2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mike1498

To be fair, that’s as dramatic as the right has been with mail in bailouts. I’m sure some people will take advantage of the system but let’s not act like it’s the first time.

Not at all.

I think the right recognizes that vote by mail has risks.

I mean, there's a reason why more than 1% of all mail in votes in all elections are not counted. People fill in the wrong circle, they forget to sign, they don't follow the directions on the ballot etc. People as a whole, are dumb. And if Dems want to all do this and mail them in; then expect tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of votes to just be trashed.

THEN, add in the idea that some states are doing new things like ranked choice voting where you don't just vote once, but 8 times for the President and it's going to be chaos. Factor in the people who forget to mail in their ballots and the post office who will assuredly not deliver 100% of them where they need to go...

There are just too many ways it goes sideways. None of which are "Trump is going to steal my vote!"

Or you show up, vote, and your vote in then counted right there.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Not at all.

I think the right recognizes that vote by mail has risks.

I mean, there's a reason why more than 1% of all mail in votes in all elections are not counted. People fill in the wrong circle, they forget to sign, they don't follow the directions on the ballot etc. People as a whole, are dumb. And if Dems want to all do this and mail them in; then expect tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of votes to just be trashed.

THEN, add in the idea that some states are doing new things like ranked choice voting where you don't just vote once, but 8 times for the President and it's going to be chaos. Factor in the people who forget to mail in their ballots and the post office who will assuredly not deliver 100% of them where they need to go...

There are just too many ways it goes sideways. None of which are "Trump is going to steal my vote!"

Or you show up, vote, and your vote in then counted right there.

I’ll quote this. I have a feeling you’re being overdramatic but we’ll find out.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Personally I think the false information the media gives is way more dangerous than any type of “voting” system. But instead turn on your fox tv station and let them tell you how dangerous the mail in bailouts are

They're not wrong you know. The idea was that we needed mail in voting because of COVID. That's a farce. People should be voting in person unless they can't because A LOT of votes will absolutely, 100%, not count.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mike1498

I’ll quote this. I have a feeling you’re being overdramatic but we’ll find out.

In what capacity?

Here. They do a pretty good job of highlighting the risks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...t-get-counted/

[btmcrushers]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

He should've not run a campaign built on dividing the country. It was a doomed presidency from day 1 and he's done nothing to rectify his poor standing with anyone outside of his base.

And calling a voter base "deplorables" does not divide the country?

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Ray27Ray52

Democrats, as well as most Republicans, care about one thing and only one thing. Votes. They both will say whatever they need to say to get elected.

Why have voters not been told this simple truth? Because keeping them stupid keeps those in power, in power. And the cycle repeats itself. Second verse, same as the first.

I understand the cynicism, but it’s not as though nothing has ever been politically accomplished in the country. Legislation has been passed.

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

Ok. I get your answer, but at that level how is that bringing the nation together. A lot of us have friends that are of a different view that doesn't mean we are coming together on anything

Find common ground and figure out what people with differing political wants are seeking from government. If I’ve made only two real assertions in this thread, they’re apolitical.

1) This country is dealing with significant low-level mental illness (Depression/Anxiety/Substance abuse etc)

2) People don’t consider others’ perspectives

What do you think?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mike1498

I’ll quote this. I have a feeling you’re being overdramatic but we’ll find out.

Here. The Florida Primary had 18,000 votes by mail not count in their 2020 Primary.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health...rence-primary/

Now quadruple that number to account for the people that will vote by mail in the Presidential election (post-covid), then spread it across all 50 states. This is my favorite part of the article ...

"The numbers of uncounted mail ballots made up only about 1.3 percent of the total mail ballots cast, according to the Healthy Elections project analysis. The organization found that younger and first-time voters, as well as Black and Hispanic voters, were more likely to have mail ballots that didn’t end up getting counted."

GL Dems.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

In what capacity?

Here. They do a pretty good job of highlighting the risks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...t-get-counted/

So are you being under dramatic about Covid? You can’t play it both ways. You cant say we shouldn’t be worried about Covid and then freak out about the election. Unless you believe there’s no problem with the amount of people dying from Covid but you fear the election being rigged

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by btmcrushers

And calling a voter base "deplorables" does not divide the country?

