Ebay suspends PWCC for shill bidding

[HalfNipponese]

Just saw a report that the issue with PWCC is due to Magic The Gathering shill bidding. Does anyone know if that’s true?

[boston12]

Originally Posted by mrchipz

Would be a lot better then ebay. They raise their fees constantly. They screw sellers over constantly. Let buyers get away with scams daily. You cant even call them anymore they have to call you and good luck getting a person that can speak good english and even better yet good luck getting a person that is in the USA and even better yet good luck getting a person that knows anything about sports cards and the market.

Oh I know. That’s why I sell outside of ebay for larger value cards.

[wheeler281]

Originally Posted by ScooterMcRibs

Like many of the members of this community, I was shocked to find that Ebay banned PWCC today, a day which will live in hobby infamy. PWCC has been a pillar of the hobby for so many years, providing value to clients with their innovative products like Vault. I remember when Vault launched years ago there were people on this forum claiming that it was a scam and that they would never use it. Today Vault is trusted by tens of thousands of PWCC customers to hold hundreds of millions of dollars worth of collectables. PWCC did something that the naysayers said was impossible, and in doing so they provided great value to their customers. Kudos for PWCC for their innovation and ingenuity.

Pay close attention to the Ebay email - every word in it was written by the Ebay legal department, no doubt the top harlots that money can buy.

"Recently, it was determined that individuals associated with a trading card seller, PWCC, have engaged in “shill bidding,”"

"individuals associated with a trading card seller" means folks consigning their cards to PWCC, not employees of PWCC, or Ebay would have said so upfront. "Shill bidding" is absolutely rampant on Ebay from all sellers, and Ebay hardly lifts a finger to stop it. PWCC has its own internal checks to stop shilling, but stopping it completely is impossible with Ebay's business model. I would trust a PWCC auction to not be shilled far more than an auction from an average Joe. Yes, there have been a few examples of PWCC auctions being shilled, but when you run tens of thousands of auctions, there are going to be a few bad apple consignors. It's inevitable.

Today's actions by Ebay have nothing to do with protecting the community or stopping shilling. They are about an illegal monopoly shutting out an innovator that threatens their entrenched business model which is starting to show cracks. Ebay believes that 100% of commissions should belong to them alone, and they raise fees year after year. Ebay decided long ago to stop being a collectable auction site and transition to a retail site for high-margin junk merchandise. The hobby has had enough with it, and that's why PWCC and others have started to have success. Nobody is going to pay 12% to sell their collectables in the future, that is why Ebay has no future.

It's ironic that today's actions by Ebay will only hasten their demise. PWCC will now move full steam ahead to launching their own platform. I look forward to working with PWCC in the future. They have proven themselves to be a great platform with a superior customer experience. So let's have a toast today to the future of PWCC, the hobby, and the impending death of Ebay as a collectable auction platform.

Sound like a salt of the earth type guy.
Nothing like shilling for scammers. Oh wait

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by mrchipz

Im going for Titanium man what you talking about??

Its sad to see so many have so much hate for PWCC that they are blinded by how bad ebay is.

Yes but why should one trust a guy who is under FBI investigation for fraud and now has been booted from ebay for shill bidding? AND, who will be more motivated than ever to show strong prices.

[doctor4329]

Originally Posted by rj.cataldo

Agree. Everyone saying - won’t it be great if PWCC stands up an alternative marketplace and cuts fees in half? Yea of course, but how are they going to police the marketplace? Are they going to develop a the infrastructure for customer support? Are they going create tools for sellers to easily list themselves? Are they going to have processes for efficiently receiving and sending payments at the scale needed?

There’s all sorts of challenges and considerations that make that cut of fees go up just to keep the light on. Not to mention, anyone who doesn’t think PWCC would do the same thing eBay did - that is steadily increase their cut as they obtain market dominance is kidding themselves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I highly doubt any of the above considering there's not even a working customer support telephone line, which they took down last year and have skimpy middlemen now working as customer support......total rubbish...

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by wheeler281

Sound like a salt of the earth type guy.
Nothing like shilling for scammers. Oh wait

Nothing like having card doctors on staff, either.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Uncanny. You could have 15 bids in the first 5 minutes. I used to joke, well not joke I guess, that the sewing circle was ready to go at the opening bell.

I don’t doubt that a lot of that was shill bidding. However, I’m sure there are people like me who place holder bids on items as soon as they see them to be able to separate items we’re actually interested in from those we want to watch. I actually started doing this because eBay is too stupid to allow us to watch as many items as we want.

[rngrdanny22]

I wonder if his wife will show up to this thread like she did with the trimming scandal?

[wheeler281]

^^^ no chance lol

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Nothing like having card doctors on staff, either.

No doubt

[thenightman]

Originally Posted by doctor4329

I highly doubt any of the above considering there's not even a working customer support telephone line, which they took down last year and have skimpy middlemen now working as customer support......total rubbish...

I don't know who you've been dealing with, but I had 3 separate, unrelated issues over the last couple of weeks and the representatives I dealt with via Twitter and their Chat Box were extremely helpful.

