Blowout's AL/NL Challenge

[cardsharking]

I wanted to offer up a suggestion for something I saw in the rules: "To prevent tanking, the first 6 picks will be determined by reverse regular season standings." From my experience, I think reverse standings encourages tanking more than preventing it. I commish a keeper league and we recently switched to awarding the top pick to the the first place outside of the money (in this case, 5th) and go in order of standings until you get to the money placements. Then it goes, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st (12th pick). This way people are fighting for their best possible draft pick until the end. I don't know if anyone is for this, but I'll throw it out there.

[Hollywood42]

That's a cool idea worth considering

Originally Posted by cardsharking

I wanted to offer up a suggestion for something I saw in the rules: "To prevent tanking, the first 6 picks will be determined by reverse regular season standings." From my experience, I think reverse standings encourages tanking more than preventing it. I commish a keeper league and we recently switched to awarding the top pick to the the first place outside of the money (in this case, 5th) and go in order of standings until you get to the money placements. Then it goes, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st (12th pick). This way people are fighting for their best possible draft pick until the end. I don't know if anyone is for this, but I'll throw it out there.

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Jstas, now that I look at your post more your reasoning is pretty ironclad. I kind of agree with you.

The only reason that I can think of that we do things this way is to encourage teams to continue to stay active even if you are "out" of the playoffs. There's an incentive to try to win to at least make the money. But that incentive does become a detriment to the playoff teams that have competed and excelled all year.

Head to head is a SOB. Even the worst teams can get hot at the right time, especially when your roster is littered with bench players who are only playing now so the vets can rest up for the real life playoffs. My NL team has been trash all year due to poor drafting and injuries to the entirety of my pitching staff. But I still have a chance to make the money. That feels kind of icky to me.

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Ngl I didn't realize the "just for fun" piece was even in there. My interpretation and how we've always played it is the consolation bracket counts for your final end of season position and your overall standing, but does not count for draft position. It does kinda seem like there's no reason for those 2 things to be broken apart, so I'm open to talking in the offseason how we should adjust that

to Ray's post...once the playoffs start and you finish 7-12...you are OUT of the playoffs...lol...period...this is my issue...you came in dead last but since you can win some games now where many teams are no longer paying attn (and why should they...they are out of the playoffs and/or lost in the playoffs)...you can still somehow do both of the following:
1. Keep the #1 spot in the draft for NL
2. "finish" in 7th place and win money overall

these are conflicting outcomes that should not be possible

you cant say "Ray gets top pick cuz he finished 12th in NL, and hey Ray..here is your winnings for finishing 1st and 7th overall"....cant have both outcomes

I mean you can--i just think its very incorrect.

If we are going to acknowledge the "playoff wins" and say that you climbed the ladder and finished in 7th place...then that is where you finished!! 7th!

if the final standings after all weeeks are completed is what counts...then that is what counts for everything...Payouts and Draft Position

to Woods post--i agree that it doesnt seem right to have them broken apart...they should go hand in hand....

admittedly i stopped paying attn in the AL when i missed the playoffs...and once i lost in the NL i stopped paying attn...which is not some big "need to keep guys active"...why would I be active? i missed in 1 and lost in the other...there should be no way i can improve my overall position enough to actually get money back (at least i dont think there should be lol)

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

That's a cool idea worth considering

and yea i have done this in my other league that I run...basically not trying to "entice people to stay active" but rather just reward winning...period...ours is a variation where we really reward winning but i like this option as well...

ours is 10tm...top 4 make playoffs...so draft order would be:

1: 5th place finisher...top pick for being team that just missed playoffs
2: league champion....again...winning is rewarded
3: 6th place
4: runner up

and so on...

but i agree that last place should not get first pick...we have seen a few teams in this league or keeper champions this year just not really do anything all year long...1st pick? no thanks...doesnt sit well with me...

