Jordan Star rookie question - Page 15

Diana1984 · 02-19-2021, 09:11 AM

Ok. Can someone give some analysis on this. The 6 went for just as much as a 7.5. So what happened? Did the 6 over pay? or did the 7.5 get a good deal. Which is it? Cause I thought I had a shot at the 6.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Sta...H/363289755876

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Sta...T/143942738402

Gridiron Bob · 02-19-2021, 09:13 AM

At first glance looks like shilling.

theleica · 02-19-2021, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana1984

Ok. Can someone give some analysis on this. The 6 went for just as much as a 7.5. So what happened? Did the 6 over pay? or did the 7.5 get a good deal. Which is it? Cause I thought I had a shot at the 6.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Sta...H/363289755876

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Sta...T/143942738402

The short answer is you have no shot at either unless you are willing to wildly overpay. How do you think the pump works?

I'm surprised that in all your research, you didn't look up eBay consigners on here.

Look at the bid history on PWCC's auction. Oh wait you can't....

Also, the other auction is Probstein and looks shilled.

Diana1984 · 02-19-2021, 09:26 AM

Woah! wait a minute. You think both of these auctions were fake? They actually werent purchased for those prices?

EJKaufman · 02-19-2021, 09:35 AM

The bgs 6 sale was 100% shilled and will not be paid for. The BGS 7.5 sale at 32.6k I believe was legit. The BGS 8.5 sale with pwcc last night for 52.6k I believe to be legit too as it was actually 3k under the previous comp (non pwcc sale) of 55.6k.

Diana1984 · 02-19-2021, 09:39 AM

So in the future I should avoid auctions from PWCC and Probstein?

aro13 · 02-19-2021, 10:48 AM

The 7.5 sale was 100% legit.

GTguy · 02-19-2021, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJKaufman

The bgs 6 sale was 100% shilled and will not be paid for. The BGS 7.5 sale at 32.6k I believe was legit. The BGS 8.5 sale with pwcc last night for 52.6k I believe to be legit too as it was actually 3k under the previous comp (non pwcc sale) of 55.6k.

I've had multiple offers of 25k+ on my 101 BGS 5.5, so if that 6 was shilled, it wasn't shilled by much...

aro13 · 02-19-2021, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana1984

So in the future I should avoid auctions from PWCC and Probstein?

This question could start a huge debate. Shilling is common in many cases. Both PWCC and Probstein are huge consignor services so it is easy for the consignor of those cards to bid them up to whatever level they want. Worst case they pay the commission for selling the card and a new price is established and they sell again. Some people believe that PWCC and Probstein both shill their own auctions but that is up for debate.

I don't buy from PWCC due to the trimming scandal exposed on this board and the fact that I have been shilled quite a few times in their auctions.

However, if you are in the market for a Star Jordan, avoiding these sellers would make your search a lot more difficult. As they say usually stuff trumps everything.

Totalpackage · 02-19-2021, 11:08 AM

PWCC and Probstein are the last two sellers that I am willing to buy from, but sometimes they really have the cards I want. For examples, people follow their sales for Star Jordans and use PWCC/Probstein's final sale price as the price reference for their own items. However, if I missed a Star Jordan from PWCC, I probably couldn't buy an another one for the same price since the other sellers usually ask for higher price.

Star Jordans are sellers' market right now; Every time I open a Star Jordan item page on my iPhone, I can see the number of viewers per hour for that item which is much much more than ever before so I think this bump for Star Jordans is no joke even thought they do have some shilling goes on. In fact, this purchase wave is not only for Star Jordans but also happened to other big names like Star Olajuwon, Star Barkley, Star Stockton etc.

MattMiller · 02-19-2021, 11:16 AM

it is what it is... buy when you can from whoever... just be sure what you are getting

DajuanWagner · 02-19-2021, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana1984

So in the future I should avoid auctions from PWCC and Probstein?

Yes. At all costs!!!!!!

Diana1984 · 02-19-2021, 11:20 AM

If Im understanding some of you correctly, it sounds like these 2 companies have their own agents involved in the auction making sure the price gets bid up to a healthy amount. So what happens if one these insiders wins the auction? Does the item actually get sold? Do they pay the seller from their own pocket and then just relist the item again since they own the card? Is this how it works?

MattMiller · 02-19-2021, 11:23 AM

That statement is assumed and with all auctions, needs to be proven. What they are saying it seems it happens but does not mean always... If you want a card , and they are the only 2 who have it, buy all means get it...

