Topps Project 2020 is the worst product since 1991 Fleer

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by fjdlrw

I got #1 and #2 both delivered this week. I'd assume that you should get an email soon. I received both emails the day before they showed up at my door.

Thanks. No emails. I just keep getting sticker sets in the mail.

I have three different mailings in hand of them now. I hope none are in place of the cards. LOL

[fjdlrw]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

Thanks. No emails. I just keep getting sticker sets in the mail.

I have three different mailings in hand of them now. I hope none are in place of the cards. LOL

No, I received my sticker sets, as well. I think you're safe.

[armenexchange]

Sophias on her iglive designing her next companion card if anyone wants to tune in Instagram.com/Esymai

[Peteybass]

Still waiting on my Thiele Heritage card or even a shipping notice. Look's nice in the photos.

[fjdlrw]

Originally Posted by Peteybass

Still waiting on my Thiele Heritage card or even a shipping notice. Look's nice in the photos.

And I thought mine was late. Hope you get a signed one.

[Bleu Falcon]

Originally Posted by UGLI baby

Btw, Heritage #1 is amazing in hand!

Agreed!

[Silas Barnaby]

Originally Posted by armenexchange

Sophias on her iglive designing her next companion card if anyone wants to tune in Instagram.com/Esymai

How does it look?

[ThoseBackPages]

i didnt see it

[JVB]

I feel that people have a right to be disappointed by the box, as it was hyped as a major selling point of the release. Furthermore, it clearly changed in design from when it was sold to when it was released, and we're realizing the downside of this one particular artist's poor business acumen through his lack of communication and transparency with his customers. There would be nowhere near the blowback if updates had been posted and discussed with customers in a calm manner. Look at Saladeen - his product was delayed, he shared pics of the foil treatment on Money Bear and discussed the card, and people were excited for a card that came in similar packaging. JK5 tried to sell a product claiming in came in superior packaging while neglecting updates or card details, and customers got something different from what they had expected because through the production process the end product diverted from what had been marketed and sold.



Instead, he posted this response to someone (prior to his second, more calculated response) where he comes off as petulant and unprofessional, attempting to divert, shift blame, make himself out to be the victim because he can't handle his growing business, and then talk down to his customers.



You hate to see it.

[BigEd]

Sophia's Brooklyn/LA companion looks pretty good. She did it half-red, half-blue. Not sure I totally dig having the red, but I'll probably grab it. It will look good next to the Jackie.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by Peteybass

Still waiting on my Thiele Heritage card or even a shipping notice. Look's nice in the photos.

Same here. No word or sighting of mine either.

[AirplaneDon]

Originally Posted by JVB

I feel that people have a right to be disappointed by the box, as it was hyped as a major selling point of the release. Furthermore, it....

I think it’s a great response personally and what I was referring to previously.

He used a third party to manufacture the box and from my understanding there were inconsistencies on their end. I think he could have benefited from more transparency on that end certainly. But I’ve also seen pictures where the box and case looks great.

If you were buying it because of a box, it makes sense to inquire about its details rather than rely on a mock up of the final product, though I can understand the disappointment either way.

But really, a bulk of what you are buying here is the artist’s work. If the work of the art isn’t good enough to justify the price, then I would never recommend purchasing in the first place. The artist determined the value of his art and charged it, the rest is fluff. But that’s just my way of looking at it.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by BigEd

Sophia's Brooklyn/LA companion looks pretty good. She did it half-red, half-blue. Not sure I totally dig having the red, but I'll probably grab it. It will look good next to the Jackie.

Did Sophia say when her next companion would be available for purchase?

I watched for a while, but had to leave before finished.

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by AirplaneDon

I think it’s a great response personally and what I was referring to previously.

He used a third party to manufacture the box and from my understanding there were inconsistencies on their end. I think he could have benefited from more transparency on that end certainly. But I’ve also seen pictures where the box and case looks great.

If you were buying it because of a box, it makes sense to inquire about its details rather than rely on a mock up of the final product, though I can understand the disappointment either way.

But really, a bulk of what you are buying here is the artist’s work. If the work of the art isn’t good enough to justify the price, then I would never recommend purchasing in the first place. The artist determined the value of his art and charged it, the rest is fluff. But that’s just my way of looking at it.

Yep.

JK5 is NOT a card manufacturer OR a box manufacturer. He's an artist with a newfound success that ought to be given a break.

He delivered a card better than advertised. If you want to buy a nice, high-end box, there are other outlets for those.

[Boredlawyer]

Originally Posted by JVB

I feel that people have a right to be disappointed by the box, as it was hyped as a major selling point of the release. Furthermore, it clearly changed in design from when it was sold to when it was released, and we're realizing the downside of this one particular artist's poor business acumen through his lack of communication and transparency with his customers. There would be nowhere near the blowback if updates had been posted and discussed with customers in a calm manner. Look at Saladeen - his product was delayed, he shared pics of the foil treatment on Money Bear and discussed the card, and people were excited for a card that came in similar packaging. JK5 tried to sell a product claiming in came in superior packaging while neglecting updates or card details, and customers got something different from what they had expected because through the production process the end product diverted from what had been marketed and sold.

