2022 Topps Chrome Baseball Pre Sale.. thoughts?

[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Agreed, but they owed their customers an explanation.

The explanation doesn't matter. The product was released, it was full of rookie cards according to traditional hobby definitions. They just didn't have the shiny RC logo on them. But the cards were released, and that was the biggest problem for Fanatics.

The only explanation that we needed was their actions with 21 Bowman Heritage. By memory holing it, we know exactly why it was canned - they didn't want to release another 50-100 rookie cards after 21BB had most of the big name rookie cards in it.

[1800gambler]

Originally Posted by 1800gambler

When they announced the checklist last week, with the J-Rod, Witt, Tork, Abrams rookie SP’s, wouldn’t the product have been packed out at that point or at least in the midst of being packed out so they’d know what’s going into it. I get it that the checklist is subject to change but isn’t that just unabashed lying since they had already (I assume) finished packing it? Doesn’t feel like they had enough time from when they announced it last week to still releasing today to be still making changes, then packing, then shipping, no?

And to just finish my thought… let’s say they really did make a last second change after the announcement and before packing out… When it did eventually ship, Topps for sure knew what changes were made, and who/what was packed in the product. They did not say anything, they knew they lead people to believe those were in there and didn’t want to tank the release so they consciously made the decision not make any correction or even hint at it. It was deceitful, predatory, greedy, bitch ass move. F Topps…

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

The explanation doesn't matter. The product was released, it was full of rookie cards according to traditional hobby definitions. They just didn't have the shiny RC logo on them. But the cards were released, and that was the biggest problem for Fanatics.

The only explanation that we needed was their actions with 21 Bowman Heritage. By memory holing it, we know exactly why it was canned - they didn't want to release another 50-100 rookie cards after 21BB had most of the big name rookie cards in it.

Pump your breaks, I'm a BBer. No need to hash out the same arguments for the 10,000th time, particularly with someone who agrees with you.

Topps intentionally created an uproar with BB and Bowman Heritage and never addressed it. That shows a complete disregard for their customer base.

Like that situation, Topps is most likely going to ignore the Chrome false advertising.

[SmokeyJ]

Originally Posted by yodastories

This is why they should package wax more like the McDLT.

I just have to acknowledge any post that pulls up such an odd reference as the McDLT. Love it.

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[SupermanBrandon]

Topps has the hobby's best interest at heart. I can only follow their lead when it comes to what is or isnt a rookie. They dont care about money...they care about us.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

Imagine a world where folks are focused on a release from last year for the rookie cards of today, tomorrow, and 5 years from now. A release that was well received at the time, no QC issues, and printed in much smaller quantities than the bloated numbers of 2022 S1 and 2022 TC.

How could Fanatics sell any new releases at the rates they've been selling them? What would happen to preorder prices?

The switch will happen at some point, eventually people will get so tired of releases like this that they will no longer let Fanatics/Topps lead them by the nose and tell them what rookie cards are and what they should be collecting.

There will be a lot more carnage like this along the way though.

You realize it was Topps responsible for the BB numbering right?

[rwperu34]

Print run estimations based on Purple /250 from;

Jumbo

160,000 base
8,000 refractors

Retail

180,000 base
15,000 refractor

Both tell a similar story on base, but pretty big variance on refractors. Just need hobby odds now.

[mikejones]

Just watched real breaks recap 3 cases. Best card was wander prism and wander blue wave. Lol

[jcfill]

Originally Posted by OneSickDegen

Can we get a moment of silence for all the breakers who gonna be bagholding this turd?

Not if they don’t tell the people buying in. I’d be willing to bet a good majority of people don’t even realize this fiasco is going on

[sandyfrank]

I am very disappointed in the release and it is now very clear there are no Rookie SP variations in Hobby or Jumbo. For Topps to put them on a checklist is even more disappointing and I have lost a pretty big slice of what little faith I still had in them. I thankfully did not buy any jumbo or hobby boxes but was very tempted to do so when seeing the checklist including the SP RCs. I did buy into some breaks and did ok but was hoping for an actual legit chance at hitting one of the cool SP RC.

I do want to add to the discussion that while I understand certain individuals REALLY REALLY want to hype up 2021 Bowman's Best, those certain prospect cards will never be accepted by 99% of the hobby as Rookie Cards. But it is fun seeing the effort.

[CxL]

Blue Jrod auto sold for 3.8k

[clocsta2323]

When Oneil Cruz hits are whats being shown off you know this product is an abject failure.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Topps has the hobby's best interest at heart. I can only follow their lead when it comes to what is or isnt a rookie. They dont care about money...they care about us.

Caring about money is fine and to be expected. Intentionally deceiving customers to sell more product isn't.

[ChefCurry312]

Originally Posted by 1800gambler

When they announced the checklist last week, with the J-Rod, Witt, Tork, Abrams rookie SP’s, wouldn’t the product have been packed out at that point or at least in the midst of being packed out so they’d know what’s going into it. I get it that the checklist is subject to change but isn’t that just unabashed lying since they had already (I assume) finished packing it? Doesn’t feel like they had enough time from when they announced it last week to still releasing today to be still making changes, then packing, then shipping, no?

That would've required them to make an announcement and edit the checklist PDF. I feel like that's asking for too much from Topps. It's really hard to edit a PDF and they only had a week /s

[anusinha]

Watch this end up like a Frank Thomas NNO where all the RC SPs end up in hanger boxes sent to random Barnes and Nobles in New Mexico.

[Checkdasneaks]

Picked up an Orange /25 Alek Thomas on eBay tonight. Cost me about as much as 3 blasters. I think I’m done with Topps chrome now.


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[kyle121592]

Looks like Fanatics is off on the right foot...things are looking up!

