Topps Project 2020 is the worst product since 1991 Fleer

[Bleu Falcon]

$200 fannypacks probably seemed like a screaming deal at the time given that stuff like Cartoon Gooden was preselling for hundreds.

[Ra3]

Originally Posted by samcam

People are making bad faith claims and I am suggesting that people that make that claim are, in my eyes, revealing more about how they operate than how the artist actually did.

Do I really have to walk you through organizing completed items by highest price first?

Hmm. Was going to move on from this, and so I’m not sure if you’re referring to me in making claims about Blake’s motivations...but if so, I can tell you I’m definitely willing to stand by my statements. They are simply my opinions. And I’m curious what you think it says about “how I operate” or what else I am projecting.

If you’re referring to me, of course.

[Bleu Falcon]

Originally Posted by Colonel Kurtz

Okay, okay, calm down! Either way I say well done, Mr. Ermsy, well done.

Quoting the part I understand and agreeing heartily.

[Pacmeyer]

Originally Posted by gmoney328

I remember the fanny pack night very clearly. It was at the absolute ZENITH of the hype beast.

I also remember thinking very clearly, "why is this something people want to buy?"

Looks like I was right, and in this case, it sucks some people got left holding the bag. I hope this doesn't happen for the rest of the companions/autos.

Still like Blake's cards though.

Opening line of the eventual P2020 coffee table book

Originally Posted by samcam

People are making bad faith claims and I am suggesting that people that make that claim are, in my eyes, revealing more about how they operate than how the artist actually did.

Do I really have to walk you through organizing completed items by highest price first?

#fannygate

[ctcardexchange]

Why are we trashing artists? It's one thing if you don't like the cards they produce. It's OK to say so. But why are people trashing artists for making money? You can't tell me. there isn't one person on this board who wouldn't do the same. If you think the price is too high, don't buy it. If you didn't like the fanny pack, but bought it just to flip, why are you upset if nobody want's to buy it for more than you paid for it? You didn't like it enough to keep for yourself at $200 and you're upset you can't sell it for $500 like you thought you would when everyone had FOMO? You're a fool! Most of these artists have been super cool. They have been approachable in the most part. A lot of them are doing some great things for charity as well. I buy every P2020 card because I love the idea. I've made some money with my extras and been burned by returns also. But I think most of the artists should be commended for going above and beyond the call of duty.

[Boredlawyer]

Originally Posted by Ra3

Hmm. Was going to move on from this, and so I’m not sure if you’re referring to me in making claims about Blake’s motivations...but if so, I can tell you I’m definitely willing to stand by my statements. They are simply my opinions. And I’m curious what you think it says about “how I operate” or what else I am projecting.

If you’re referring to me, of course.

Originally Posted by samcam

People are making bad faith claims and I am suggesting that people that make that claim are, in my eyes, revealing more about how they operate than how the artist actually did.

Do I really have to walk you through organizing completed items by highest price first?

I don't think we hold the same understanding of the term "bad faith", as it implies acting in a dishonest manner, usually with regard to contractual obligation. The only bad faith dealings I've experienced in Project 2020 are purchasing cards from pre-sellers who fail to fulfill their obligations and require me to navigate Ebay's item not received policy.

It seems that you're trying to imply that my assertion that Blake used his social media "friend/hot tip advisor" platform to sell a mass-produced fanny pack containing primarily Adam Eaton Bowman base cards to a willing, irrationally exuberant market, indicates that I'm operating in bad faith. If so, I am unsure how you arrived at this conclusion.

[samcam]

Originally Posted by Ra3

Hmm. Was going to move on from this, and so I’m not sure if you’re referring to me in making claims about Blake’s motivations...but if so, I can tell you I’m definitely willing to stand by my statements. They are simply my opinions. And I’m curious what you think it says about “how I operate” or what else I am projecting.

If you’re referring to me, of course.

Sorry Ra. I'm not trying to offend you or anything. It is my honest opinion that people who see the worst in other people with no actual evidence to support it are projecting.

If you aren't, you aren't.

I don't really need to defend Blake or anything but to pretend every single artist isn't on a 'money grab' of some kind is naive. Every American is. We are capitalists.