Attachment 489531

Instead, he posted this response to someone (prior to his second, more calculated response) where he comes off as petulant and unprofessional, attempting to divert, shift blame, make himself out to be the victim because he can't handle his growing business, and then talk down to his customers.

Attachment 489532

You hate to see it.

I get a vibe that criticizing artists is considered taboo, as if their business operates on a moral plane that exists on a higher level than non-artists

Criticizing Topps for off-centered cards and damaged corners--perfectly acceptable.

Criticizing artists for selling products with poor quality--you're criticizing their soul and psyche.

[dOubleO]

Originally Posted by JVB

Attachment 489532

I think he is missing the point that when you "pre-sell" items, the consumer will highly rely on the "sample" product images to justify the purchase and price of the item.

So yes, the consumer can complain and it's not childish to complain as the marketed product didn't meet the delivered product.

JK5 has one of the interesting art in P2020 but I'm very disappointed on how he handled his reply.

Some artists in P2020 can learn from Thiele's School of Branding

[JVB]

Originally Posted by AirplaneDon

I think it’s a great response personally and what I was referring to previously.

He used a third party to manufacture the box and from my understanding there were inconsistencies on their end. I think he could have benefited from more transparency on that end certainly. But I’ve also seen pictures where the box and case looks great.

If you were buying it because of a box, it makes sense to inquire about its details rather than rely on a mock up of the final product, though I can understand the disappointment either way.

But really, a bulk of what you are buying here is the artist’s work. If the work of the art isn’t good enough to justify the price, then I would never recommend purchasing in the first place. The artist determined the value of his art and charged it, the rest is fluff. But that’s just my way of looking at it.

I don't disagree with you, and I too have seen a couple of pictures where the card fit snugly in the tray... although knowing that he used the same manufacturer as other artists I find it interesting that we didn't see these same packaging inconsistencies reported with other products as much, if at all. Is it the manufacturers fault, or did the other artists invest in higher quality materials? But that's a different conversation for another time.

As far as those who may have purchased because of the box, is it the responsibility of the customer to reach out to the business for post mock-up updates, or is it the responsibility of the business to communicate changes to the customer? I'd argue the latter although I can be biased due to an affinity for 3am kickstarter binges.

I don't have a dog in this fight, and in the long run it's just one more dip in this sinusoidal experience that we all call Project 2020.

[ThoseBackPages]

im the man in the box

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by JVB

As far as those who may have purchased because of the box, is it the responsibility of the customer to reach out to the business for post mock-up updates, or is it the responsibility of the business to communicate changes to the customer? I'd argue the latter although I can be biased due to an affinity for 3am kickstarter binges.

Agreed 100%. It's ridiculous and incredibly inefficient to expect customers to ask if the product matches the mock-ups. Communication is key and if he was too busy or couldn't have bothered to shotgun out one update to everyone who bought them, who really thinks a bunch of people sending messages individually would've gotten responses? It's not the end of the world but I don't see how you couldn't see that people would be disappointed...just look at how much discussion cases, boxes, and even %$@*ing bubble wrap have received.

Underpromise, overdeliver...it's a simple concept, but simple and easy are not the same thing I guess.

[redauto5]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

Man, I love the JK5 Jeter. It's one of my favorite cards of the set so far. The bow is clever and looks great, among many other fantastic elements of the card that play into JK5's style.



It's absolutely amazing to me how we all can have such differing tastes and opinions. We can completely agree on some things, and equally disagree on others.



Fascinating.

Agreed on the JK5 Jeter, its between that and the Siff as my favorites thus far. If Saladeen didn't have that border on the card itd be in that grouping as well, but I just can't handle that border. It looks like a printing mistake, and it and the Ichiro very well may have been such. Not what Saladeen intended. Anyone ever get anything firm on that? Topps changed the Koufax border after BigEd mentioned it. We may never know...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[gmoney328]

Originally Posted by dOubleO

I think he is missing the point that when you "pre-sell" items, the consumer will highly rely on the "sample" product images to justify the purchase and price of the item.

So yes, the consumer can complain and it's not childish to complain as the marketed product didn't meet the delivered product.

JK5 has one of the interesting art in P2020 but I'm very disappointed on how he handled his reply.

Some artists in P2020 can learn from Thiele's School of Branding

This....

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by hammertime

Agreed 100%. It's ridiculous and incredibly inefficient to expect customers to ask if the product matches the mock-ups. Communication is key and if he was too busy or couldn't have bothered to shotgun out one update to everyone who bought them, who really thinks a bunch of people sending messages individually would've gotten responses? It's not the end of the world but I don't see how you couldn't see that people would be disappointed...just look at how much discussion cases, boxes, and even %$@*ing bubble wrap have received.

Underpromise, overdeliver...it's a simple concept, but simple and easy are not the same thing I guess.

Pick any product, any industry. The final product never matches the prototype and is almost always worse.

[ThoseBackPages]

#BoxGatePartDeux

[buzzardsroost]

Just bought me a Jamieson and efdot blob Ruth. Since Ive got a complete run of both I thought it would fit in quite nicely

[mwheeler27]

Originally Posted by buzzardsroost

Just bought me a Jamieson and efdot blob Ruth. Since Ive got a complete run of both I thought it would fit in quite nicely

Welcome to the club!