The Official NBA Regular Season Thread—-20/21 Edition

[BRob1]

Originally Posted by Giannis34fan

How about Stephen Curry getting MVP consideration??

How about the guy who went for 43 and 16 ...

[daeve]

yeah, probably best shooter all-time

https://streamable.com/yueo1y

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by BRob1

How about the guy who went for 43 and 16 ...

How about the guy that had 36/16/10.

Lillard was incredible today though.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by daeve

yeah, probably best shooter all-time

https://streamable.com/yueo1y

It's such a shame how banged up they are.

Imagine him and Klay this season and Draymond running the offense. They'd still be great.

[SDcardguy24]

Lillard making his MVP case. I thought they were done after CJ went down. But Gary Trent Jr. having a breakout season helps.

Heat looking more & more like a fluke. Have to wonder if they should have pushed harder to make a move for Harden

Originally Posted by eastbayak

DUBS BABY, HOLY!! Without Wiseman, Draymond, Looney and Chriss (and Klay), no big man!!!

definitely one of their best wins of the season, up there with the comeback wins against the LA teams

[BRob1]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

How about the guy that had 36/16/10.

Lillard was incredible today though.

Big stat line. 17 boards according to espn.com.

Dame was the 18th man ever to go for 40/15, and he’s doing that stuff nightly. It’s a shame he most likely won’t start the all star game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by SDcardguy24

definitely one of their best wins of the season, up there with the comeback wins against the LA teams

I think that's the 3rd time this season they've won a game in which they trailed by 18+, and all three against playoff teams from last year (Clippers, Lakers, Miami).

And this time without Draymond....

[rustywest]

[rustywest]

Originally Posted by Braswell10

The Wizards must not want a top 5 pick in a loaded draft

I know where you are coming from but as a Westbrook fan, I want to see them win. They are beginning to look like a real team, ever since they defined roles and locking in starters - Wagner, Hachimura, Mathews, Beal, Westbrook... the team looks miles better. Wagner & Mathews with the ENERGY. The bench now has some real punch. I hope old Scotty sticks with the starting lineup despite Mo getting absolutely torched by Jokic in the 1st, great job defending the Joker Len/ROLO! Neto>Smith... unfortunately Ish kills the offense because when its swing swing to him open 3 he can't shoot. It must be the worst looking 3 in the game today? Its got that filthy hitch

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Yep.

I like Murray. But he hasn't been playing that amazing this season and they have very little help beyond those 2.

Honestly, Westbrook has a penchant for bringing out the best in guys. For example, Dame & Mitchell but also, Murray ALWAYS brings it when he plays Russ.

Originally Posted by spurs50fan

Bert went off from 3

About time. Great game from ole Davis, didn't even commit a single horrendous foul either!

[indyguy]

All the MVP chatter and I'm thinking Steph has to be up there. What a season he's having so far. The Warriors are in much better position than many of us thought they would.

[tjforce]

Current West Standings:

Warriors 7th
Nuggets 8th
Memphis 9th
Mavericks 10th.

You have Steph, Jokic, and Luka all in the playoff round.

And that is why none of them could be considered MVP right now. Their teams don't stand out from each other and they all just cancel each other out *at the moment*.

I'd have to look up to the top of the list and put LeBron above them, first and foremost, then even Lillard, since he has the numbers, injuries around him, and a better record.

In the East, the only guy I couldn't put below that group is Embiid. I probably place Giannis in the same bucket as those 3 as well. Great numbers, team isn's killing it enough to win MVP.

My Rankings:

1. LeBron
2. Embiid
3. Lillard
Next 5 in no order: Giannis, Curry, Jokic, Luka, Durant (in no particular order)

This could all change is a team goes on a 8 game win or losing streak.

[Dame]

Originally Posted by indyguy

All the MVP chatter and I'm thinking Steph has to be up there. What a season he's having so far. The Warriors are in much better position than many of us thought they would.

