MLB Heading To A Lockout

[doowopbruce]

Originally Posted by goldfly

the owners are such garbage

Both sides are the same thing.

[fabiani12333]

I think the players will have to get a major concession or multiple smaller concessions from the owners, otherwise they'll be viewed as pushovers.

They're starting from an aggressive position, wanting a major overhaul to the CBA. You cant settle for incremental changes and be taken seriously in negotiations by the owners in the future.

[anusinha]

Are they still negotiating right now or are they not talking to each other?

[rman112]

Originally Posted by doowopbruce

Both sides are the same thing.

Negotations, if honest:

"What does your side want?"

Owners: "More money."

"Ok, what does your side want."

Players: "More money as well!"

[OscarOne]

Originally Posted by anusinha

Are they still negotiating right now or are they not talking to each other?

Legally, they have to speak. But right now, nothing seems planned.

[SupermanBrandon]

They wont actively start talking until the end of Jan/early Feb. We've seen this movie before.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

They should also factor in what age a player signs or is drafted at. A player signed at 16 in the DR is likely to debut at a younger age than a player signed out of college at 21.

For example, Alex Bregam was drafted at 21 and debuted at 22. It's reasonable that he should be a free agent at 28.

On the other hand, Wander Franco was drafted at 16 and debuted at 20. It should be reasonable to expect him to be free agent at 26. A team having control of player and their develop for more than 10 years is kind of ridiculous.

By allowing players to reach free agency in their 20s, it helps them make more money because their 20s are typically their prime years. Teams dont want to sign players to long term deals in their 30s when they are declining.

Exactly. These guys should be free agents in their 20s because those are the prime of a player's career. Interested teams should be able to bid while they're entering their primes, not in the middle or near the end as the current system is (think Aaron Judge).

The NHL rule is seven accrued seasons or turning 27 by June 30th (so it'd be a couple weeks after the World Series for MLB), whichever comes first.

Guys progress at different rates. Juan Soto was ready at 19; Judge at 25. Judge was an MVP candidate as soon as he took the field though and he's being punished by not being a UFA until 2023 because it took him longer to get called up.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I think the players will have to get a major concession or multiple smaller concessions from the owners, otherwise they'll be viewed as pushovers.

They're starting from an aggressive position, wanting a major overhaul to the CBA. You cant settle for incremental changes and be taken seriously in negotiations by the owners in the future.

Could you replace “players” with “owners” and vice versa and have an equally true statement???


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[pewe]

Originally Posted by rman112

Negotations, if honest:

"What does your side want?"

Owners: "More money."

"Ok, what does your side want."

Players: "More money as well!"

So they can agree on something!


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[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by pewe

Could you replace “players” with “owners” and vice versa and have an equally true statement???


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The owners would be fine with the status quo.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

The owners would be fine with the status quo.

If the status quo is the players demands, then I don’t think so…

Concession is vs. the other party’s expectation, not vs. an expired CBA that doesn’t exist any longer


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[ScooterMcRibs]

#1 on the agenda should be speeding up games. Faster games means more fans which means more revenue. Drop the DH, no more batters backing out, pitchers are now on the clock. Limit RPs to 2-3 warm up pitches (they can and should throw their warmups in the bullpen). 2 hours should be the target for 9 inning games.

[goldfly]

Originally Posted by doowopbruce

Both sides are the same thing.

no

they aren't

[Handsome Wes]

Originally Posted by pewe

If the status quo is the players demands, then I don’t think so…

Concession is vs. the other party’s expectation, not vs. an expired CBA that doesn’t exist any longer


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That’s…. Not what status quo means.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Handsome Wes

That’s…. Not what status quo means.

Status quo is no CBA.

The only other anchors are the players’ and owners’ offers.

Concessions occur vs. offers. Not vs. a lack of CBA.


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[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by ScooterMcRibs

#1 on the agenda should be speeding up games. Faster games means more fans which means more revenue. Drop the DH, no more batters backing out, pitchers are now on the clock. Limit RPs to 2-3 warm up pitches (they can and should throw their warmups in the bullpen). 2 hours should be the target for 9 inning games.