Brent72 · 02-19-2021, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTguy

I've had multiple offers of 25k+ on my 101 BGS 5.5, so if that 6 was shilled, it wasn't shilled by much...

That's why I'm really surprised the 7.5 didn't go for more than $32k.

aro13 · 02-19-2021, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana1984

If Im understanding some of you correctly, it sounds like these 2 companies have their own agents involved in the auction making sure the price gets bid up to a healthy amount. So what happens if one these insiders wins the auction? Does the item actually get sold? Do they pay the seller from their own pocket and then just relist the item again since they own the card? Is this how it works?

I doubt they shill their own auctions currently but some would disagree.

The consignor bids the auction up to where they want. The consignor pays the fees and the item gets re-listed. Win-win, except for the new buyer. When you look at past sales, see how many times a card gets re-listed by the same company that originally sold it. Some of these will be flippers trying to profit quickly but other times it is an item that was shilled and did not sell to a real bidder.

GOATcards · 02-19-2021, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totalpackage

PWCC and Probstein are the last two sellers that I am willing to buy from, but sometimes they really have the cards I want. For examples, people follow their sales for Star Jordans and use PWCC/Probstein's final sale price as the price reference for their own items. However, if I missed a Star Jordan from PWCC, I probably couldn't buy an another one for the same price since the other sellers usually ask for higher price.

Star Jordans are sellers' market right now; Every time I open a Star Jordan item page on my iPhone, I can see the number of viewers per hour for that item which is much much more than ever before so I think this bump for Star Jordans is no joke even thought they do have some shilling goes on. In fact, this purchase wave is not only for Star Jordans but also happened to other big names like Star Olajuwon, Star Barkley, Star Stockton etc.

I can attest to getting priced out of the market on a lot of this (Star MJ) stuff. I'm not exactly liking the bid-sniping format and the BIN prices are ridiculous. And I ended up passing on a BGS 8 #117 since there are so few of those in that grade that I can't figure out a pricing trend or ratios. It's like a market meant to screw buyers (you've got to be loaded or desperate) at this point.

GOATcards · 02-19-2021, 03:24 PM

You'd think with all these shilling accusations there'd be some investigation by legal authorities (bids are represented to be legally binding thingamajigs after all).

Brent72 · 02-19-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATcards

You'd think with all these shilling accusations there'd be some investigation by legal authorities (bids are represented to be legally binding thingamajigs after all).

I hope law enforcement has something better to do than going after people bidding on cardboard pictures.

GOATcards · 02-19-2021, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATcards

I can attest to getting priced out of the market on a lot of this (Star MJ) stuff. I'm not exactly liking the bid-sniping format and the BIN prices are ridiculous. And I ended up passing on a BGS 8 #117 since there are so few of those in that grade that I can't figure out a pricing trend or ratios. It's like a market meant to screw buyers (you've got to be loaded or desperate) at this point.

Plus that 8 had a huge amount of white on a corner. I have to think crossover potential or comparisons if/when PSA begins grading these. If the price looks "reasonable" in this market it's probably too good to be true. (Also had to pass on a PSA 8.5 87 Sticker with a wrinkled flip and chipped slab and distracting slant cut being offered at a suspiciously flat-8-like price as the prices on these seem to be softening a bit. Heck, a BGS 9 of these just went for barely-over-PSA-8 prices, with a slant cut and slightly off-register image. Damn tough card to find without production flaws, combined with at-least-tied-for-best-photo on a MJ card, equals nice returns long-run on low-flaw copies, but short term?....)

GOATcards · 02-19-2021, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent72

I hope law enforcement has something better to do than going after people bidding on cardboard pictures.

It doesn't matter what they're bidding on, does it? Shilled auctions (on whatever) seem like as good a target for white-collar law enforcement as any. Serious market for this stuff.

If you really think these auctions are being shilled, then find out from Law Enforcement whether they are doing anything about it. Especially with all the big money entering the market, and big money people tend to have sway with LE.

Diana1984 · 02-19-2021, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent72

That's why I'm really surprised the 7.5 didn't go for more than $32k.

I was too. It looks like the prices really jump dramatically when you go from a 7.5 to an 8.5.

yoyosh · 02-19-2021, 04:28 PM

wow, this escalated quickly!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-86-Sta...53.m1438.l2649

Totalpackage · 02-19-2021, 11:54 PM

It's good to see every Star Jordan is so welcomed by the collectors. If this wave keeps going for a year, there might be big chance that PSA will decide to grade them again since Beckett's getting more and more submissions on Star cards.

