2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Sure, I'll answer my own question because you seem lost as usual.

It was the implication that a teenager growing up in poverty in a gang-ridden area of Chicago with no familial support system, a poor public education, and a history of traumatic experiences is not properly equipped to make good moral decisions.

Or to requote myself: "THEY DON'T KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG."

You have managed to pick the smallest point to focus on, while ignoring a plethora of other information and still cannot make any type of cohesive argument. Shocking.

I don't know about this. Right or wrong is inherent.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

"Institutional racism (also known as systemic racism) is a form of racism that is embedded as normal practice within society or an organisation. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues."

Here's a good read that sites 357 sources of reference material for systemic racism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

Originally Posted by rman112

What IS systemic racism, though? It just seems like what you're saying is that any possible reason for someone to struggle through life gets smushed together to form 'systemic racism'.

Quoted my previous post for reference. I consider it a start although I'm still learning some of the issues to this day.

Originally Posted by rman112

If it's poverty, every immigrant story talks about arriving in America with little or nothing in their pockets. That's not a race thing. And hell, which immigrant population WASN'T discriminated against?

The root of today's issues is poverty (for many people, not just black people), but it's interrelated with a history of trauma and injustice in the U.S. unlike any other racial demographic except perhaps Native people, who are largely ignored in our culture.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by rman112

I don't know about this. Right or wrong is inherent.

Little kids can be mean & violent.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Or to requote myself: "THEY DON'T KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG."

Actually, your words were

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Then some random white guys in a different part of the country, with completely different life experiences say "figure it out bucko" or "why can't these kids make the right decisions?" THEY LITERALLY DON'T KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG. They're Kids that grew up in a War Zone.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Actually, your words were

Ok Tucker.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Little kids can be mean & violent.

That's not the same as not knowing right from wrong. To say that we don't know right from wrong ourselves, and that we ONLY know right from wrong from others telling us.. Nah.

[TheFrenzy]

So we can add "Kids in Chicago literally do not know right from wrong" to "I'm here to defend guys who say Hitler was right" on JoJo's list of crazy things said while trying to teach Blowout about race.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Quoted my previous post for reference. I consider it a start although I'm still learning some of the issues to this day.

You've told others that we're at fault for not understanding the issues. It can't be both.

The root of today's issues is poverty (for many people, not just black people), but it's interrelated with a history of trauma and injustice in the U.S. unlike any other racial demographic except perhaps Native people, who are largely ignored in our culture.

I don't doubt the mistreatment. But at the same time, it just seems like the type of "soft love" that's led to the lack of progress that you're speaking of right now in 2020.

All this just honestly seems futile. Black people just continue to be used as political pawns, and I think that's sad. What do you really see the BLM movement accomplishing? I see a lot of symbolism, a lot of "We need to do better". But none of that is real. None of it is tangible. And to me, that's because black people, any people, aren't just a group. It's a collection of individuals.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by rman112

That's not the same as not knowing right from wrong. To say that we don't know right from wrong ourselves, and that we ONLY know right from wrong from others telling us.. Nah.

I genuinely encourage you to read the linked wiki article if you're interested in learning some of the issues. It will be far more insightful than my words are.

Not everything is so simple. There is so much decision-making gray area in an individual situation.

Look at the George Floyd murder for example: Did the cops really try to kill him on purpose? I would sincerely hope not, but I think they definitely wanted to teach him a lesson during the arrest. Did the cops all know they were actively taking part in a murder or did they think they were doing what they were supposed to? I don't know, but clearly they made a huge mistake in judgement and those are formally trained police officers.

So can a teenager with no formal training and a history of bad influences really be expected to know when to take out a gun and try to shoot someone who he deems a threat to his safety or his ability to make money to survive?

[TheFrenzy]

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

So we can add "Kids in Chicago literally do not know right from wrong" to "I'm here to defend guys who say Hitler was right" on JoJo's list of crazy things said while trying to teach Blowout about race.