He's my pick on the MVP thread but I understand that ultimately, despite of his brilliance, he would need to at least finish at a higher seed. That said, the media could always make exceptions. They do it once in a blue moon, and they could exercise the MVP's unwritten rule again and give it to Curry. What he's doing right now is just amazing to me- Dame is of course on the same level and equally deserving but Curry's narrative perhaps sounds a bit more enticing.

It's going to be interesting how the season plays out, plenty of games left.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Current West Standings:

Warriors 7th
Nuggets 8th
Memphis 9th
Mavericks 10th.

Well this is why it's somewhat silly to base MVP rankings off of team performance this early on. (And as a whole, team performance in general).

Lakers have played the top 4 seeds in the west (other than themselves) 3 times so far. Nuggets have played them 8 times so far. In addition, Denver has played Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Philly and Boston all on the road already. Dallas has a similarly tough SoS, as does Memphis. The balance to start the year is a bit off.

By the end of the year, the schedules will align. Does that mean Doncic beating up on Detroit twice, Washington twice, OKC 3 times in the second half means he's more deserving of MVP? Meh. The counter argument of course is does it elevate Jokic MVP status now because his #'s are against the good teams? LAL twice / UTA twice / PHO three times / LAC / MIL / BOS / BKN / PHI? Also meh.

I think early on, team performance is less of a thing and individual performance is more of a thing. Again though, it all aligns on the last game of the year, so then records will carry some weight. They just don't carry much now because a lot of schedules are out of whack.

Remaining SoS. This plays well for Giannis as well.

[oshmeehan]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Well this is why it's somewhat silly to base MVP rankings off of team performance this early on. (And as a whole, team performance in general).

Lakers have played the top 4 seeds in the west (other than themselves) 3 times so far. Nuggets have played them 8 times so far. In addition, Denver has played Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Philly and Boston all on the road already. Dallas has a similarly tough SoS, as does Memphis. The balance to start the year is a bit off.

By the end of the year, the schedules will align. Does that mean Doncic beating up on Detroit twice, Washington twice, OKC 3 times in the second half means he's more deserving of MVP? Meh. The counter argument of course is does it elevate Jokic MVP status now because his #'s are against the good teams? LAL twice / UTA twice / PHO three times / LAC / MIL / BOS / BKN / PHI? Also meh.

I think early on, team performance is less of a thing and individual performance is more of a thing. Again though, it all aligns on the last game of the year, so then records will carry some weight. They just don't carry much now because a lot of schedules are out of whack.

Remaining SoS. This plays well for Giannis as well.

Is this SOS for just the remaining games from the first half of the season?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by oshmeehan

Is this SOS for just the remaining games from the first half of the season?

Pulled it from Woj twitter, says it's rest of season. Did a search online and can't find a site w/ a full picture though.

This one here shows Lakers w/ easiest schedule so far but only details 1st half of season.

http://powerrankingsguru.com/nba/str...f-schedule.php

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by oshmeehan

Is this SOS for just the remaining games from the first half of the season?

Pretty sure it's for the rest of the season. The matchups are already set for the season. Just a matter of where they fall on the calendar.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Pretty sure it's for the rest of the season. The matchups are already set for the season. Just a matter of where they fall on the calendar.

Credit to the Lakers for having the record so far, they played LAC to open the season. Other than that, the only top 5 team in the West played was POR (and Lakers are 0-2 in those games).

They've got 3 vs. UTA coming, 3 vs. PHO, 2 vs. LAC, 2 vs. POR. You gotta beat who you play, absolutely true. And Lakers have done a better job of winning their easy games than any other team. But this will take care of itself as far as team records go in a few months.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by tjforce

Current West Standings:

Warriors 7th
Nuggets 8th
Memphis 9th
Mavericks 10th.

You have Steph, Jokic, and Luka all in the playoff round.

And that is why none of them could be considered MVP right now. Their teams don't stand out from each other and they all just cancel each other out *at the moment*.

I don't think it's quite that simple, because teams have played unequal schedules (as NeedChapman notes), so you know the standings are going to change quite a bit.

The question is how to balance individual stats/achievement versus value to the team.

