PWCC Altered Cards Callout Thread - 1952 Topps Mantle etc

[Giancarlo27]

The extent of the fraud is indeed disheartening, but perhaps the saddest part about of all of this is the mutilation of these beautiful pieces of cardboard history. That Jackie was a gorgeous example of the most iconic card of one of the most iconic players of all time and now it's been ruined in the name of greed and deception.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by signed79

Based on just the increase alone, and an average 10% commission, that's close to $60,000 in Brent's pocket for what's been uncovered in this thread (again, just the increase). Add the actual sales amount and Brent brought in $120,000 to $150,000 in commission revenue while peddling and misrepresenting vandalized collectibles. If he's working with Moser on the fraud, which evidence points in that direction, I'd imagine he's making a lot more than just the commission he charges.

It’s also possible these cards are increasing FOMO and having the affect of raising prices on cards with a lower grade.

People see cards selling for big bucks causing a “trickle-down affect” on everything because a rising tide lifts all boats.

If everyone only knew...

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by pspa123

I see it as a disclosure issue. If it's appropriately designated as altered, I don't have a problem with that.

If they missed it once they will miss it again. I agree with Dan.

[CaptSpaulding]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I suspect Brent is taking more than his standard commission fees with Moser. Moser may not even be paying for the cards. Brent could be fronting the cost and then paying Moser some percentage of the profit they realize after the altered cards are resold.

Bingo. No other way to explain the disproportionately high percentage of eye appeal certified cards in Moser's PSA submisisons. In addition with as many cards as Moser buys from Brent, Brent has to be signaling to him to buy certain cards as well. And let's not forget allowing him to shill bid his own consignments.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #41822199

1965 Topps Mantle, Killebrew & Robinson RBI Leaders #5

Value gain of $3,448.92

This card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) from PWCC as a PSA-9 on November 15, 2017 for $561.08. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1574718
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-10 for $4,010.00 on October 18, 2018. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1840394

[B]Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers.
I cannot see what was done to bump the card to a 10. The bottom left corner (back view) looks sharper. The image resolutions are too different. Adding to the list because it's a Moser handled card.

[Doublexthebeast]

Raise your hand if you get excited when you see that Corndog was the last one that posted in the thread.

[corndog]

Originally Posted by CaptSpaulding

Bingo. No other way to explain the disproportionately high percentage of eye appeal certified cards in Moser's PSA submisisons. In addition with as many cards as Moser buys from Brent, Brent has to be signaling to him to buy certain cards as well. And let's not forget allowing him to shill bid his own consignments.

This^^^^^

Yesterday I ran across a string of Moser buys that were 1952 to 1953 Topps and Bowmans. I didn't post them due to the grade remaining the same or getting a 1 point bump from 7 to 8 or 8 to 9. I couldn't see anything done to the card but ALMOST EVERY ONE of those cards received a sticker the 2nd time. It is a definite pattern to maximize profits.

[NoleinJax]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I suspect Brent is taking more than his standard commission fees with Moser. Moser may not even be paying for the cards. Brent could be fronting the cost and then paying Moser some percentage of the profit they realize after the altered cards are resold.

Since Brent personally inspects every card over $250, part of his duties could be to spot cards he thinks are either undergraded and/or cards that have issues that are easily "conserved" to increase the grade for sale later. He then passes this info to Moser to bid on the cards Brent deems worthy of "conservation".

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by corndog

This^^^^^

Yesterday I ran across a string of Moser buys that were 1952 to 1953 Topps and Bowmans. I didn't post them due to the grade remaining the same or getting a 1 point bump from 7 to 8 or 8 to 9. I couldn't see anything done to the card but ALMOST EVERY ONE of those cards received a sticker the 2nd time. It is a definite pattern to maximize profits.

But he doesn't know whose cards they are when he assigns the stickers.

Bridge for sale, any takers?

[towerymt]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Agreed. Destruction is the only answer.

Hole punch. Slab 'Authentic'. Just like my old passport that just came back from State Dept.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #40927100

1909-11 T206 Ambrose Puttmann - Piedmont 350

Value gain of $710.19

This card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) from PWCC as a PSA-6 on November 12, 2017 for $315.01. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1571198
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-6.5 for $1,025.20 on July 08, 2018. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1686766

Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers.
Red squares identify cleaning on back and what looks to be on the front too.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #41822201

1965 Topps Toe Blake #1

Value gain of $1,801.48

This card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) from PWCC as a PSA-8 on May 29, 2018 for $326.52. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1663491
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-9 for $2,128.00 on October 28, 2018. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1819344

Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers.
Red squares identify color added to the solid black at bottom front and an attempt to clean spots on the back.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

People see cards selling for big bucks causing a “trickle-down affect” on everything because a rising tide lifts all boats.

If everyone only knew...