Is this a Hillary reference? Are you attempting to bait me into defending her?
Good luck with that.

Trump being a terrible national representative doesn’t cancel out issues with opposing party, nor does it excuse his own poor leadership.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mike1498

So are you being under dramatic about Covid? You can’t play it both ways. You cant say we shouldn’t be worried about Covid and then freak out about the election. Unless you believe there’s no problem with the amount of people dying from Covid but you fear the election being rigged

I'm not freaking out about either. I'm thrilled that Dems are voting by mail and Republicans will largely vote in person.

I find it hilarious that Dems are now just waking up to the idea that mail in voting is not a good idea. I've said so on this thread for months and months and even conveyed via PM to many members "Wait until they realize what happens to their votes!" They were chaining themselves to mailboxes, saying Trump is trying to steal the election via the USPS!

Did you read the Florida article? 1.3% in this kind of election makes all the difference in the world.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mike1498

So are you being under dramatic about Covid? You can’t play it both ways. You cant say we shouldn’t be worried about Covid and then freak out about the election. Unless you believe there’s no problem with the amount of people dying from Covid but you fear the election being rigged

"The youngest voters were most likely during the March presidential preference primary to have their ballots not counted, the analysis found, with 3.56 percent of mail ballots submitted by people aged 18 to 29 being rejected — nearly three times the overall rejection rate.

First-time voters had 2.54 percent of their mail ballots rejected, while 2.32 percent of black voters who voted by mail had their ballots go uncounted. Democrats were more likely to have their mail ballots uncounted than Republicans."

[btmcrushers]

Originally Posted by GOWIFB

Could that be because we have a president that is openly saying the entire election is rigged and that rigging the election is the only way he can lose? A president who is threatening to overturn the election results by force? A president who won't commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he does lose? Noooooooo I am sure that couldn't be the reason.....

And did the democrats not spend 3+ years refuting the outcome of the 2016 election? Did the democrats not come out in the past few months stating that Biden should not accept the outcome of the election if he were to loose election night? Did Biden not hire a team of lawyers to contest the potential outcome of the election?

Why is one a spade and the other a heart? Answer - there not, they are both spades.

[btmcrushers]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Personally I think the false information the media gives is way more dangerous than any type of “voting” system. But instead turn on your fox tv station and let them tell you how dangerous the mail in bailouts are

As you stated in your previous post - to be fair - if you do enough research you can find enough sources of left leaning media (NYT, NY Post etc) that did research and analysis of potential fraud with mail in voting back in 2012. It's not solely a fox/right leaning thing.

As with everything in Politics its a matter of who does that narrative work better for / against.

[btmcrushers]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Is this a Hillary reference? Are you attempting to bait me into defending her?
Good luck with that.

Trump being a terrible national representative doesn’t cancel out issues with opposing party, nor does it excuse his own poor leadership.

Yes it is, and no I'm not. Simply stating you cannot just call out one person/party for an action as if its exclusively only them, when it is others as well.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I'm not freaking out about either. I'm thrilled that Dems are voting by mail and Republicans will largely vote in person.

I find it hilarious that Dems are now just waking up to the idea that mail in voting is not a good idea. I've said so on this thread for months and months and even conveyed via PM to many members "Wait until they realize what happens to their votes!" They were chaining themselves to mailboxes, saying Trump is trying to steal the election via the USPS!

Did you read the Florida article? 1.3% in this kind of election makes all the difference in the world.

I did not read the article. It doesn’t really matter to me because I’ll wait until after the election to see what happens. I don’t think it will be as obnoxious as fox claims but we’ll see. I also don’t think Covid is as obnoxious as CNN makes it.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mike1498

I did not read the article. It doesn’t really matter to me because I’ll wait until after the election to see what happens. I don’t think it will be as obnoxious as fox claims but we’ll see. I also don’t think Covid is as obnoxious as CNN makes it.