2000man · 02-20-2021, 09:06 AM

Nice to see the shop at home cards are alive and well. These are the 1985-86 #95-172 cards among others. Would like to know what BGS actual rejected numbers look like? Be interesting if they had data like that. I have real doubts though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-86-Sta...app-cvip-panel

02-19-2021, 09:13 AM	#352
Gridiron Bob Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Left forgotten in your basement Posts: 425	At first glance looks like shilling. __________________ Three things to remember about this hobby: 1. It's just cardboard 2. Your collection = your rules 3. Enjoy and cherish what you already have

02-19-2021, 10:48 AM	#357
aro13 Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 970	7.5 sale The 7.5 sale was 100% legit.

02-19-2021, 11:08 AM	#360
Totalpackage Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: California Posts: 1,113 totalpackage	PWCC and Probstein are the last two sellers that I am willing to buy from, but sometimes they really have the cards I want. For examples, people follow their sales for Star Jordans and use PWCC/Probstein's final sale price as the price reference for their own items. However, if I missed a Star Jordan from PWCC, I probably couldn't buy an another one for the same price since the other sellers usually ask for higher price. Star Jordans are sellers' market right now; Every time I open a Star Jordan item page on my iPhone, I can see the number of viewers per hour for that item which is much much more than ever before so I think this bump for Star Jordans is no joke even thought they do have some shilling goes on. In fact, this purchase wave is not only for Star Jordans but also happened to other big names like Star Olajuwon, Star Barkley, Star Stockton etc. Last edited by Totalpackage; 02-19-2021 at 11:21 AM.

02-19-2021, 09:11 AM	#351
Diana1984 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 172	Ok. Can someone give some analysis on this. The 6 went for just as much as a 7.5. So what happened? Did the 6 over pay? or did the 7.5 get a good deal. Which is it? Cause I thought I had a shot at the 6. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Sta...H/363289755876 https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-Sta...T/143942738402

02-19-2021, 09:26 AM	#354
Diana1984 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 172	Woah! wait a minute. You think both of these auctions were fake? They actually werent purchased for those prices?

02-19-2021, 09:35 AM	#355
EJKaufman Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 125 madelawyer	The bgs 6 sale was 100% shilled and will not be paid for. The BGS 7.5 sale at 32.6k I believe was legit. The BGS 8.5 sale with pwcc last night for 52.6k I believe to be legit too as it was actually 3k under the previous comp (non pwcc sale) of 55.6k.

02-19-2021, 09:39 AM	#356
Diana1984 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 172	So in the future I should avoid auctions from PWCC and Probstein?

02-19-2021, 11:16 AM	#361
MattMiller Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 413	it is what it is... buy when you can from whoever... just be sure what you are getting

02-19-2021, 11:20 AM	#363
Diana1984 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 172	If Im understanding some of you correctly, it sounds like these 2 companies have their own agents involved in the auction making sure the price gets bid up to a healthy amount. So what happens if one these insiders wins the auction? Does the item actually get sold? Do they pay the seller from their own pocket and then just relist the item again since they own the card? Is this how it works?

02-19-2021, 11:23 AM	#364
MattMiller Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 413	That statement is assumed and with all auctions, needs to be proven. What they are saying it seems it happens but does not mean always... If you want a card , and they are the only 2 who have it, buy all means get it...

02-19-2021, 03:24 PM	#368
GOATcards Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 6,492	You'd think with all these shilling accusations there'd be some investigation by legal authorities (bids are represented to be legally binding thingamajigs after all).

02-19-2021, 04:28 PM	#373
yoyosh Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: USA Posts: 4,299 partyauctions yoyosh	wow, this escalated quickly! https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-86-Sta...53.m1438.l2649

02-19-2021, 11:54 PM	#374
Totalpackage Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: California Posts: 1,113 totalpackage	It's good to see every Star Jordan is so welcomed by the collectors. If this wave keeps going for a year, there might be big chance that PSA will decide to grade them again since Beckett's getting more and more submissions on Star cards.

02-20-2021, 09:06 AM	#375
2000man Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Cleveland Posts: 61	Nice to see the shop at home cards are alive and well. These are the 1985-86 #95-172 cards among others. Would like to know what BGS actual rejected numbers look like? Be interesting if they had data like that. I have real doubts though. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-86-Sta...app-cvip-panel