SGC Grading

[grade]

Originally Posted by Giroux

Was able to acquire a Grail Card. Back from SGC in the new slab a few days ago.

Nice card.

[inaka]

I have a quick question about SGC grading and autos.
I know they will only grade the auto if it's a 10, otherwise omit the grade, but does that only quality for cards with "Topps Certified Autos" or the like? (Cards already with verified autographs from the company)

Does SGC grade an on-card in-person auto?

I have this card that Curt Flood autographed when I was a kid:



It's a low grade card, and yes, he autographed it with a ball point pen, but the card is a sentimental one to me as I got to meet the man, and he signed it in front of me and was really kind to me as a kid.

I wanted to have to slabbed, and I use SGC for vintage.

If I submit this, will SGC grade the auto?

Any help is appreciated, thanks.

[Giroux]

Originally Posted by inaka

I have a quick question about SGC grading and autos.

I know they will only grade the auto if it's a 10, otherwise omit the grade, but does that only quality for cards with "Topps Certified Autos" or the like? (Cards already with verified autographs from the company)



Does SGC grade an on-card in-person auto?



I have this card that Curt Flood autographed when I was a kid:







It's a low grade card, and yes, he autographed it with a ball point pen, but the card is a sentimental one to me as I got to meet the man, and he signed it in front of me and was really kind to me as a kid.



I wanted to have to slabbed, and I use SGC for vintage.



If I submit this, will SGC grade the auto?



Any help is appreciated, thanks.

SGC no longer authenticates those kind of autos

[inaka]

Originally Posted by Giroux

SGC no longer authenticates those kind of autos

Bummer. That's what I suspected.
Thanks for the info.

[hammerva]

Got my second submission from SGC this morning. Only took 18 days from submission to delivery which is great.

Unfortunately my submission didn't turn out great. While my 2004 Upper Deck Rookie Premiere Ben, Rivers, and Eli RC got from 9.5 to 10; I had an epic fail on my 2018 AEW All In MJF and Britt Baker cards getting a 8.5. Feels like the gap from 9 to 8.5 in these cards is huge for these

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by hammerva

Got my second submission from SGC this morning. Only took 18 days from submission to delivery which is great.

Unfortunately my submission didn't turn out great. While my 2004 Upper Deck Rookie Premiere Ben, Rivers, and Eli RC got from 9.5 to 10; I had an epic fail on my 2018 AEW All In MJF and Britt Baker cards getting a 8.5. Feels like the gap from 9 to 8.5 in these cards is huge for these

SGC are some of the toughest graders in the biz. 10’s are earned. They’re particularly tough on centering, which I love since centering is my big bugaboo. If you stick with them, you’ll learn to really appreciate the 10’s you get.

[Ericc5Bears]

What has gotten into SGC lately? My last 2 orders:

(2 Cards):
Received- 6/14
Graded- 6/17

(26 cards):
Received- 6/22
Graded- 6/24

Both orders were at the regular $30 per card service level, grading 26 cards within 48 hours of them arriving is insane, I think that order was faster than the PSA walkthrough submission I did a few weeks ago.

[BoKnowsCards]

Originally Posted by Ericc5Bears

What has gotten into SGC lately? My last 2 orders:

(2 Cards):
Received- 6/14
Graded- 6/17

(26 cards):
Received- 6/22
Graded- 6/24

Both orders were at the regular $30 per card service level, grading 26 cards within 48 hours of them arriving is insane, I think that order was faster than the PSA walkthrough submission I did a few weeks ago.

That's great turnaround. My guess is the opening of $30 Value with PSA for 1996 and later has decreased subs to SGC. Once PSA opens up Value for 1995 and earlier as well, SGC will have no choice but to lower prices. If they are both the same price, you sub to PSA 99.9% of the time unless you like the SGC slab for a PC item.

The gravy train is over for any non-PSA grading company. They will have to lower prices sooner than later or the demand will plummet and they will go out of business.

[DetroitTN]

Originally Posted by Ericc5Bears

What has gotten into SGC lately? My last 2 orders:

(2 Cards):
Received- 6/14
Graded- 6/17

(26 cards):
Received- 6/22
Graded- 6/24

Both orders were at the regular $30 per card service level, grading 26 cards within 48 hours of them arriving is insane, I think that order was faster than the PSA walkthrough submission I did a few weeks ago.

Hopefully it means they have no business to speak of and will have to lower prices significantly

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by DetroitTN

Hopefully it means they have no business to speak of and will have to lower prices significantly

Predicted many months ago.

I know folks want to use this as evidence of expanded operational capacity. The truth is TA times increase when demand craters for a product or service, in this case, due to a competitor re-opening.

Looking forward to $10 grading. They will need it to compete with the two other companies beating them.

[DetroitTN]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Predicted many months ago.

I know folks want to use this as evidence of expanded operational capacity. The truth is TA times increase when demand craters for a product or service, in this case, due to a competitor re-opening.