[UGLI baby]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

The Fanny

a one-night only for the viewers OF THE STREAM THAT NIGHT Fanny Pack promotion

$199. you get a Fanny Pack featuring the Living Canvas art (if you dont watch the stream, you dont know what that means) thats filled with the art of Blake, including multiple autos and a shot at one of his P2020 Jackie

how many of you that are complaining about "assigned sales value" were there watching the stream?

i get it, you want your money and you want more money.

im guessing some of you got caught up in the hype. that does happen to all of us sometimes for sure.

someone who doesnt even like Blake mentioned earlier here, some of you are rushing to send artists $100 for one companion card on regular card stock, that isnt even signed. Why is that? to support the artist, or to try to sell it for more money?

as someone that refuses to spend over $30 on any single P2020 card, i get it, things can be costly. i also understand things as a card collector. the thing is, these artists are not from the card world. id venture to say that $100 is not a lot of money to most of the non-card people that call themselves fans of these P2020 artists.

btw, there were not over 400 people watching the stream that night. i dont remember exactly how many, but it was probably around 100 people. with there being over 400 fannys ordered, a new supplier had to be found that could fill the order, which lead to the delay in having them shipped to buyers

I had no idea the fanny was $199. The way people talked about it, I thought it cost $500 min or maybe like $800, no joke.

Nothing for people to complain about at $199 IMO. It was just a fun thing he did at that price.

[Ra3]

Originally Posted by ctcardexchange

Why are we trashing artists? It's one thing if you don't like the cards they produce. It's OK to say so. But why are people trashing artists for making money? You can't tell me. there isn't one person on this board who wouldn't do the same. If you think the price is too high, don't buy it. If you didn't like the fanny pack, but bought it just to flip, why are you upset if nobody want's to buy it for more than you paid for it? You didn't like it enough to keep for yourself at $200 and you're upset you can't sell it for $500 like you thought you would when everyone had FOMO? You're a fool! Most of these artists have been super cool. They have been approachable in the most part. A lot of them are doing some great things for charity as well. I buy every P2020 card because I love the idea. I've made some money with my extras and been burned by returns also. But I think most of the artists should be commended for going above and beyond the call of duty.

FYI...I agree with just about every word of this post. I’m a big fan of the project. I can’t speak to the parts about buying stuff to sell or to flip; I don’t do that.

I also don’t think it’s fair to trash artists (or anyone) for making $ in general, but I do think it is fair to opine on how they (and anyone) do it, if practices seem to be misleading or take advantage of people. And if that’s the case, I can definitely tell you there are people here (and out there) who “wouldn’t do the same.”

[Jopeal]

[UGLI baby]

Originally Posted by Silas Barnaby

Jamieson has definitely done the best job of creating a little community where people watch him every night and think of him almost like a personal friend.

And it is important to remember that this is all about art, not looking at eBay prices and print runs.

Hahaha

[samcam]

Originally Posted by Boredlawyer

I don't think we hold the same understanding of the term "bad faith", as it implies acting in a dishonest manner, usually with regard to contractual obligation. The only bad faith dealings I've experienced in Project 2020 are purchasing cards from pre-sellers who fail to fulfill their obligations and require me to navigate Ebay's item not received policy.

It seems that you're trying to imply that my assertion that Blake used his social media "friend/hot tip advisor" platform to sell a mass-produced fanny pack containing primarily Adam Eaton Bowman base cards to a willing, irrationally exuberant market, indicates that I'm operating in bad faith. If so, I am unsure how you arrived at this conclusion.

My conclusion is that you are saying Blake acted in bad faith in selling it at a price he literally pulled out of thin air, somehow knowing the crash was coming and the $500 card he had teased inside was going to drop 400 percent. Watch the tape. He was having a blast. The 100 people that were on the stream loved it too. If 50 would have been bought, that's how many would have been made and sold. It was supply and demand in real time.

[zack783]

Originally Posted by ctcardexchange

Why are we trashing artists? It's one thing if you don't like the cards they produce. It's OK to say so. But why are people trashing artists for making money? You can't tell me. there isn't one person on this board who wouldn't do the same. If you think the price is too high, don't buy it. If you didn't like the fanny pack, but bought it just to flip, why are you upset if nobody want's to buy it for more than you paid for it? You didn't like it enough to keep for yourself at $200 and you're upset you can't sell it for $500 like you thought you would when everyone had FOMO? You're a fool! Most of these artists have been super cool. They have been approachable in the most part. A lot of them are doing some great things for charity as well. I buy every P2020 card because I love the idea. I've made some money with my extras and been burned by returns also. But I think most of the artists should be commended for going above and beyond the call of duty.