There's no reason we should spend 1.5hrs per game watching a pitch adjust his belt, hat and shirt sleeve while the batter adjusts his batting gloves and elbow armor. Pitch clock is a MUST!

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by pewe

Status quo is no CBA.

The only other anchors are the players’ and owners’ offers.

Concessions occur vs. offers. Not vs. a lack of CBA.


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Bryce Harper proposed extending the previous CBA one year to avoid missing games -- that would be the status quo, in my mind.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

There's no reason we should spend 1.5hrs per game watching a pitch adjust his belt, hat and shirt sleeve while the batter adjusts his batting gloves and elbow armor. Pitch clock is a MUST!

A pitch clock is such an easy solution to improving pace -- it's got to be implemented.

Unlike an automated strike zone, a pitch clock has grounding in the existing rule book and doesn't dramatically alter the fundamental aspects of the game.

[fabiani12333]

The more I read and listen about the CBA negotiations, the more it becomes clear that the mid-tier of MLB players have been steadily getting squeezed by front offices and by extension owners.

Front offices have been getting more value out of mid-tier players in recent years while paying them less. It looks like something needs to change to prevent this trend from getting worse for the players.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Bryce Harper proposed extending the previous CBA one year to avoid missing games -- that would be the status quo, in my mind.

Stats quo is no CBA.

Extending the CBA, per Harper’s comment, would certainly be a significant concession by the owners if they decided to agree on it.

I’m guessing, because of how poorly that worked out in ‘94-95, that is very low likelihood the owners will decide that’s a worth while concession.


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[anusinha]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

The more I read and listen about the CBA negotiations, the more it becomes clear that the mid-tier of MLB players have been steadily getting squeezed by front offices and by extension owners.

Front offices have been getting more value out of mid-tier players in recent years while paying them less. It looks like something needs to change to prevent this trend from getting worse for the players.

The expensive players arent worth the money they make. Value is in the younger players.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

The more I read and listen about the CBA negotiations, the more it becomes clear that the mid-tier of MLB players have been steadily getting squeezed by front offices and by extension owners.

Front offices have been getting more value out of mid-tier players in recent years while paying them less. It looks like something needs to change to prevent this trend from getting worse for the players.

What is “mid tier”? And where have you seen mid-tier players getting paid less?

The bigger complaint I’ve seen is average salary not increasing. But “average” is misleading: this effect is due to increasing number of roster spots, and those slots being filled with AAAA players (because they haven’t figured out how to clone MLB players, yet). So by definition the average declines.


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[bavariancream]

Originally Posted by ScooterMcRibs

#1 on the agenda should be speeding up games. Faster games means more fans which means more revenue. Drop the DH, no more batters backing out, pitchers are now on the clock. Limit RPs to 2-3 warm up pitches (they can and should throw their warmups in the bullpen). 2 hours should be the target for 9 inning games.

I do not think the fan experience or perspective is a high priority for either side of the lockout. Both are focused on themselves (not fans) unless it significantly impacts their profits or salary. And, of course, this is all about money.

[80s Kid]

Originally Posted by bavariancream

I do not think the fan experience or perspective is a high priority for either side of the lockout. Both are focused on themselves (not fans) unless it significantly impacts their profits or salary. And, of course, this is all about money.

I don’t agree shortening games will bring in more fans and really shouldn’t be a priority during negotiations.

A pitch clock should exist but it doesn’t need to be explicit in the CBA.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by pewe

What is “mid tier”? And where have you seen mid-tier players getting paid less?

The bigger complaint I’ve seen is average salary not increasing. But “average” is misleading: this effect is due to increasing number of roster spots, and those slots being filled with AAAA players (because they haven’t figured out how to clone MLB players, yet). So by definition the average declines.


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Buster Olney:

As part of this piece,
@PaulHembo
dug out these numbers on the middle class of free agents and their steep decline in salary:
2020: Avg contract $6.2M
2019: $7.8M
2018: $8.0M
2017: $8.2M
2016: $8.2M
----------NEW CBA---------
2015: $11.1M
2014: $11.8M

Mid-tier (middle class): players making more than 1m and less than the top 10 free agents -- around 60-80 middle class free agents a year.