✹The PERENNIAL Shohei Ohtani Thread✹

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by tblood

Very happy to get this one in-hand.


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Nice! Is there a consensus on whether purple is rarer and/or more desirable than red?

[moosetequila]

Originally Posted by okumeister

When Bowman's Best becomes High End.



Nice grade! Nice card!

Thanks! I'm pretty happy... probably sell some lower end tens to help pay for it

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[moosetequila]

Originally Posted by tblood

Very happy to get this one in-hand.


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Nice... its like he doesn't age...

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[okumeister]

Originally Posted by h00perstar34

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WsrL2hGGado&t=187s

I remember this guy had the card on eBay and offered it to me for 3300 I was debating and minutes later it’s sold

What do you guys think this card is worth now? Watch the video


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1/1s are so difficult to guess, but I'd say $25k maybe?
It still holds some significance as the "first Topps issued Ohtani card", but the hype on the card seemed to have died down once Bowman and other RC cards hit the market.

Not sure how others view the card, but it's not one of the most desirable Ohtani card for me, though I own a BGS 9.5 of it as well.

[tblood]

Originally Posted by hammertime

Nice! Is there a consensus on whether purple is rarer and/or more desirable than red?

Thanks! I believe the red version is considered his true RC since it was pack pulled. No clue on the print runs of either but there aren’t exactly boatloads of them hitting eBay.

I personally think the purple looks better.


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[hammertime]

Originally Posted by okumeister

Not sure how others view the card, but it's not one of the most desirable Ohtani card for me, though I own a BGS 9.5 of it as well.

It's near the top of my want list but my guess is it's pretty niche overall...

[rman112]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

It’s Ohtani. Unanimous. No Trout, .500 ball. That’s all Ohtani. He’s the best starting pitcher they’ve had in 5+ years, while being the team’s most important hitter this season. Anybody voting Vlad is crazy.

Not necessarily. They've played similar ball in the past without Trout.

[redauto5]

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

Vlad with a Triple Crown and Ohtani at 49 HRS and his current AVG and pitching stats?I’ll take Vlad all day. I may be crazy but that’s my vote. I’ll take complete domination in one category vs extremely good in two. Think about it this way, if a player wins a triple crown and Ohtani wins MVP with the hypothetical numbers mentioned, you are basically saying it’s virtually impossible for anyone to win MVP from this point forward unless Shohei experiences a significant decrease in performance.


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I think as long as Shohei performs the way he has performed in the first half, the MVP should by rights be his. Every year. Slam dunk. What he is doing is insane, everyone agrees. As vaunted as a Triple Crown is in baseball lore, people have done it before and will do it again. No one has done what Shohei has done over the first half of 2021 and my guess is no one but Shohei will be able to do it again.

So yes, if Shohei does this for 5 years straight my vote is he wins 5 straight MVPs absolutely.

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[dfd]

Originally Posted by h00perstar34

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WsrL2hGGado&t=187s

I remember this guy had the card on eBay and offered it to me for 3300 I was debating and minutes later it’s sold

What do you guys think this card is worth now? Watch the video


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I was the 3rd owner of that card. Paid $6000 for it. Submitted it to Beckett for grading. Graded a 9.5. Ended up selling it for a nice profit but always wondered also, where it is now and it's worth.

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by rman112

Not necessarily. They've played similar ball in the past without Trout.

Why take things out of context. Khal is simply stating that Ohtani is a huge contributor to the current .500 season and the record would be a lot worse without him.

[wharfrat7624]

This is funny..

https://twitter.com/benverlander/sta...608547348?s=21


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[rman112]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

Why take things out of context. Khal is simply stating that Ohtani is a huge contributor to the current .500 season and the record would be a lot worse without him.

What's out of context? The post implied that they're basically only where they're at post-Trout because of Ohtani, yes?

[Akphillips86]

Originally Posted by redauto5

I think as long as Shohei performs the way he has performed in the first half, the MVP should by rights be his. Every year. Slam dunk. What he is doing is insane, everyone agrees. As vaunted as a Triple Crown is in baseball lore, people have done it before and will do it again. No one has done what Shohei has done over the first half of 2021 and my guess is no one but Shohei will be able to do it again.

So yes, if Shohei does this for 5 years straight my vote is he wins 5 straight MVPs absolutely.

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I don’t disagree with what you just said actually. But in the above mentioned hypothetical situation, if he ends with 49 HRs that’s not a mirror of his first half. That would be a great season, but definitely not dominant in comparison to a Triple Crown winner who would probably be sporting an average of at least .330 with mid 50’s HRs. His pitching stats would also be extremely good but not completely dominant.

To be honest, I would be stoked with either winning the MVP, I just want them to win it because they dominated the league.


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[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by wharfrat7624

Wow - congrats!

Thank you.

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by rman112

What's out of context? The post implied that they're basically only where they're at post-Trout because of Ohtani, yes?

You said that angels have been .500 without Trout before. That's not what Khal was arguing. This season's roster cannot be compared to past season rosters - the pitching is historically bad.

On the contrary, if you're saying that Ohtani has not really contributed and the angels would be .500 with or without him, you're just blind.