Looking forward to $10 grading. They will need it to compete with the two other companies beating them.

They could probably undercut the competition harshly and swiftly if they suddenly cut their prices to $10. CSG would have no chance of surviving given they just raised prices. It'll make PSA have to do something similar, get another backlog, and stay 8 months behind. Beckett will continue to exist on a ventilator. GMA drops to $5 per card for the low value/ sentimental junk wax/ commons/ base/ fan favorite/ blue collar player cards. HGA will be dust. TAG never leaves the runway. SGC might not maximize profits this way, but they could maximize damage to the competition. Flood the market with their image and look like the good guys who dropped prices the most for collectors. Their reputation is already high, this could push them to the top.

Just a prediction

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by DetroitTN

They could probably undercut the competition harshly and swiftly if they suddenly cut their prices to $10. CSG would have no chance of surviving given they just raised prices. It'll make PSA have to do something similar, get another backlog, and stay 8 months behind. Beckett will continue to exist on a ventilator. GMA drops to $5 per card for the low value/ sentimental junk wax/ commons/ base/ fan favorite/ blue collar player cards. HGA will be dust. TAG never leaves the runway. SGC might not maximize profits this way, but they could maximize damage to the competition. Flood the market with their image and look like the good guys who dropped prices the most for collectors. Their reputation is already high, this could push them to the top.

Just a prediction

Agree. That is indeed there only play to remain viable

[grade]

Originally Posted by DetroitTN

They could probably undercut the competition harshly and swiftly if they suddenly cut their prices to $10. CSG would have no chance of surviving given they just raised prices. It'll make PSA have to do something similar, get another backlog, and stay 8 months behind. Beckett will continue to exist on a ventilator. GMA drops to $5 per card for the low value/ sentimental junk wax/ commons/ base/ fan favorite/ blue collar player cards. HGA will be dust. TAG never leaves the runway. SGC might not maximize profits this way, but they could maximize damage to the competition. Flood the market with their image and look like the good guys who dropped prices the most for collectors. Their reputation is already high, this could push them to the top.

Just a prediction

Perfectly said.

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Agree. That is indeed there only play to remain viable

The fact SGC and PSA are the same price, turn around time still better with SGC, I would only use PSA because the values of 10’s are still very different.

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

The fact SGC and PSA are the same price, turn around time still better with SGC, I would only use PSA because the values of 10’s are still very different.

But that’s the important part. People realize that and don’t want to send to SGC because their slab does not create value at $30. PSA is struggling to create value at $30. SGC can create value at $10 or less. At that point, their volume will increase and they can sustain a viable business where their is a value proposition

[DetroitTN]

Hopefully they somehow read this and agree

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

But that’s the important part. People realize that and don’t want to send to SGC because their slab does not create value at $30. PSA is struggling to create value at $30. SGC can create value at $10 or less. At that point, their volume will increase and they can sustain a viable business where their is a value proposition

Is volume really the most important thing? If they are getting 80,000 cards a month and having the best TAT's in the industry at $30 card, is it really worth lowering prices? Their capacity is about 100,000 cards per month. I know you can get bulk for $23, so let's assume all cards are being graded at that point. 23 x 80,000 = $1.84 million per month. If they lowered prices to $15 and used full capacity, that would be $1.5 million per month. SGC doesn't want a back log, so there is absolutely no reason for them to decrease prices at this point. When they need cards, they will lower prices. However, even at below capacity, they are doing fine. No need to lower prices at this point.

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Is volume really the most important thing? If they are getting 80,000 cards a month and having the best TAT's in the industry at $30 card, is it really worth lowering prices? Their capacity is about 100,000 cards per month. I know you can get bulk for $23, so let's assume all cards are being graded at that point. 23 x 80,000 = $1.84 million per month. If they lowered prices to $15 and used full capacity, that would be $1.5 million per month. SGC doesn't want a back log, so there is absolutely no reason for them to decrease prices at this point. When they need cards, they will lower prices. However, even at below capacity, they are doing fine. No need to lower prices at this point.

Depends on how you look at it. You can look at it that way, similar to a hair stylist who says, is it worth cutting my prices by 50% only to double my volume while working twice as hard and generating the same revenue. Doesn’t make sense.

But if PSA owns 80-90% of the market, and your primary competition for #2 (CSG) is half of your price and the majority of your business went to them or back to PSA, your long term brand viability is in jeopardy. Every company not named PSA is going to have cratering revenues in 2023. These companies battling for #2 in market share better be positioning themselves for that #2 spot knowing that the revenue is going to crash. Demand has already crashed. Do
They want to wait until everyone feels comfortable submitting their low end junk to CSG and the graders desks are collecting dust before being forced to lower prices or while the TA times for bulk are at 1 week, they make
The move.

