“Wall Street is piling into sports cards as prices soar”

[allenforever3]

with modern printing technology and current ridiculous prices for inserts and RCs, I will not be surprised there will tons of extremely high quality fakes flow into the markets and even PSA/BGS won't be able to tell any difference.
Where there is crazy profit, there will be people coming in.
Printing one cardboard to sell for a couple of thousands, that sounds like better business than drugs.
Don't be surprised there will be a day you spent a couple of thousand on a fake card that no one can actually know it is fake. I guess this day will come pretty soon with current market price.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

I'm past the fancy sports/luxury car phase. I bought a brand new f-150. Great thing about those is they hold their value well and easier to transport things.

[JohnnyHatesJazz]

Originally Posted by allenforever3

with modern printing technology and current ridiculous prices for inserts and RCs, I will not be surprised there will tons of extremely high quality fakes flow into the markets and even PSA/BGS won't be able to tell any difference.
Where there is crazy profit, there will be people coming in.
Printing one cardboard to sell for a couple of thousands, that sounds like better business than drugs.
Don't be surprised there will be a day you spent a couple of thousand on a fake card that no one can actually know it is fake. I guess this day will come pretty soon with current market price.

maybe they'll stop dealing drugs and focus on sports cards.

that's a good thing.

[brock]

Originally Posted by gottagitdemjs

My parents kept telling me when I was in college to stop spending all of my money on cards...8 years later, a $900 investment looks like it is going to pay off my house and make me debt free (if/when I decide to sell it).

Wow. I can't think of a better trio. Incredible card.


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[IndianaCards]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHatesJazz

maybe they'll stop dealing drugs and focus on sports cards.



that's a good thing.

It's not an either/or proposition buddy, they're most definitely selling drugs WHILE printing up sports cards. If you ain't first, your last.

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[Totalpackage]

What about this one? The seller is asking 500k.

[aaronking23]

^ that card is absolutely filthy but its a shame its all stickers

[lietuvalabas]

Originally Posted by RogerGodahell

I've already done the car thing i think you outgrow it eventually. Or at least i did. I've had a BMW, GT500, Raptor, Lexus, Benz. Now i have a 2012 Camry and it suits my needs just fine. The Raptor was definitely my favorite though.

how did that go over showing up to work as a lineman?

"ugggggghhhh buy an american car" (in my make fun of douchey voice)

I dont hate it, just know the perception alot of those guys have.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by allenforever3

with modern printing technology and current ridiculous prices for inserts and RCs, I will not be surprised there will tons of extremely high quality fakes flow into the markets and even PSA/BGS won't be able to tell any difference.
Where there is crazy profit, there will be people coming in.
Printing one cardboard to sell for a couple of thousands, that sounds like better business than drugs.
Don't be surprised there will be a day you spent a couple of thousand on a fake card that no one can actually know it is fake. I guess this day will come pretty soon with current market price.

Zero chance. If they cant catch fakes the TPG arent training their graders well enough.

[hauntedcomputer]

PSA 10s created a somewhat artificial and contrived scarcity. There are hundreds of thousands of 1986 Fleer MJs in varying conditions (and more are being printed every day...). So not only is the house of cards built on literal cardboard, it's also resting on a flawed and subjective grading system. Not that it really matters, since reality is whatever enough of us agree it to be.

This is my third go-round in collecting, and last time I was a small-time dealer/shop owner who was bogged down with "collecting brain," and my biggest regret was not selling everything as fast as i could at a reasonable profit. This time, I went in with the idea of putting 10 percent of my net worth into cards. That's now down to 5 percent because I sold most of it to put in Roths, tax-free growth forever. Too early, maybe, but I don't care one bit. I don't mind leaving some profit for the next guy, or a card going to a good home.

Obviously I'm not a lifelong collector, and I only missed out on a few of my real passion cards (came so close on a nice 57 Russell), but the only cards I really care about are the beat-up crap I pulled out of packs as a poor kid scrapping up nickels that I still have. So I don't really care what happens to the market, since I know I can always buy cards later if they go down or even if I just want them. I do have to wonder about the card that was 1X two years and in low demand but is now 20X and vanishing is really still worth 1X and nobody knows it yet. I've yet to see a strong, sustainable reason for it that isn't some form of wishful thinking or cognitive bias.

[brock]

Originally Posted by Totalpackage

What about this one? The seller is asking 500k.

Shame they are stickers and shame that LeBron signed that with his anus


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[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by hauntedcomputer

PSA 10s created a somewhat artificial and contrived scarcity. There are hundreds of thousands of 1986 Fleer MJs in varying conditions (and more are being printed every day...). So not only is the house of cards built on literal cardboard, it's also resting on a flawed and subjective grading system. Not that it really matters, since reality is whatever enough of us agree it to be.