[Spunky245]

Yes, but at this point, how much of the “lock-to-win MVP” is already priced in? Is this just another example of “buy the hype, sell the news”? Like the buildup to Elon being on SNL, and then once it actually happened, prices actually tanked.

I’m not being bearish, just trying to examine all possibilities haha

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

You said that angels have been .500 without Trout before. That's not what Khal was arguing. This season's roster cannot be compared to past season rosters - the pitching is historically bad.

On the contrary, if you're saying that Ohtani has not really contributed and the angels would be .500 with or without him, you're just blind.

Because the same thing happened with Trout - everyone assumes when he gets hurt, the Angels turn into crap. And that just hasn't been true. And that's even in the past years, without Ohtani being the player he's been this year, with Pujols in the lineup weighing them down, etc.

What you end up doing is giving weight to a player in an award race based on something that is a complete assumption. It's a guess. You've got Walsh as an All-Star. Upton was playing really well after hitting leadoff, and before getting hurt. Fletcher has played well (.367 post-Trout.. yes, .367).

FWIW, a quick look says they are 5-3 with him on the mound post-Trout (Ohtani himself has a 3-1 record), and 10-8 when he homers in that same time period.

[redauto5]

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

I don’t disagree with what you just said actually. But in the above mentioned hypothetical situation, if he ends with 49 HRs that’s not a mirror of his first half. That would be a great season, but definitely not dominant in comparison to a Triple Crown winner who would probably be sporting an average of at least .330 with mid 50’s HRs. His pitching stats would also be extremely good but not completely dominant.

To be honest, I would be stoked with either winning the MVP, I just want them to win it because they dominated the league.


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Yep, if Ohtani regresses significantly and Vladdy wins a Triple Crown I can see MVP being more up for grabs for sure, so we seem to be on the same page here. It'll be super fun to see how this plays out. I'll be rooting for Shohei but Vladdy is good for the hobby as well.

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[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by rman112

Because the same thing happened with Trout - everyone assumes when he gets hurt, the Angels turn into crap. And that just hasn't been true. And that's even in the past years, without Ohtani being the player he's been this year, with Pujols in the lineup weighing them down, etc.

What you end up doing is giving weight to a player in an award race based on something that is a complete assumption. It's a guess. You've got Walsh as an All-Star. Upton was playing really well after hitting leadoff, and before getting hurt. Fletcher has played well (.367 post-Trout.. yes, .367).

FWIW, a quick look says they are 5-3 with him on the mound post-Trout (Ohtani himself has a 3-1 record), and 10-8 when he homers in that same time period.

On the flipside of that coin, you are making the same assumption that the rosters surrounding Trout/Ohtani are equal year over year. That simply is not true.

Not going to further argue the results of a parallel universe, but you're grossly simplifying something that isn't simple.

Edit: and I'm not really arguing anything about vlad versus Ohtani. My comments are strictly at your dismissal of Ohtani having any positive impact to the Angel's performance or record.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

On the flipside of that coin, you are making the same assumption that the rosters surrounding Trout/Ohtani are equal year over year. That simply is not true.

Not going to further argue the results of a parallel universe, but you're grossly simplifying something that isn't simple.

Right. I would say that the Angels roster right now is better than it was in years past.

At the end of the day, they're still assumptions. Giving weight to something that never happened doesn't make sense. Even if it seems to be logical, things don't always play out that way - and Trout is a great example of that.

Just go off what the player actually does. Trying to add value with a maybe, would-be, hypothetical is silly. As assumption only plays out hypotehtically in the exact way you want it to. There's nothing to balance it against.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

On the flipside of that coin, you are making the same assumption that the rosters surrounding Trout/Ohtani are equal year over year. That simply is not true.

Not going to further argue the results of a parallel universe, but you're grossly simplifying something that isn't simple.

Edit: and I'm not really arguing anything about vlad versus Ohtani. My comments are strictly at your dismissal of Ohtani having any positive impact to the Angel's performance or record.

Stop making things up. And you have the audacity to say I'm taking things out of context. Ridiculous.

[Tim]

Anyone attempting to argue a 49 hr season by a starting pitcher who has a 3.75 era is going to lose the mvp to a triple crown winner is either very confused or a contrarion. Just like when ohtani gets all but one 1st place vote. The guy voting vlad would be a contrarion.

[Trueblue]

Originally Posted by rman112

Stop making things up. And you have the audacity to say I'm taking things out of context. Ridiculous.

Originally Posted by rman112

Not necessarily. They've played similar ball in the past without Trout.

Read what you wrote. You directly imply that the angels have been a .500 team without trout in the past and Ohtani is not necessarily the reason.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Trueblue

Read what you wrote. You directly imply that the angels have been a .500 team without trout in the past and Ohtani is not necessarily the reason.

I have. The post I replied to, and the highlighted part, challenged that Ohtani was essentially the sole reason the Angels are currently above .500

Let me ask you this. How can that be proven to be true? How can it be proven that if, say, Ohtani had gotten hurt the same day as Trout, that they'd be 5 games under (or whatever) ?

[rman112]

Sorry, they're actually right at .500 now.