[Greenbee]

Maybe the julio and witt are in lite boxes. If so, do they make black & white mini diamonds of SP cards?

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by CxL

Blue Jrod auto sold for 3.8k

Someone overpaid


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[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Pump your breaks, I'm a BBer. No need to hash out the same arguments for the 10,000th time, particularly with someone who agrees with you.

Topps intentionally created an uproar with BB and Bowman Heritage and never addressed it. That shows a complete disregard for their customer base.

Like that situation, Topps is most likely going to ignore the Chrome false advertising.

It shows they didn't want to acknowledge the product in any way.

Ostensibly because Topps screwed over Fanatics with that checklist on the way out the door.

[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

You realize it was Topps responsible for the BB numbering right?

Of course. See above.

[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by sandyfrank

I am very disappointed in the release and it is now very clear there are no Rookie SP variations in Hobby or Jumbo. For Topps to put them on a checklist is even more disappointing and I have lost a pretty big slice of what little faith I still had in them. I thankfully did not buy any jumbo or hobby boxes but was very tempted to do so when seeing the checklist including the SP RCs. I did buy into some breaks and did ok but was hoping for an actual legit chance at hitting one of the cool SP RC.

I do want to add to the discussion that while I understand certain individuals REALLY REALLY want to hype up 2021 Bowman's Best, those certain prospect cards will never be accepted by 99% of the hobby as Rookie Cards. But it is fun seeing the effort.

In the late 90s basketball collectors said Topps Finest was "the" Kobe RC to own.

Things change.

Rookie cards existed before, during, and even without RC logos from Topps.

If you want to say that 99% of the hobby doesn't know what a rookie card is, you might be right. I just saw a guy's website last night with "best J-Rod rookie cards" and 4 out of the 10 "top" JRod rookies had no RC logo, 3 were direct from the Topps website and 1 was from the industry conference.

21BB did not make his list lol.

[Dalston]

Originally Posted by BigSeph

In the late 90s basketball collectors said Topps Finest was "the" Kobe RC to own.

Things change.

Rookie cards existed before, during, and even without RC logos from Topps.

If you want to say that 99% of the hobby doesn't know what a rookie card is, you might be right. I just saw a guy's website last night with "best J-Rod rookie cards" and 4 out of the 10 "top" JRod rookies had no RC logo, 3 were direct from the Topps website and 1 was from the industry conference.

21BB did not make his list lol.

Things do indeed change. But not always in your favor.

I have no dog in this fight, but cannot see any reason why the Kobe argument you have posted at least twice in the last 24 hours means it is more likely that BB21 attains main rookie card status in the Hobby. I'm open to the possibility, but seems like the most likely outcome is that it retains a curiosity status in the hobby and the number of people that advocate for it being the one source of true rookies for our generation dwindles over time.

[BigSeph]

Originally Posted by Dalston

Things do indeed change. But not always in your favor.

I have no dog in this fight, but cannot see any reason why the Kobe argument you have posted at least twice in the last 24 hours means it is more likely that BB21 attains main rookie card status in the Hobby. I'm open to the possibility, but seems like the most likely outcome is that it retains a curiosity status in the hobby and the number of people that advocate for it being the one source of true rookies for our generation dwindles over time.

Literally everything you just said could apply to people holding Kobe Finest RCs, and their dismissive opinion of Topps Chrome RCs.

That's why I bring it up. Scarcity matters.

Has J-Rod had "the" card come out yet? Is it his SP'd horizontal card from S2? Is it the nonexistent SP from 2022 Topps Chrome? Or is it more likely that his 2022 Topps Update, which will be printed to the moon, becomes "the" JRod card to own?

And if it is, you don't think someone will look at 21BB as undervalued given the backstory and relative scarcity to 2022 Topps Update?

It's the same reason that Prizm fans in basketball hate Optic, it's the Panini equivalent of Topps Chrome and they go out of their way to bash Optic holo cards, which for the past few years, are much more scarce than the mass produced silver Prizm cards.

Do you know what Prizm backers say? Optic will never be "the" card to own, it will never attain main rookie card status. It will always be Prizm.

Just like the late 90s Finest guys said.

FTR I am a contrarian in all of my stock holdings, sports cards, comic books, etc. I see no value in overproduced oversold widely available products and I see great value in underappreciated assets that people sleep on.

Your opinion doesn't bother me in the slightest, I play the long game on these issues. I will have some nice 21BB Julios, Wanders, Witts, etc set aside and when that day comes I'll be ready for it. I try to alert others to the potential and explain my reasoning, but you can lead a horse to water.....

[BabaORiley]

Originally Posted by Dalston

Things do indeed change. But not always in your favor.

I have no dog in this fight, but cannot see any reason why the Kobe argument you have posted at least twice in the last 24 hours means it is more likely that BB21 attains main rookie card status in the Hobby. I'm open to the possibility, but seems like the most likely outcome is that it retains a curiosity status in the hobby and the number of people that advocate for it being the one source of true rookies for our generation dwindles over time.

This is absolutely true if none of the 30 RC subjects in 21 BB become Hobby Superstars.

The value in 21 BB lies in the probability that one or more of those 30 become generational talents/perennial all-stars/fast track future HOFers.

If Julio or Wander quickly ascend to hobby king status, you'll find collectors and investors trying to get a unique piece of that pie. While many of the 2022 releases will surge in popularity, there will always be the understanding that 2021 Bowman's Best DID happen, whether it should have or not. The relative scarcity, limited parallels and the curious circumstances around the set will stick, and like Star Jordan, Select Jeter (or even BBM Ohtani & Ichiro, USFL Steve Young) where scarcity plus the earlier release creates a fairly rabid fanbase, 2021 Bowman's Best won't just fade away. Unless none of those 30 become transformative talents...