[mrchipz]

Originally Posted by pspa123

Yes but why should one trust a guy who is under FBI investigation for fraud and now has been booted from ebay for shill bidding? AND, who will be more motivated than ever to show strong prices.

Like i said before if people really cared about any of that then pwcc wouldnt be getting 30,000+ consignments a month and selling 150 million in sports card sales just this year alone.
I agree with you on the shady stuff but its not stopping people from buying and selling.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I don’t doubt that a lot of that was shill bidding. However, I’m sure there are people like me who place holder bids on items as soon as they see them to be able to separate items we’re actually interested in from those we want to watch. I actually started doing this because eBay is too stupid to allow us to watch as many items as we want.

Of course, it wasn't ALL bad and I did not mean to suggest it was if I did. But overall, compared to other ebay sellers, it was quite striking on numerous high ticket items each auction.

[mrchipz]

Originally Posted by boston12

Oh I know. That’s why I sell outside of ebay for larger value cards.

I'm glad we can agree on something at least lol.

[bobbybradyjr]

It’s possible that PWCC won’t be all that upset to become essentially a “so called” high end auction house.

Higher profit potential, bigger PR/media coverage and less slabs to deal with.

And, with the vault in place, seems easier for the high rollers all the way around.

Granted, the number of eyes on their site will not be close to ebay, but will that matter if they are mostly high end auctions?

I may be wrong but it wouldn’t be the first time. Lol.

[rngrdanny22]

Originally Posted by thenightman

I don't know who you've been dealing with, but I had 3 separate, unrelated issues over the last couple of weeks and the representatives I dealt with via Twitter and their Chat Box were extremely helpful.

I'm glad you got help.

With THREE issues.

In the last COUPLE weeks.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by mrchipz

Would be a lot better then ebay. They raise their fees constantly. They screw sellers over constantly. Let buyers get away with scams daily. You cant even call them anymore they have to call you and good luck getting a person that can speak good english and even better yet good luck getting a person that is in the USA and even better yet good luck getting a person that knows anything about sports cards and the market.

I have a button on ebay that I can push and they call me back within one minute. They are in the USA and speak English too. Shocking huh?

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I don’t doubt that a lot of that was shill bidding. However, I’m sure there are people like me who place holder bids on items as soon as they see them to be able to separate items we’re actually interested in from those we want to watch. I actually started doing this because eBay is too stupid to allow us to watch as many items as we want.

Or to increase its price/interest when the bidding is slow… one or the other… I’m sure.

“To the moon!”, right?

[mrchipz]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I don’t doubt that a lot of that was shill bidding. However, I’m sure there are people like me who place holder bids on items as soon as they see them to be able to separate items we’re actually interested in from those we want to watch. I actually started doing this because eBay is too stupid to allow us to watch as many items as we want.

Agree with you again. weird.

Me personally when something comes up for sale i want i bid on it asap as you say a holder bid.
Then i bid a few more times to feel how high the card is going to go a day or 2 before it ends to finally putting in my max bid within 3 seconds of the auction ending.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by bobbybradyjr

I suspect that PWCC won’t be all that upset to become essentially a “so called” high end auction house.

Higher profit potential, bigger PR/media coverage and less slabs to deal with.

And, with the vault in place, seems easier for the high rollers all the way around.

Granted, the number of eyes on their site will not be close to ebay, but will that matter?

I may be wrong but it wouldn’t be the first time. Lol.

Not to mention making shill bidding even easier.

[beaverman3001]

If they think people will want to move over to their platform after this, good luck. Every time I have dealt with them they have been beyond useless.

[mrchipz]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

I have a button on ebay that I can push and they call me back within one minute. They are in the USA and speak English too. Shocking huh?

Very. As a gold level power seller for over a decade that sells over 100k a year on ebay i have not had that happen at all in the past 3 years now.
Consider yourself lucky.

[rngrdanny22]

Just looking at their Premier Auction FAQ's, it states that all items must have a value of at least $25K. That would exclude like 99% of the slabs they were selling on eBay.

[bobbybradyjr]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

Not to mention making shill bidding even easier.

Good point.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by mrchipz

Im going for Titanium man what you talking about??

Its sad to see so many have so much hate for PWCC that they are blinded by how bad ebay is.

I strongly dislike PWCC because it is personal. They personally cost me $10,000-$20,000 easily when I got back into the hobby. I bought hundreds of Derek Jeter PSA 10's privately on my way to assembling the 688 Basic & Collectors Set, and the most common source of pricing used - PWCC.

I didn't know their tactics or complicity in shilling until after I had been back in the hobby for a few years.

Looking back, I unequivocally overpaid on the way into that set.

And, when I went to sell those same cards, do you think that I got remotely the same value? Not even close.

PWCC can go to hell, but I ain't got no hate.

[mrchipz]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Just looking at their Premier Auction FAQ's, it states that all items must have a value of at least $25K. That would exclude like 99% of the slabs they were selling on eBay.

That is why my understanding is that they will be making their own new "ebay" for buyers and sellers.