Well, if around 75 million Americans vote by mail in this election; expect a cool million of those votes not to count.

Spread that out across the states; it may have a profound impact on the results of a close election. Best case scenario, someone gets blown out so it doesn't matter.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by btmcrushers

As you stated in your previous post - to be fair - if you do enough research you can find enough sources of left leaning media (NYT, NY Post etc) that did research and analysis of potential fraud with mail in voting back in 2012. It's not solely a fox/right leaning thing.

As with everything in Politics its a matter of who does that narrative work better for / against.

Isn’t this the same philosophy as the right has with Covid though? If you don’t want to get Covid stay at home but why should I? Well why does it matter if I send in my vote because I’m aware of the risk I’m taking? If they aren’t counting votes, then the right shouldn’t care since none of them plan to stay in their basement, that’s Biden’s job.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Isn’t this the same philosophy as the right has with Covid though? If you don’t want to get Covid stay at home but why should I? Well why does it matter if I send in my vote because I’m aware of the risk I’m taking? If they aren’t counting votes, then the right shouldn’t care since none of them plan to stay in their basement, that’s Biden’s job.

You're conflating issues. What I'm talking about is simply the risk of voting by mail assuming a completely straight election. That's it's own risk.

But there's another risk of mailing out ballots to hundreds of millions of Americans. For example, I live here in CT and bought the house in 2012. I received a request for absentee ballot + my wife's + the requests for the two former owners of the house. Request for absentee's are one thing ... but ...

There are states, like Nevada, who will be mailing out actual ballots to everyone. Some people will get many many more than what they expect and you worry about what happens. Nobody really knows because this is the first time ever a state is going to do this. That, is a separate risk.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by btmcrushers

Yes it is, and no I'm not. Simply stating you cannot just call out one person/party for an action as if its exclusively only them, when it is others as well.

Yes, I readily acknowledge that he is not the exclusively responsible person for the country's issues. He is definitely not part of the resolution either.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Well, if around 75 million Americans vote by mail in this election; expect a cool million of those votes not to count.

Spread that out across the states; it may have a profound impact on the results of a close election. Best case scenario, someone gets blown out so it doesn't matter.

If I show you a fair number of covid deaths, will that change if you're gonna go out tomorrow? We can say big numbers all we want, it doesn't mean we are physically going to apply it to our lives. You're probably younger so you're less likely to die from Covid. That doesn't change the fact that you are increasing your chance of potentially being sick from it at a greater chance than last year at this time.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

You're conflating issues. What I'm talking about is simply the risk of voting by mail assuming a completely straight election. That's it's own risk.

But there's another risk of mailing out ballots to hundreds of millions of Americans. For example, I live here in CT and bought the house in 2012. I received a request for absentee ballot + my wife's + the requests for the two former owners of the house. Request for absentee's are one thing ... but ...

There are states, like Nevada, who will be mailing out actual ballots to everyone. Some people will get many many more than what they expect and you worry about what happens. Nobody really knows because this is the first time ever a state is going to do this. That, is a separate risk.

Sure there's indirect risk. I go to a party and catch covid, I give it to my mom. How is that not indirect risk? My mom didn't ask for covid.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mike1498

Sure there's indirect risk. I go to a party and catch covid, I give it to my mom. How is that not indirect risk? My mom didn't ask for covid.

Why do you keep talking about COVID? I'm only speaking about voting and I don't quite understand why you keep bringing it up.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Why do you keep talking about COVID? I'm only speaking about voting and I don't quite understand why you keep bringing it up.

Nice deflection. You make a huge deal about the mail in election being rigged. You keep forgetting it's mail in because of the pandemic. But when we talk about the numbers regarding the pandemic, all the sudden those big numbers don't matter.

That being said, when I say big numbers, I have a feeling both are inflated. That being said, I just find it interesting what we find a bigger issue. The pandemic or if the election is going to be rigged

[trixstar]

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Yes, I readily acknowledge that he is not the exclusively responsible person for the country's issues. He is definitely not part of the resolution either.

What is the resolution?