Lilliard and Curry are without question the most valuable to their teams, because injuries have left them pretty much carrying their teams singlehandedly. And Portland is exceeding expectations as well.

Jokic is in the mix, but the Nuggets are slightly underperforming expectations, and he's got Murray as a sidekick.

LeBron has AD (even though he's hurt now).

Embiid has Simmons.

Giannis has Middleton.

So while there are quite a few very strong candidates with excellent arguments, right now my pick would be Lilliard. Because what he's done with Portland in the absence of Nurkic and McCollum is pretty amazing. Portland is 10-5 since McCollum went down, including six away wins.

[yiguiri2002]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Well this is why it's somewhat silly to base MVP rankings off of team performance this early on. (And as a whole, team performance in general).

Lakers have played the top 4 seeds in the west (other than themselves) 3 times so far. Nuggets have played them 8 times so far. In addition, Denver has played Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Philly and Boston all on the road already. Dallas has a similarly tough SoS, as does Memphis. The balance to start the year is a bit off.

By the end of the year, the schedules will align. Does that mean Doncic beating up on Detroit twice, Washington twice, OKC 3 times in the second half means he's more deserving of MVP? Meh. The counter argument of course is does it elevate Jokic MVP status now because his #'s are against the good teams? LAL twice / UTA twice / PHO three times / LAC / MIL / BOS / BKN / PHI? Also meh.

I think early on, team performance is less of a thing and individual performance is more of a thing. Again though, it all aligns on the last game of the year, so then records will carry some weight. They just don't carry much now because a lot of schedules are out of whack.

Remaining SoS. This plays well for Giannis as well.

I agree with you on the premise that the Lakers have played an easy schedule and might not be as good as their record.

But which of the big MVP candidates can catch up? Even with a softer schedule, I can't see Curry, Luka or Jokic being within 3 games of the Lakers by year end. Giannis has (specially when Jrue comes back) but he's not winning 3 in a row.

Best chances are Portland (I can't believe they are 4th without CJ) and Clippers. I can't see the Lakers being 4th.

That's why I think the only guys able to beat LeBron at this stage are Embiid, Kawhi and Dame. Embiid has the best chance - a 1st seed with a similar record to the Lakers should get it done.

[tjforce]

I get the SOS thing.. but despite that, it's pretty clear that the 22-7 Lakers have been a better team than the 13-15 Mavericks. They have beat them head to head, as well.

Obviously, there's a lot of season left, and things, will change, but as Bill Parcells said, "You are your record". You can't just ignore a 6, 7, or 8 game lead in the standings 30 games into the year.

And keep in mind, historically, MVP goes to a player on one of the top teams. Players on teams that are on the playoff bubble typically don't win MVP.

[Spacemanspif]

Originally Posted by tjforce

I get the SOS thing.. but despite that, it's pretty clear that the 22-7 Lakers have been a better team than the 13-15 Mavericks. They have beat them head to head, as well.

Obviously, there's a lot of season left, and things, will change, but as Bill Parcells said, "You are your record". You can't just ignore a 6, 7, or 8 game lead in the standings 30 games into the year.

And keep in mind, historically, MVP goes to a player on one of the top teams. Players on teams that are on the playoff bubble typically don't win MVP.

Sure, but what happens if say, no team emerges as the clear #1 seed? right now you're looking at one upper tier of UTA / LA / LA, and a 2nd tier of POR / PHO / GSW / DEN / DAL (I personally don't like what I see out of DAL but they are included just to not get spammed by the Lukaboiz). Let's say T1 is all within a couple games of each other, and then a 3-5 game drop, and T2 is all within 2-3 games. If Jokic makes it to the 4-5 seed and only 3-4 games behind LeBron in the standings, his statistical greatness coupled with LeBron having AD has to make it a serious consideration right? Also not sure what happens if UTA starts creating major separation. If they're #1 by a solid 5 games by season end, do you even put Mitchell or Gobert in the conversation?

[eastbayak]

Trail Blazers have Simons, Melo and Hood coming off the bench.