[7jacfire]

Originally Posted by cardsharking

I wanted to offer up a suggestion for something I saw in the rules: "To prevent tanking, the first 6 picks will be determined by reverse regular season standings." From my experience, I think reverse standings encourages tanking more than preventing it. I commish a keeper league and we recently switched to awarding the top pick to the the first place outside of the money (in this case, 5th) and go in order of standings until you get to the money placements. Then it goes, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st (12th pick). This way people are fighting for their best possible draft pick until the end. I don't know if anyone is for this, but I'll throw it out there.

I personally like this idea best over the current rule or the other rewarding winning idea suggested.

I agree with those saying that last place in the playoffs should not get the first pick, as that team can just tank and finish in last despite not finishing last in the regular season. Also not too in favor of the league champion having the second pick in the draft, as the draft should allow teams that are genuinely struggling to get some decent top tier (from what is available) talent.

[Ray27Ray52]

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

to Ray's post...once the playoffs start and you finish 7-12...you are OUT of the playoffs...lol...period...this is my issue...you came in dead last but since you can win some games now where many teams are no longer paying attn (and why should they...they are out of the playoffs and/or lost in the playoffs)...you can still somehow do both of the following:
1. Keep the #1 spot in the draft for NL
2. "finish" in 7th place and win money overall

these are conflicting outcomes that should not be possible

you cant say "Ray gets top pick cuz he finished 12th in NL, and hey Ray..here is your winnings for finishing 1st and 7th overall"....cant have both outcomes

I mean you can--i just think its very incorrect.

If we are going to acknowledge the "playoff wins" and say that you climbed the ladder and finished in 7th place...then that is where you finished!! 7th!

if the final standings after all weeeks are completed is what counts...then that is what counts for everything...Payouts and Draft Position

to Woods post--i agree that it doesnt seem right to have them broken apart...they should go hand in hand....

admittedly i stopped paying attn in the AL when i missed the playoffs...and once i lost in the NL i stopped paying attn...which is not some big "need to keep guys active"...why would I be active? i missed in 1 and lost in the other...there should be no way i can improve my overall position enough to actually get money back (at least i dont think there should be lol)

I mean like I said I kind of agree with you. Even though the rules as they are now will benefit me I do believe that has to change.

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

I mean like I said I kind of agree with you. Even though the rules as they are now will benefit me I do believe that has to change.

and again...you are just the current example...not like trying to come for you or anything...i am like you to be honest...even if this was my team i would feel the same once i realized what the possible outcomes could be...

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by 7jacfire

I personally like this idea best over the current rule or the other rewarding winning idea suggested.

I agree with those saying that last place in the playoffs should not get the first pick, as that team can just tank and finish in last despite not finishing last in the regular season. Also not too in favor of the league champion having the second pick in the draft, as the draft should allow teams that are genuinely struggling to get some decent top tier (from what is available) talent.

yea in that league it is a keeper league but currently was not anything tied to the keeper...so no draft pick....so essentially the top 50 or so get kept...not like here where there are studs that cant be kept every year...so yea i wouldnt want that in this league either

[bn2cardz]

I think the two brackets still makes sense, but the draft position needs to be fixed. I brought that up in a previous season and didn't get any support, maybe I just didn't articulate my point correctly when I did.

If we didn't split the bracket, then a 12th place team could get lucky at the end of the season and win all because of a good couple of weeks.

Considering we are combining the overall from two leagues. I think making sure that someone can't finish higher than 7th in a league that they failed to do well in over the season seems like a good set up.

Would the other solution be that 7th - 12th through the regular season would be the same position without playoffs? So if you finish 12th in the regular season, that is your position even after the playoffs?

[bn2cardz]

If we are talking rule changes... I would love to expand Keepers to to at least 3 players. Two just doesn't seem enough.

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I think the two brackets still makes sense, but the draft position needs to be fixed. I brought that up in a previous season and didn't get any support, maybe I just didn't articulate my point correctly when I did.