The thing I'll give Tucker Carlson credit for is that he makes a lot of money spouting lies and twisting narratives. You just do it for enjoyment.

How pathetic.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

So can a teenager with no formal training and a history of bad influences really be expected to know when to take out a gun and try to shoot someone who he deems a threat to his safety or his ability to make money to survive?

Answer: Yes

How much "formal training" do you believe people need in order to know not to commit murder?

[jdandns]

Ford V. Ferrari
Batman V. Superman
Frenz V. Jo

Epic showdown between two equally determined people.

It's what this thread was made for, but I hope at least some of you mugs posting here all the time actually buy cards from Blowout once in a while.
It's the least we can do.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Answer: Yes

How much "formal training" do you believe people need in order to know not to commit murder?

Ask Derek Chauvin

Ask Gregory McMichael

Ask Jonathan Mattingly, Brett Hankison & Myles Cosgrove

I guess they needed more "formal training"

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

They put their initial plans on hold and are sending out “registration forms” to determine if they can socially distance the total number of the students 5 days per week full time for parents who want it.

They had no idea how to answer most of the questions and clearly had spent about 2 hours thinking about what they were going to do for next year. It was a joke. The head of the board wore a full face mask for the entirety of the zoom meeting. Science apparently isn’t her strong suit, but she’s all in on fear.

“Can you socially distance 85% of the student population since that is approximately how many kids would go back full time” - We don’t know.

“What training have you given the teachers to do a full day of zoom training and distance learning for k-6 students” - None at this time.

“What evidence based practices suggest that zoom is the best option for k-6 students to distance learn” - There aren’t any.

“What criteria aren’t you looking for to transfer from your phase one plan to your second phase of back in school full time” - We haven’t determined that yet.

Well, what can I tell you?
I hope it works out the kids can get back in class as soon as possible.
Those in areas with less densely packed populations have a better chance at it, I think. Good luck.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by rman112

I don't doubt the mistreatment. But at the same time, it just seems like the type of "soft love" that's led to the lack of progress that you're speaking of right now in 2020.

All this just honestly seems futile. Black people just continue to be used as political pawns, and I think that's sad. What do you really see the BLM movement accomplishing? I see a lot of symbolism, a lot of "We need to do better". But none of that is real. None of it is tangible. And to me, that's because black people, any people, aren't just a group. It's a collection of individuals.

It's important to respect the voices of black people on the issue of racism against black people. That's my take.
Saying black people are political pawns diminishes their ability to have a voice when they're trying to spread awareness and seek changes.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

I genuinely encourage you to read the linked wiki article if you're interested in learning some of the issues. It will be far more insightful than my words are.

Not everything is so simple. There is so much decision-making gray area in an individual situation.

Look at the George Floyd murder for example: Did the cops really try to kill him on purpose? I would sincerely hope not, but I think they definitely wanted to teach him a lesson during the arrest. Did the cops all know they were actively taking part in a murder or did they think they were doing what they were supposed to? I don't know, but clearly they made a huge mistake in judgement and those are formally trained police officers.

So can a teenager with no formal training and a history of bad influences really be expected to know when to take out a gun and try to shoot someone who he deems a threat to his safety or his ability to make money to survive?

The thing about Floyd that I don't think gets talked about enough is that we don't know that he's dead because he's black. They worked at the same place. David Pinney one day says they knew each other, had a history, and that they butted heads. Then he says he had Floyd mistaken for someone else. I don't know about that one.

Your teenager anecdote.. I don't get it.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by rman112

The thing about Floyd that I don't think gets talked about enough is that we don't know that he's dead because he's black. They worked at the same place. David Pinney one day says they knew each other, had a history, and that they butted heads. Then he says he had Floyd mistaken for someone else. I don't know about that one.

Your teenager anecdote.. I don't get it.

I'm only asking why the officers didn't know right from wrong?