Choice is theres:
1) keep prices the same and risk being #3 or #4 forever or
2) lower prices, sacrifice revenue in the short term, because long term it’s going to PSA anyway, and position yourself favorably for viability for the future

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Choice is theres:
1) keep prices the same and risk being #3 or #4 forever or
2) lower prices, sacrifice revenue in the short term, because long term it’s going to PSA anyway, and position yourself favorably for viability for the future

SGC's whole business model right now is based on turn-around times, which can't be sacrificed with drastically lowering prices. SGC will always be somewhere around #3 forever. Their slabs are too different for them to be #1 or #2. 50% plus of people grading will not use SGC because of their tuxedo look.

In 2023, it really doesn't matter what SGC does now for the future. With PSA able to accept 600,000 plus extra cards a month in October, every grading company will be in big trouble. Right now, including PSA, people are submitting around 500,000 cards per month. When PSA finishes their backlog, we will go from 500,000 capacity to well over a million with all grading companies. Lowering prices right now won't do a damn thing for SGC's future unless we have another card boom like in 2021.

[imbluestreak23]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

SGC's whole business model right now is based on turn-around times, which can't be sacrificed with drastically lowering prices. SGC will always be somewhere around #3 forever. Their slabs are too different for them to be #1 or #2. 50% plus of people grading will not use SGC because of their tuxedo look.

In 2023, it really doesn't matter what SGC does now for the future. With PSA able to accept 600,000 plus extra cards a month in October, every grading company will be in big trouble. Right now, including PSA, people are submitting around 500,000 cards per month. When PSA finishes their backlog, we will go from 500,000 capacity to well over a million with all grading companies. Lowering prices right now won't do a damn thing for SGC's future unless we have another card boom like in 2021.

They will be a dinosaur if they don’t lower prices. Trust me. $15 CSG will be TAd in < 3-4 weeks once PSA is fully opened. The battle for #2 #3 in market share will get bloody

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

They will be a dinosaur if they don’t lower prices. Trust me. $15 CSG will be TAd in < 3-4 weeks once PSA is fully opened. The battle for #2 #3 in market share will get bloody

2023 will be a blood bath for all grading companies, even PSA. As a collector I am looking forward to the cheaper prices, but we will see some negatives out of it as well. If companies are desperate for cards, will we see inflated grades? Easy to give out harsh grades right now when you are at capacity, but when companies get desperate to stay in business, they will start to sacrifice their morals for survival. CSG already stated they were grading surface too hard and relaxed their centering grades. People love 10's and grading companies will have to give more to get more cards.

I am hoping SGC can exist at 50,000 cards a month at $15 in 2023, because I don't see them getting more than that. I gave up on them decreasing prices, so I am sending another 80 cards to CSG on Monday. I thought we would see a price decrease already, but I don't see it happening for many months. For $10.80 a card, I will go with CSG and then hold the rest of my cards for mid-2023 when the great grading chaos era unfolds.

[DetroitTN]

Lowering your price before everyone else forces you to do so is good for public image. Positive advertising without the billboards. It gives the perception they're on the side of the customers, when it's really just a form of indirect advertising and a marketing ploy. Obviously SGC is a decent business, but these are things they teach in business school to grow your company. With the grading future right around the corner, all things should be considered, especially when you can rob customers away from your competition.

PSA lowered to $30. Customer Bobby Joe is getting ready to send to PSA now, but wait, SGC just lowered their price to $12. Bobby Joe ships to SGC instead. SGC just stole a customer away, made money, and formed a bond with someone who otherwise wouldn't have used their services

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by DetroitTN

PSA lowered to $30. Customer Bobby Joe is getting ready to send to PSA now, but wait, SGC just lowered their price to $12. Bobby Joe ships to SGC instead. SGC just stole a customer away, made money, and formed a bond with someone who otherwise wouldn't have used their services

Then SGC misses turnaround times, has a backlog, and their current customer base gets pissed off like they did in 2020. You gain a collector at $12 and lose a current submitter expecting less than a month turnaround time. We will see small decreases in prices from SGC, but nothing dramatic. They use pricing to not go above their 20-25 TAT. We might see $25 and $18 through a bulk submitter in the next few months, but that is that. Opening the flood gates with $12 pricing won't happen unless things get desperate on SGC's end.

[The_Reverend]

The roi for SGC and CSG are getting closer for some cards, not vintage, and CSG TAT at 12 and soon 15 dollars beats SGC at 20-25 days. There are more and more people, myself included are turning to CSG for low/mid cards and my KIRILL KAPRIZOV pC.

[DetroitTN]

Originally Posted by The_Reverend

The roi for SGC and CSG are getting closer for some cards, not vintage, and CSG TAT at 12 and soon 15 dollars beats SGC at 20-25 days. There are more and more people, myself included are turning to CSG for low/mid cards and my KIRILL KAPRIZOV pC.

SGC isn't even an option for their cost in my opinion. PSA for top dollar on things that are doubtful to depreciate during the wait time, CSG, in spite of the price hike, for other stuff. SGC is falling into no man's land