Warriors played Mychal Mulder and Juan Toscano-Anderson (6'6" and played the 5), two undrafted players, in last night's starting lineup. 4 of the 9 players used in last night's game (and most games this season) are undrafted players.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Trail Blazers because what Lillard is doing is amazing. I'm only trying to shine some light on what Curry is doing with the Warriors because his situation is rougher than most give him credit for. Remember, he was basically out last season due to injury so he's playing with a pretty new (roster-wise) team. Usually, that takes some time to develop chemistry. Additionally, this year, he's often been playing with a starting lineup that's missing 2-3 of the intended starters (Klay, Wiseman, Draymond).

Fortunately, Draymond/Wiseman/Looney will be returning soon so the Dubs will have some rim presence again (as well as a real 5 [applying to the latter 2]).

Also, they lost 3 games by <=5 points this month. I know many teams lose close games, the Dubs have won a couple of nail-bitters too. But, had they won those 3 games, they'd be 19-10 instead of 16-13. Then they'd have a better record than the Trail Blazers.

At the end of the day, I'm just happy to see the Dubs playing competitively because it was rough watching them last year (with Klay AND Curry being out).

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

Sure, but what happens if say, no team emerges as the clear #1 seed? right now you're looking at one upper tier of UTA / LA / LA, and a 2nd tier of POR / PHO / GSW / DEN / DAL (I personally don't like what I see out of DAL but they are included just to not get spammed by the Lukaboiz). Let's say T1 is all within a couple games of each other, and then a 3-5 game drop, and T2 is all within 2-3 games. If Jokic makes it to the 4-5 seed and only 3-4 games behind LeBron in the standings, his statistical greatness coupled with LeBron having AD has to make it a serious consideration right? Also not sure what happens if UTA starts creating major separation. If they're #1 by a solid 5 games by season end, do you even put Mitchell or Gobert in the conversation?

That's a lot of 'ifs'.

We are nowhere near that right now. There is such a massive gap between 22-7 (and especially 24-5) and 13-15. It's the difference between a team that performed to it's full potential, and a team that has flopped.

But if we just want to pretend that seeds 1-6 wind up within 6 games of each other at the end of the year, record becomes the differentiator between the premier players.

First you look at who the actual best performing players are. If it's close, then record separates them.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Trail Blazers have Simons, Melo and Hood coming off the bench.

Warriors played Mychal Mulder and Juan Toscano-Anderson (6'6" and played the 5), two undrafted players, in last night's starting lineup. 4 of the 9 players used in last night's game (and most games this season) are undrafted players.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Trail Blazers because what Lillard is doing is amazing. I'm only trying to shine some light on what Curry is doing with the Warriors because his situation is rougher than most give him credit for. Remember, he was basically out last season due to injury so he's playing with a pretty new (roster-wise) team. Usually, that takes some time to develop chemistry. Additionally, this year, he's often been playing with a starting lineup that's missing 2-3 of the intended starters (Klay, Wiseman, Draymond).

Fortunately, Draymond/Wiseman/Looney will be returning soon so the Dubs will have some rim presence again (as well as a real 5 [applying to the latter 2]).

Also, they lost 3 games by <=5 points this month. I know many teams lose close games, the Dubs have won a couple of nail-bitters too. But, had they won those 3 games, they'd be 19-10 instead of 16-13. Then they'd have a better record than the Trail Blazers.

At the end of the day, I'm just happy to see the Dubs playing competitively because it was rough watching them last year (with Klay AND Curry being out).

This cuts both ways.

3 of their first 7 wins were by 2 or less. So by the same logic they could be 13-16 instead of 16-13.

I do agree with your last paragraph though. I'm not even a fan, but it's nice seeing them play well without a super team roster.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by tjforce

This cuts both ways.

3 of their first 7 wins were by 2 or less. So by the same logic they could be 13-16 instead of 16-13.

I do agree with your last paragraph though. I'm not even a fan, but it's nice seeing them play well without a super team roster.

Very true. Their record could be much worse than it currently is.

Haha yeah, it's nice to see them playing as they are. They've already accumulated more wins this season (16) than last season (15).