If we didn't split the bracket, then a 12th place team could get lucky at the end of the season and win all because of a good couple of weeks.

Considering we are combining the overall from two leagues. I think making sure that someone can't finish higher than 7th in a league that they failed to do well in over the season seems like a good set up.

Would the other solution be that 7th - 12th through the regular season would be the same position without playoffs? So if you finish 12th in the regular season, that is your position even after the playoffs?

this is my biggest thing...the league is set up where the top 6 make it to the playoffs...

7th-12th are NOT in the playoffs...secondary bracket or not...you missed the playoffs...random matches vs other non-playoff teams mean nothing! (in my opinion)

if you finished the regular season in 9th place....then 9 pts is the best you can do for that league...

if you finish in dead last on one side...then to me your absolute best total outcome is 13 pts...12 for last place and 1 for possibly winning the other side

now if 13 gets you to the money...then great...if it doesnt then oh well...

i just cant wrap my head around finishing the season in last place then jumping all the way up to 7th cuz you beat the 8th and 10th place teams or whatever...while also still giving said team the #1 pick...haha

i would just sandbag one of my sides every year and try to do this...gimme a #1 pick every year and an outside shot at cashing lol

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

this is my biggest thing...the league is set up where the top 6 make it to the playoffs...



7th-12th are NOT in the playoffs...secondary bracket or not...you missed the playoffs...random matches vs other non-playoff teams mean nothing! (in my opinion)



if you finished the regular season in 9th place....then 9 pts is the best you can do for that league...



if you finish in dead last on one side...then to me your absolute best total outcome is 13 pts...12 for last place and 1 for possibly winning the other side



now if 13 gets you to the money...then great...if it doesnt then oh well...



i just cant wrap my head around finishing the season in last place then jumping all the way up to 7th cuz you beat the 8th and 10th place teams or whatever...while also still giving said team the #1 pick...haha



i would just sandbag one of my sides every year and try to do this...gimme a #1 pick every year and an outside shot at cashing lol

Ok. Yes, I would vote for this. 7th-12th are set by regular season standings.

[SethMurphy]

should i be checking my roster.............

[Hollywood42]

Official 2021 final standings:

AL
1. Ray
2. Card
3. BN2
4. Holly
5. Seth
6. Todder
7. Corner
8. Jac
9. JST
10. Dbacks
11. Peties
12. Eck

NL
1. BN2
2. Card
3. Corner
4. Holly
5. Jac
6. JST
7. Seth
8. Ray
9. Dbacks
10. Eck
11. Todder
12. Peties

Which makes our final overall standings-


1. Card (4, 9,208 total points scored)
2. BN2 (4, 8,631)
3. Holly (8)
4. Ray (9)
5. Corner (10)
6. Seth (12)
7. Jac (13)
8. JST (15)
9. Todder (17)
10. Dbacks (19)
11. Eck (22)
12. Peties (23)

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Official 2021 final standings:

AL
1. Ray
2. Card
3. BN2
4. Holly
5. Seth
6. Todder
7. Corner
8. Jac
9. JST
10. Dbacks
11. Peties
12. Eck

NL
1. BN2
2. Card
3. Corner
4. Holly
5. Jac
6. JST
7. Seth
8. Ray
9. Dbacks
10. Eck
11. Todder
12. Peties

Which makes our final overall standings-


1. Card (4, 9,208 total points scored)
2. BN2 (4, 8,631)
3. Holly (8)
4. Ray (9)
5. Corner (10)
6. Seth (12)
7. Jac (13)
8. JST (15)
9. Todder (17)
10. Dbacks (19)
11. Eck (22)
12. Peties (23)

I started off well in the AL, but the team just couldn't stay consistent. The biggest issue was IL, and losing Means and Luis Robert for the middle of the season.

I am glad the team was able to come back together to end in 3rd place there.