You took the words right out of my mouth. This series (especially the companion stuff) is about art and the artists. If you're buying that stuff to try and flip for a profit- that's your prerogative, but the risk is yours and YOU alone are at fault if that "investment" doesn't pan out. If you're truly a fan of the artists, you'll be cheering for them for making a boatload of money and getting massive amounts of exposure from this project.

[AirplaneDon]

Artist create, we consume. It's as simple as that. The rest is noise.

Criticizing or championing your assumptions of the impetus for their creations available for your consumption is immaterial.

[byronscott4ever]

Artists make art for a living. In theory, couldn’t everything they do be considered a cash grab, assuming they want to have an income?

[UGLI baby]

Originally Posted by gmoney328

I remember the fanny pack night very clearly. It was at the absolute ZENITH of the hype beast.

I also remember thinking very clearly, "why is this something people want to buy?"

Looks like I was right, and in this case, it sucks some people got left holding the bag. I hope this doesn't happen for the rest of the companions/autos.

Still like Blake's cards though.

Don’t get left holding the fanny.

^new slogan.

[Mdrosenkrans]

Originally Posted by byronscott4ever

Wasn’t there a Topps tweet about using both Blake Ichiro versions or did I misread?

Yes, Topps "said" they'd use both....

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[UGLI baby]

Originally Posted by Bleu Falcon

$200 fannypacks probably seemed like a screaming deal at the time given that stuff like Cartoon Gooden was preselling for hundreds.

Yeah, important to remember that at the time, we were all living in one of those phone booths with money flying around, grabbing as many bills as possible. Don C Frank Thomas was like a $400 card when fanny was released.

[UGLI baby]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Haha these last few pages are on another level

[UGLI baby]

Originally Posted by AirplaneDon

Artist create, we consume. It's as simple as that. The rest is noise.

Criticizing or championing your assumptions of the impetus for their creations available for your consumption is immaterial.

Lead us Don. You are our P2020 Captain now.

[Mdrosenkrans]

Good or bad, Blake is a marketer who can make art, not an artist that can market. I do like his art, but being in marketing myself it's hard to look past being sold to in every interaction... IMHO, he saw an opportunity with the fanny pack, took it just as any of us would, and tried to make it cool for his fans. Problem being, fans weren't buying them, it was flippers, so disappointment ensues.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[AirplaneDon]

Originally Posted by UGLI baby

Lead us Don. You are our P2020 Captain now.

The point is Vides and Oldmanalan are stealing money and I want a class action suit immediately.

[Boredlawyer]

Originally Posted by samcam

My conclusion is that you are saying Blake acted in bad faith in selling it at a price he literally pulled out of thin air, somehow knowing the crash was coming and the $500 card he had teased inside was going to drop 400 percent. Watch the tape. He was having a blast. The 100 people that were on the stream loved it too. If 50 would have been bought, that's how many would have been made and sold. It was supply and demand in real time.

You're incorrect. I referred to it as an "egregious cash grab" which, in no way indicates he acted in bad faith. I don't fault him at all--he did exactly what he said he would. He produced a fanny pack which historically held no value, used his social media presence to speculate on a future price (he captured the Gary Vee experience, as well), and made a ton of money on it. He didn't act dishonestly or in bad faith. He simply managed to sell a time-sensitive product that was worth far less than the price he was selling, because his followers couldn't see past the hype.

I say "egregious" because it was shockingly clear, based on every historical metric, and indication that prices were artificially pumped, that the Project was at a hype level unseen in decades. The time frame lasted days/weeks before it fell apart. Jamieson could have offered paint-splattered dog poop containing the half-digested remnants of a Mark McGwire card, and it would have sold out in minutes. It was that bad.

If someone is able to create something and sell exactly what they are advertising at an astronomical profit, I can't fault them. That's merely capitalizing on an irrational market.

I would be having a blast as well if I was selling out $4.95 fanny packs for $200. You seem to be making a correlation between "having a blast" and operating in good faith. The correlation doesn't exist.

[AirplaneDon]

Originally Posted by Mdrosenkrans

Good or bad, Blake is a marketer who can make art, not an artist that can market.

[AlexHunter]

Originally Posted by UGLI baby

Lead us Don. You are our P2020 Captain now.

[mention]ThoseBackPages [/mention] will always be my captain.


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