+1 -- It's not just the damage to these cards themselves, it's the effect on the market for all of our cards caused by the exorbitant prices being paid for the doctored ones. Initially the tide may have been rising, but if enough collectors get scared away from buying this stuff -- at least until they build a better grading "mousetrap" -- the prices will all come crashing down.

For the time being, however, it appears that enough people who don't know or don't care are keeping the market afloat.

[SetBuilder]

Trimming, re-coloring, and chemical cleaning are the worst types of alterations. Especially chemical cleaning, where the long-term effects are unknown and the card could continue to fade over the years.

However, the red Cobb T206 above looks like it was cracked out of the slab and soaked to remove the old scrapbook paper. I've purchased raw T206 cards with paper stuck to the back and I've had good success cleanly removing the paper from some of the cards. Often the paper is lightly stuck to the card and will float to the top when soaked for a few minutes in warm, filtered or distilled water.

The previous owner chose not to do it, but I don't think that's a bad thing for the new owner to do for a grade bump.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Trimming, re-coloring, and chemical cleaning are the worst types of alterations. Especially chemical cleaning, where the long-term effects are unknown and the card could continue to fade over the years.

However, the red Cobb T206 above looks like it was cracked out of the slab and soaked to remove the old scrapbook paper. I've purchased raw T206 cards with paper stuck to the back and I've had good success cleanly removing the paper from some of the cards. Often the paper is lightly stuck to the card and will float to the top when soaked for a few minutes in warm, filtered or distilled water.

The previous owner chose not to do it, but I don't think that's a bad thing for the new owner to do for a grade bump.

Hey "Manny" signed T206 fraud finder- is that you? Long time no see.

Except here the doctor scraped the bottom left of the back off, and managed to press and color at least the top two corner creases/damage.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

+1 -- It's not just the damage to these cards themselves, it's the effect on the market for all of our cards caused by the exorbitant prices being paid for the doctored ones. Initially the tide may have been rising, but if enough collectors get scared away from buying this stuff -- at least until they build a better grading "mousetrap" -- the prices will all come crashing down.

For the time being, however, it appears that enough people who don't know or don't care are keeping the market afloat.

It is more like people that are heavily invested in high grade cards are keeping the market afloat. We saw this a few years ago with certain rookie cards that were being manipulated. It is in their financial interest to bid up cards that they already own so it doesn't appear their cards are worth less.

[corndog]

PSA Cert #41822202

1965 Topps Stan Mikita #60

Value gain of $4,158.00

This card was purchased by whitman111 (Gary Moser) from PWCC as a PSA-9 on June 24, 2018 for $570.00. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1678851
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-10for $4,728.00 on October 28, 2018. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1819358

Yellow circles are print or fiber identifiers.
Red squares identify color added to the solid black at bottom front. "Snow" is mentioned in the PSA-9 listing description.

[Briss]

Corndog - i want to print up your posts and put them all around Lake Oswego where PWCC is at.

Only 21.1 miles from me just checked. Or a mini billboard saying "Who you screwing today?!"

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by Briss

Corndog - i want to print up your posts and put them all around Lake Oswego where PWCC is at.

Only 21.1 miles from me just checked. Or a mini billboard saying "Who you screwing today?!"

You could put some on the outside walls of the Vault.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

+1 -- It's not just the damage to these cards themselves, it's the effect on the market for all of our cards caused by the exorbitant prices being paid for the doctored ones. Initially the tide may have been rising, but if enough collectors get scared away from buying this stuff -- at least until they build a better grading "mousetrap" -- the prices will all come crashing down.

For the time being, however, it appears that enough people who don't know or don't care are keeping the market afloat.

It’s also possible the market is being “kept afloat” either by shill-bidders or by non-sales/fake bidders. We’ve already seen evidence of market manipulation.

The scandalous status-quo represents a huge money-making opportunity that the many crooks won’t easily let go away.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by rats60

It is more like people that are heavily invested in high grade cards are keeping the market afloat. We saw this a few years ago with certain rookie cards that were being manipulated. It is in their financial interest to bid up cards that they already own so it doesn't appear their cards are worth less.

Coincidentally, PWCC was a major venue for all that too.

[superdan49]

Originally Posted by towerymt

Hole punch. Slab 'Authentic'. Just like my old passport that just came back from State Dept.

Hole punch would be great compromise. Lower left corner, each one. Then slabbed "Authentic - Altered"

[ThoseBackPages]

i like the hole-punched AUTHENTIC idea

since slab prices are going to "come crashing down", i will still offer 500 US Dollars for a 1952 Topps #311 in the aforementioned PSA Slab

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by superdan49

Hole punch would be great compromise. Lower left corner, each one. Then slabbed "Authentic - Altered"

Lol - it's bad enough they slab trimmed cards. Imagine them hole punching a high dollar non altered card...

[Briss]

So they are located in a building that's in a shopping complex I could 100% get a chair and sit in front of the building with a poster board sign! Weather is 8-10 degrees cooler the next 2 days soooooo lmk!