LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[Irish1351]

Just curious, what year did BGS stop putting subs on the back of the slabs?

[Deadshot]

Yikes, another trimmed copy. I believe the list now looks like this:

James, LeBron 2003-04 Upper Deck Exquisite rookie patch auto 21/99 (major paper tears and auto gone)
James, LeBron 2003-04 Upper Deck Exquisite rookie patch auto 25/99 (bottom edge trimmed)
James, LeBron 2003-04 Upper Deck Exquisite rookie patch auto 63/99 (1 clr patch swapped out)
James, LeBron 2003-04 Upper Deck Exquisite rookie patch auto 64/99 (botched trim job)
James, LeBron 2003-04 Upper Deck Exquisite rookie patch auto 74/99
James, LeBron 2003-04 Upper Deck Exquisite rookie patch auto 87/99

[brothertona]

What Lebron rookie auto isn't heavily trimmed at this point?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by brothertona

What card isn't heavily trimmed at this point?

FTFY and the answer is those that are made of glass.

[bmf]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Oh no. That’s Court’s copy.

who is court?

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

The card has now reappeared in the Vault. Buyer beware.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/vault-marketplace/2493

This has now been removed again from the Vault.

[auburn35]

Is there any history on the submitter of this altered card?

Looking at the population report, this was the ninth card graded and a couple of the previous eight grades, could easily be attempts on this card.
Two cards match up very well with the subgrades (great on everything, except for corners) prior to the trimming on this one. If anyone knows the history, we might be able to link the card to a specific individual.

[AbraCalabro]

Auburn, I just sent you a PM. I think I know who owned this card before it sold to the trimmer, I have been hunting this one for a long time. The trim job and the two BGS 8 grades preceding the 9.5 all line up with what I know about my white whale.

My white whale has the pre-trim owner grading his RPA twice and then finally selling it before it reappeared as a BGS 9.5. It also had what was described as "chipping" in the bottom left corner. Please respond when you have a free moment.

COMC12345678910, if you can email me when you are free to do so, I'd like to ask about your source on the ungraded image of the latest trimmed example. I have a question for him and I'm hoping he has the data I'm looking for from all the way back in 2006.

If this is the same card, then it originally resurfaced for sale, post-trim, in November of 2006.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Auburn, I just sent you a PM. I think I know who owned this card before it sold to the trimmer, I have been hunting this one for a long time. The trim job and the two BGS 8 grades preceding the 9.5 all line up with what I know about my white whale.

My white whale has the pre-trim owner grading his RPA twice and then finally selling it before it reappeared as a BGS 9.5. It also had what was described as "chipping" in the bottom left corner. Please respond when you have a free moment.

COMC12345678910, if you can email me when you are free to do so, I'd like to ask about your source on the ungraded image of the latest trimmed example. I have a question for him and I'm hoping he has the data I'm looking for from all the way back in 2006.

If this is the same card, then it originally resurfaced for sale, post-trim, in November of 2006.

PM sent with the requested information.
This card was graded in November of 2006, so it sounds like you might be on the right track.

[shakobe]

Originally Posted by bmf

who is court?

Might be Louis Papa Jr.

[bmf]

Originally Posted by brothertona

What Lebron rookie auto isn't heavily trimmed at this point?

it feels that way, doesn't it? but of course the answer is that the vast majority of lebron rookies have not been heavily trimmed... or even trimmed or altered at all. the ones that are trimmed are the ones that we see on the market where the scum is trying to cash in...and then of course BODA and deadshot (who should be in BODA) publicize it to help and protect us. so it ends up seeming like they are all trimmed but of course that is super far from the truth.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by bmf

it feels that way, doesn't it? but of course the answer is that the vast majority of lebron rookies have not been heavily trimmed... or even trimmed or altered at all. the ones that are trimmed are the ones that we see on the market where the scum is trying to cash in...and then of course BODA and deadshot (who should be in BODA) publicize it to help and protect us. so it ends up seeming like they are all trimmed but of course that is super far from the truth.

There’s infinitely more trimmed cards not currently for sale that are in collections, so I’m not sure I understand your point. The vast majority of raw cards are untrimmed and the majority of high grade examples are trimmed. Whatever that amounts to overall is where it stands.

[bmf]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

There’s infinitely more trimmed cards not currently for sale that are in collections, so I’m not sure I understand your point. The vast majority of raw cards are untrimmed and the majority of high grade examples are trimmed. Whatever that amounts to overall is where it stands.

my point is that the trimmed cards get way more public attention so it gives collectors a distorted perception of the percentage that is trimmed.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by bmf

my point is that the trimmed cards get way more public attention so it gives collectors a distorted perception of the percentage that is trimmed.

Yeah, but we’re only calling out like 1% of trimmed cards for sale, if that.

[bmf]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

Yeah, but we’re only calling out like 1% of trimmed cards for sale, if that.

we could both speculate until we're blue in the face. it's just guessing -- who knows what the percentage is. please don't take this as anything other than my take because there are few here who are as grateful to you, deadshot, etc., as i am for all of your great work and help.