There is a finite supply of real 1986 Fleer MJs.

[miscus555]

Always thought cars were a terrible investment so I’m glad they are doing their big stick swinging with blue chip sports cards.

[sebreg]

Cars can be good, but it's a volatile price-wise as collectable/investment. But if you get high demand, iconic, low-production cars, that can be big $$$ that hold and accrue in valuations. But takes more maintenance fees than sports' cards. I'm not big on cars myself, as the maintenance aspect is a pain in the %@. But I've heard if I get the right sports car it may add a few inches, which is always an intriguing proposition

[gomiamigo]

If those horribly signed sticker UD blacks are asking $500k [lol] I wonder what my on-card Jordan/Lebron dual auto patches/10 is worth from that year.



I have all 3 MJ duals from that set, shame the only Kobe was with Vince though.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

There is a finite supply of real 1986 Fleer MJs.

True....but the fakes are now so good that I wouldn't be surprised to find out from BODA that more than a few are either getting slabbed by the PSA assembly line or being put into fake slabs by hobby ne'er-do-wells.

[Selanne00008]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Have you ever read the book, The Millionaire Next Door?

Your current lifestyle and outlook greatly aligns with many of the factors (7) presented in it that are most commonly found among those who successfully build wealth. I'm not even surprised you drive a low 4-figure car, you've always struck me as a smart man whom I've had the fortune of learning from over the years.

Note: If you haven't read the aforementioned book or if others are interested in knowing about the 7 factors, they are listed below:

1. They live well below their means.
2. They allocate their time, energy, and money efficiently, in ways conducive to building wealth.
3. They believe that financial independence is more important than displaying high social status.
4. Their parents did not provide economic outpatient care.
5. Their adult children are economically self-sufficient.
6. They are proficient in targeting market opportunities.
7. They chose the right occupation.

One of my fav books. Mostly because the opposite of what it teaches is my sister 100% haha. Def worth the read.

[mrb842]

wallstreet in the hobby allows long time collectors to
a)clean out your houses so your kids don't have
b)cash in so that your kids don't get stuck
c)refocus on what you actually care about
d)bring a new era of folks in so that when you do have to part w/what you want to get rid of their are people there to help you out

you can't get the stuff you want to at the prices you used to. that's the price of being able to clean out your basements and this will all crash at some point.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by hauntedcomputer

PSA 10s created a somewhat artificial and contrived scarcity. There are hundreds of thousands of 1986 Fleer MJs in varying conditions (and more are being printed every day...). So not only is the house of cards built on literal cardboard, it's also resting on a flawed and subjective grading system. Not that it really matters, since reality is whatever enough of us agree it to be.

This is my third go-round in collecting, and last time I was a small-time dealer/shop owner who was bogged down with "collecting brain," and my biggest regret was not selling everything as fast as i could at a reasonable profit. This time, I went in with the idea of putting 10 percent of my net worth into cards. That's now down to 5 percent because I sold most of it to put in Roths, tax-free growth forever. Too early, maybe, but I don't care one bit. I don't mind leaving some profit for the next guy, or a card going to a good home.

Obviously I'm not a lifelong collector, and I only missed out on a few of my real passion cards (came so close on a nice 57 Russell), but the only cards I really care about are the beat-up crap I pulled out of packs as a poor kid scrapping up nickels that I still have. So I don't really care what happens to the market, since I know I can always buy cards later if they go down or even if I just want them. I do have to wonder about the card that was 1X two years and in low demand but is now 20X and vanishing is really still worth 1X and nobody knows it yet. I've yet to see a strong, sustainable reason for it that isn't some form of wishful thinking or cognitive bias.

Hundreds of thousands of fleer 86 and more printed every day... what the hell are you talking about? Fakes? Sure I guess. There most certainly are not hundreds of thousands of authentic #57 out there.

If you’re going to talk a big old timer game at least be accurate otherwise youre no better than a pbm on his 4th go around.

[Sonnys88]

Originally Posted by allenforever3

with modern printing technology and current ridiculous prices for inserts and RCs, I will not be surprised there will tons of extremely high quality fakes flow into the markets and even PSA/BGS won't be able to tell any difference.
Where there is crazy profit, there will be people coming in.
Printing one cardboard to sell for a couple of thousands, that sounds like better business than drugs.
Don't be surprised there will be a day you spent a couple of thousand on a fake card that no one can actually know it is fake. I guess this day will come pretty soon with current market price.

Correct.