[Hollywood42]

Payouts:

1st ($240) - Cardsharking
2nd ($165) - BN2
3rd ($90) - Hollywood
4th ($65) - Ray
AL best reg season ($20) - Cardsharking
NL best reg season ($20) - BN2

Winnings going out via LeagueSafe shortly. Winners, let me know if any issues, and congrats!

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Payouts:

1st ($240) - Cardsharking
2nd ($165) - BN2
3rd ($90) - Hollywood
4th ($65) - Ray
AL best reg season ($20) - Cardsharking
NL best reg season ($20) - BN2

Winnings going out via LeagueSafe shortly. Winners, let me know if any issues, and congrats!

Thanks for putting in the time running this again.

[Cornerstore]

Congrats to the winners!

My NL keepers are pretty much set, my AL is going to be interesting on how I go about this season

here is my likely keepers/trade block (next years values)

NL
Round 5 - Kevin Gausman
Round 8 - Austin Riley

OTB
Round 6 - Tommy Edman
Round 12 - Brandon Belt
Round 16 - Hector Neris

AL only
For sure keeper and who knows from the list below. Lots of interesting options
Round 15 - Lucas Giolito

OTB
Round 8 - Yasmani Grandal
Round 1 - Vlad Guerrero Jr
Round 6 - Jorge Polanco
Round 3 - Matt Olson
Round 10 - Julio Rodriguez
Round 2 - Frankie Montas
Round 4 - Chris Sale
Round 4 - Sean Manaea
Round 10 - Luis Patino

[cardsharking]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Payouts:

1st ($240) - Cardsharking
2nd ($165) - BN2
3rd ($90) - Hollywood
4th ($65) - Ray
AL best reg season ($20) - Cardsharking
NL best reg season ($20) - BN2

Winnings going out via LeagueSafe shortly. Winners, let me know if any issues, and congrats!

Got it. Thanks for the league. Not too shabby for being projected 8th and 10th. I should have some players available in both leagues that are keepable if you are looking for any. Congrats to the other winners.

[jstasyk1121]

just looked at the draft results to check on some keeper rounds...could anyone have a worse 1st 5 rounds in the AL than this:

Springer---basically hurt off and on all year
Biggio--awful...then hurt for most of year
Voit--hurt most of year..not great once back/part timer
Heaney--god awful all year long...long relief by end of year
Civale--good to start but then hurt for like middle 2+ months of season

yikes!! still almost made playoffs somehow but geez...wish i could have some of those picks back!!

Rd 7 was K.Yates---out for year like 2days after draft...this was one pick before R.Ray went off the board...lol

[jstasyk1121]

AL Only--

I am going to have either Casey Mize in the 8th or Kyle Tucker in the 10th for trade this year...

Because barring any setback I will be keeping Verlander in rd16 to go with one of the above...

[jstasyk1121]

NL Only seems pretty locked in for me...

Trevor Rogers--12th round
Logan Webb--10th round (undrafted)

[bn2cardz]

I really wished there more keepers in this league, it encourages more trading.

[Hollywood42]

Early keepers-

AL
1. Wander Franco (14, pretty much untouchable for years)
2. Not sure yet, have some solid mid round options though- Jose Urquidy in the 5th, Alex Kirilloff in the 9th, Brandon Lowe in the 10th, and I'll be thinking about Joe Ryan or Bailey Ober as FAs in the 10th too

NL
1. Zac Gallen (11, not as good of a year I was hoping for but still an obvious keep)
2. Not sure yet here either. Have some pricey but good options including Kershaw (1), Muncy (2), or Musgrove (3), or I could go for value and go with Yaz (10), maybe Adam Frazier (11), or take another shot with Sixto Sanchez (16)- complete L of a year for him but with his talent in insanely cheap cost I had to keep him and will be tempted to try it again next year

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I really wished there more keepers in this league, it encourages more trading.

i agree...but then at the same time you have some teams or most teams where the talent is just meh...so keeping 3 or 4 guys would be kinda painful I think

I wouldnt mind going up to 3 myself