[yrozmaryn]

I imagine its much tougher to trim Chrome and Finest than the paper stock cards, right?
I know very little about trimming aside from what ive read on here.
Thanks

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by yrozmaryn

I imagine its much tougher to trim Chrome and Finest than the paper stock cards, right?
I know very little about trimming aside from what ive read on here.
Thanks

No. That’s not the case at all.

[yrozmaryn]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

No. That’s not the case at all.

Got it, ok. Most of the trimmed stuff ive seen called out on here are RPA's and 90's inserts. Havent seen too much Bowman Chrome baseball or Topps Chrome or Panini basketball.

[pcptrade]

Is there a public database that has pictures of raw exquisite RPA's before they got slabbed? I found this but most of the them are graded-

https://buynicecards.com/lebron-exquisite-database

[Deadshot]

Originally Posted by pcptrade

Is there a public database that has pictures of raw exquisite RPA's before they got slabbed? I found this but most of the them are graded-

https://buynicecards.com/lebron-exquisite-database

There isn't unfortunately.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by yrozmaryn

Got it, ok. Most of the trimmed stuff ive seen called out on here are RPA's and 90's inserts. Havent seen too much Bowman Chrome baseball or Topps Chrome or Panini basketball.

Because most of those cards aren't serial numbered.

[Deadshot]

Any new info on 25/99?

[theleica]

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

For anyone keeping track, #25/99 can be added to the list of altered copies following a new scan of the card from February 2006 surfacing. The bottom edge is clearly trimmed. It has been removed from the PWCC Vault as of today.

Here is a quote from the thread announcing the BO member bought this card:

“This card is probably the poster child of high end cards when it comes to "possibly altered". For that reason, I think the old cert and provenance (and the fact that 312 vetted the card prior to purchase) actually makes the card much more desirable as it sits. The provenance is iron-clad. For me, this card hits the trifecta of great grade + great patch + great provenance...and IMO can't do much better than that.”

How does a scan manage to surface less than 2 months later after being in hiding for 13 or 14 years?

EDIT : Also, if the provenance is/was iron-clad than the buyer would know exactly who trimmed it, correct?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AbraCalabro]

Originally Posted by Deadshot

Any new info on 25/99?

Possibly. Stay tuned.

[KhalDrogo]

I am glad this thread was bumped to bring attention to this. Not sure why this one didn't get its own thread, seeing as it is the most expensive example of a potentially altered card posted on the boards.

I guess I overlooked or had forgotten that 312 vetted this card before the purchase. What exactly went into that vetting if it was so quickly outed as altered after the purchase? I will assume the reference image came from buybuymj, who has the most complete documentation of the LeBron Exquisite RPA print run. Was he consulted prior to the purchase? This isn't something that should happen after the fact.

This copy sold raw on eBay on August 6, 2006 for $11.2k. Unfortunately, Worthpoint does not go past November 2006, but I was able to locate an image of the card from that auction. It is not obvious that there is any corner damage.



The sale strikes me as unusual if the corner damage was present. That $11.2k was the highest sale for ANY LeBron RPA on eBay until a BGS 9.5 copy sold for $16.5k in April 2011. The highest sale of any LeBron Exquisite on eBay prior to that was $6,400, just two weeks before.

So after the sale, the card is slabbed by BGS on November 14, 2006. These are the cards that appear to be from the same sub (corners bolded).

4807347 - 2003-04 Ultimate Collection Signatures Gold LeBron James/23 BGS 9.5 (9.5/9.5/9.5/9.5)
4807349 - 2004-05 Ultimate Collection Signature Logos Dwight Howard BGS 9 (9.5/8.5/9/9)
4807354 - 2004-05 Exquisite Collection Jameer Nelson JSY AU BGS 9.5 (10/9.5/9/9.5)
4807358 - 2004-05 Exquisite Collection Ben Gordon JSY AU BGS 9 (9.5/9/9/8.5)
4807362 - 2005-06 Exquisite Collection Autographs Patches LeBron James BGS 9 (9.5/8.5/9/9)
4807363 - 2003-04 Exquisite Collection Patches Autographs LeBron James BGS 9 (10/9.5/9.5/8)
4807366 - Index card
4807368 - 2003-04 Exquisite Collection C.Anthony JSY AU NG

If this was a trimmer's sub, he is not winning any awards for his skills.

Now back to the card. I can't say for certain because of the image quality, but the card might be in a soft sleeve. Either way, the appearance of both corners is distorted. See blown up pictures below.





The vertical edge of the left corner has an unusual angle, which is certainly not damage unless you believe the left edge also had a large chunk hacked off it. The most objective evidence of alteration would be in the distance from the "2003-2004 Exquisite Collection" text to the bottom border of the card. But the white of the card is completely blended into the background, and the corners are so ill-defined that it is very difficult to define where that bottom border actually begins.

I would love to hear Dan or corndog's opinion of this one given the magnitude of the claim, the less clear evidence than what is usually provided, and 312's apparent change in heart regarding the legitimacy of the card.