Counterfeiting is probably the biggest threat to the card market by far. Dealers and Collectors have been duped by counterfeits going back to the 1980s. If 1980s technology could fool some, there is no telling how many will be fooled by 2020s and future technology.

Sure, PSA and the other grading companies are supposed to be the "security" against the counterfeit cards - but once the counterfeit example becomes un-distinguishable from the original, how will anyone (or any authentication company) be able to tell the difference? (Look at the Fake Autographed T206 Scandal that happened recently, and the never-ending list of trimmed / doctored cards being slabbed - they all got past the "security").

We're not talking about reproducing highly intricate items. The majority are mass-produced printed pieces of cardboard that do not contain "anti-counterfeiting" technology. Someone or some group / company will find a way to reproduce exact replicas if they haven't already.

Provenance will end up playing a huge role in a card's value as time goes on. Similar to the fine-art world.

[MavsRChamps]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

Correct.

Counterfeiting is probably the biggest threat to the card market by far. Dealers and Collectors have been duped by counterfeits going back to the 1980s. If 1980s technology could fool some, there is no telling how many will be fooled by 2020s and future technology.

Sure, PSA and the other grading companies are supposed to be the "security" against the counterfeit cards - but once the counterfeit example becomes un-distinguishable from the original, how will anyone (or any authentication company) be able to tell the difference? (Look at the Fake Autographed T206 Scandal that happened recently, and the never-ending list of trimmed / doctored cards being slabbed - they all got past the "security").

We're not talking about reproducing highly intricate items. The majority are mass-produced printed pieces of cardboard that do not contain "anti-counterfeiting" technology. Someone or some group / company will find a way to reproduce exact replicas if they haven't already.

Provenance will end up playing a huge role in a card's value as time goes on. Similar to the fine-art world.

I agree it's the biggest threat. Right now the difference between the "fakes" & originals on key cards such as Jordan Fleer Rookie, Lebron Topps rookie is so miniscule to the eye and so minor even in reality. Down the road, I don't see how the card can't be replicated EXACTLY by someone or some company. I don't think it's a matter of if, but a matter of when.

Gloomy outlook, but that's why I try to steer clear of any basic looking cards no matter how popular. Autographs, #ed cards, cards w/ a lot of foil are very hard to fake if not impossible.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Sonnys88

Correct.

Counterfeiting is probably the biggest threat to the card market by far. Dealers and Collectors have been duped by counterfeits going back to the 1980s. If 1980s technology could fool some, there is no telling how many will be fooled by 2020s and future technology.

Sure, PSA and the other grading companies are supposed to be the "security" against the counterfeit cards - but once the counterfeit example becomes un-distinguishable from the original, how will anyone (or any authentication company) be able to tell the difference? (Look at the Fake Autographed T206 Scandal that happened recently, and the never-ending list of trimmed / doctored cards being slabbed - they all got past the "security").

We're not talking about reproducing highly intricate items. The majority are mass-produced printed pieces of cardboard that do not contain "anti-counterfeiting" technology. Someone or some group / company will find a way to reproduce exact replicas if they haven't already.

Provenance will end up playing a huge role in a card's value as time goes on. Similar to the fine-art world.

Agreed.

There are already tons of cards that I would never buy unless I could inspect them in person due to concerns about them being either fakes or trimmed.

Doesn't make a difference if they are slabbed or not....

[mc1]

Originally Posted by mfw13

True....but the fakes are now so good that I wouldn't be surprised to find out from BODA that more than a few are either getting slabbed by the PSA assembly line or being put into fake slabs by hobby ne'er-do-wells.

If PSA sees 100 fake Jordan Roookies, I bet they identify 100 of them as fakes.

Same with the Fake Topps Lebrons.

More obscure ones like the Lebron Fleer Tradition fakes? Who knows.

Theres dozens of clues to spot fakes. Counterfeits will never duplicate each specific detail 100% accurately.

[gomiamigo]

They don't have to dupe the originals 100.00% just enough to fool the graders. Which they will, sooner or later.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by mc1

If PSA sees 100 fake Jordan Roookies, I bet they identify 100 of them as fakes.

Same with the Fake Topps Lebrons.

More obscure ones like the Lebron Fleer Tradition fakes? Who knows.

Theres dozens of clues to spot fakes. Counterfeits will never duplicate each specific detail 100% accurately.

You've got a lot more faith in PSA graders than I do....

You're assuming that they spend a lot of time examining each card.

THEY DON'T.

It was reported years ago that PSA allows graders 30-45 seconds per card. PSA never refuted that number, so I assume it's true.

And then there's the question of how well PSA graders are trained.

Remember....PSA is a volume-based business akin to an assembly line.

They make money by grading as many cards as possible, NOT by focusing on accuracy.