And further why didn't the Police department know right from wrong? Chauvin seems to have had a history of issues on the force.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

It's important to respect the voices of black people on the issue of racism against black people. That's my take.
Saying black people are political pawns diminishes their ability to have a voice when they're trying to spread awareness and seek changes.

But that's not at all what you've been saying all thread. It's been that white people are the problem, and that they don't understand. But you're white, and are also saying you don't fully understand the issues.

I absolutely do believe they're being used as political pawns.

Spreading awareness does nothing. It doesn't matter the issue. Especially one that you're saying happening TO black people, BY others.

When you say seek changes, and talk about the government, you mean seek changes THROUGH the government, right?

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

I'm only asking why the officers didn't know right from wrong?

No, you're falling back on being disingenuous again. He clearly knew right from wrong. He was being taped. He just didn't care.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by Mac302

it's pretty obvious Jopeal is trolling at this point.

TheFrenzy tried to engage him in meaningful convo but he refuses and just answers with more rubbish talk.

From way back in the DeSean Jackson "Hitler was right" thread.

So prescient Mac302. So prescient.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Ask Derek Chauvin

Ask Gregory McMichael

Ask Jonathan Mattingly, Brett Hankison & Myles Cosgrove

I guess they needed more "formal training"

You're comparing murderers to murderers?

You're either saying that both cops and non-whites should know better and therefore we should expect them to make better choices...

...or neither cops nor non-whites know right from wrong because they're all victims of the system.

Which one is it?

(I'll be honest, I have no idea why you'd choose to make this comparison. It's so bizarre. Either we're letting murder cops off the hook or we're sinking your entire argument up to this point. I don't get it.)

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by rman112

But that's not at all what you've been saying all thread. It's been that white people are the problem, and that they don't understand. But you're white, and are also saying you don't fully understand the issues.

I absolutely do believe they're being used as political pawns.

Spreading awareness does nothing. It doesn't matter the issue. Especially one that you're saying happening TO black people, BY others.

When you say seek changes, and talk about the government, you mean seek changes THROUGH the government, right?

Advocacy, Education & Government policy.

White people are not "The" problem. That's just an attempt by Conservatives to bring the dialogue back to being about white people, which it isn't.

It's a multi-layered system already in place that has been historically disadvantageous to black people, and is perpetuated by a lack of awareness & acknowledgement hence why peaceful protesting is so effective.

[Jopeal]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

You're comparing murderers to murderers?

You're either saying that both cops and non-whites should know better and therefore we should expect them to make better choices...

...or neither cops nor non-whites know right from wrong because they're all victims of the system.

Which one is it?

(I'll be honest, I have no idea why you'd choose to make this comparison. It's so bizarre. Either we're letting murder cops off the hook or we're sinking your entire argument up to this point. I don't get it.)

Cops need further education, training & psychological assistance for being in high-stress environments so they don't freak out and start killing people unnecessarily. Same with impoverished kids in Chicago with no familial support.

Both groups need assistance and government reform would be very beneficial for bringing about improvement so we can reduce violence in the country.

I can tell you struggle with comprehension.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Advocacy, Education & Government policy.

White people are not "The" problem. That's just an attempt by Conservatives to bring the dialogue back to being about white people, which it isn't.

It's a multi-layered system already in place that has been historically disadvantageous to black people, and is perpetuated by a lack of awareness & acknowledgement hence why peaceful protesting is so effective.

Again, that's not AT ALL what you've been saying all thread.

Here's the problem about the dialogue being only about black people:

1. Nothing you have said matters at all. You're white.
2. If the problems are supposed to be truly systemic, they're white against black problems, yes? So you can't then only include black voices, like the Oprah special. Nothing will get accomplished. It just created an echo chamber.

I honestly don't think peaceful protesting is as effective as you are saying. What do you think it will specifically have accomplished? Say 1 year, 5 years, 10 years from now? Again, all I've seen from protests is BLM symbolism, and a whole lot of buzzwords and phrases. If there are to be changes, they need to be a hell of a lot better than that.