the original division.

The Dems pretty much sowed Division on everything else Bush tried to do though.

[chezball]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Again, though how did they specifically interfere? Did Russia rig the voting booth? Serious question.

The FBI, the very ones who all got canned, those guys said the russians interfered. ha ha ha ha ha.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Wade Mulroy

Yeah, I disagree with this... The most famous incident was the Shapiro speech at Berkeley a couple years ago they tried to shut down, then subsequently protested and disrupted. Not to mention other conservative speakers on college campuses.

I agree its not a singular organization, but the individuals that use the moniker have a history of attempting to silence right-wing speakers, particularly at colleges campuses.

If a group was truly trying to live by that name/idealogy, then silencing an opposing group's voice is not the appropriate tactic, but rather allowing the freedom to speak and providing your counter-arguments. To date, they neither allow the freedom to speak nor provide any counter-arguments.

Yeah, but their name literally says against facsism..

[rman112]

I found the country to be very divided towards the end of Obama's presidency. Do people really want to say that's because of Russia?

[ntgm37]

Originally Posted by discostu

Here's a really solid column regarding Russian election meddling and how it continues to work on sowing division and promoting wedge issues.

New Evidence Shows How Russia’s Election Interference Has Gotten More Brazen

It's not an attack on the legitimacy of the President. It happened. It's happening. This should not be a partisan issue.

Aaaand I stopped reading after this:

"The reports have not revealed details about what actions Russia is taking or their scope, but my analysis of social media activity exposes some examples"

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by rman112

I found the country to be very divided towards the end of Obama's presidency. Do people really want to say that's because of Russia?

I would say it probably had to do with Obama's constant world apology tour for America being America, his threat to Syria and then not following through, allowing the growth and domination of ISIS in 2 countries, stagnation of wages that pushed the middle class towards the poor, over-regulation of business, portraying the media's lie that white cops only going around shooting unarmed black men daily, destruction of the coal industry, stopping pipelines from being built to make us more energy efficient, his cabinet members constant scandals (Hillary e-mail, Fast & Furious - although started under Bush, Lorreta Lynch - Bill Clinton meeting while his wife is under investigation by her Department, Eric Holder's contempt of Congress, Hillary Foundation/Uranium 1 deal, and Valerie Jared talking points about Benghazi was over a video tape that made some Arabs mad), whispering promises to Russia about be better positioned after winning second term, inability to give our Ukrainian allies real weapons, etc., etc.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by ntgm37

Aaaand I stopped reading after this:

"The reports have not revealed details about what actions Russia is taking or their scope, but my analysis of social media activity exposes some examples"

At first, I read this as "disabled trans".. and was like, "Damn, is that really that big of a demographic?" Lol..

[ntgm37]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

In the issue of fairness, I am going to disagree with you on one point here. It was the Republicans, especially led by Cheney, that came out and said you were unpatriotic if you didn't support the Patriot Act (even though it allows the continued spying on Americans today), the Afghan War, and especially the Iraqi War (which was a load of BS on weapons of mass destruction) that fueled some of the original division.

The Dems pretty much sowed Division on everything else Bush tried to do though.

Heres the thing, I've seen the reconnaissance photos of the mythical wmds. It wasn't a load of bs. It wasn't anywhere near the level that was being reported, but they had them, and then syria had them shortly after. Not sure how much time you spent there, but after 19 months I can say with out a doubt it was important to end the Saddam regime, as can most intelligence officers, high up's etc. Back to the debate

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by discostu

It's not humanly possible to shift faith in a forum, so I'm hardly going to attempt that.

Here is the crux of the election interference issue in the United States...

- -

It is of the opinion that EVERY U.S. intelligence agency and countless international agencies that Russia meddled in our election, like they attempt to do in elections. Is that influence quantifiable? No.

- -

Although there has been ZERO credible agency or study that has shown any sort of coordinated or widespread voter fraud that has ever influenced a national election in the U.S., it is believed by some to be a serious issue that threatens the vote of every American.

- -

Yet somehow, one of these is a hoax and one of these is a credible threat. Neither should be a partisan issue...yet both are extremely partisan.

Your very first sentence kills your entire premise.
If its not humanly possible to shift faith in a forum, why do you believe Russia can shift faith on social media?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[chezball]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

I would say it probably had to do with Obama's constant world apology tour for America being America, his threat to Syria and then not following through, allowing the growth and domination of ISIS in 2 countries, stagnation of wages that pushed the middle class towards the poor, over-regulation of business, portraying the media's lie that white cops only going around shooting unarmed black men daily, destruction of the coal industry, stopping pipelines from being built to make us more energy efficient, his cabinet members constant scandals (Hillary e-mail, Fast & Furious - although started under Bush, Lorreta Lynch - Bill Clinton meeting while his wife is under investigation by her Department, Eric Holder's contempt of Congress, Hillary Foundation/Uranium 1 deal, and Valerie Jared talking points about Benghazi was over a video tape that made some Arabs mad), whispering promises to Russia about be better positioned after winning second term, inability to give our Ukrainian allies real weapons, etc., etc.

Think you mean susan rice not VJ.

[Astros19]

I disagree with a few of you.
The division started way back with Bush/Gore/Florida/Supreme Court.
That's when things started getting nasty.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by rman112

I found the country to be very divided towards the end of Obama's presidency. Do people really want to say that's because of Russia?

Today's marked division began during W's administration and the country was in economic free-fall at the end of his second term for good measure.
The Right was already disturbed when Obama/Biden successfully presided over the recovery and absolutely lost their minds when that same administration slam-dunked Bin Laden into the ocean after their own had failed so miserably in the attempt. They have yet to recover, hence their embrace of Trump, who comprises all of their petty hatreds and insecurities in one grotesque package.

[preakness]

too many young liberal democrats think they're making a difference

making a difference in the world -- nope
making a difference in politics - nope

snowflakes, cupcakes

[majestik101]

Liberals are at least to a certain extent, tolerable. Leftists however, are the real threat.


Proud member of PragerU since 2018.

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by preakness

too many young liberal democrats think they're making a difference

making a difference in the world -- nope
making a difference in politics - nope

snowflakes, cupcakes

Here ya go.



Have as many as you want.
They're sugar-free!

[majestik101]

Originally Posted by jdandns

Here ya go.



Have as many as you want.
They're sugar-free!

Is the icing made with plant-based butter substitute. Also, are they gluten-free