$22.5k of Trimmed Harper 2012 Topps Heritage High Autos Sold via PWCC and Probstein

[KhalDrogo]

Is there anyone who disagrees that the Mantle has been pressed? Pressing is alteration by PSA’s standards, and they will not issue a numerical grade to such cards. I don’t understand if PWCC is saying the Mantle has not been pressed or if they believe pressing is not alteration. I would like them to clarify their stance.

[WizardofOz1982]

Originally Posted by cking

I though PWCC stated they were going to pull down cards that are proven altered. This card has been proven to be altered.

Why is it still up?

They stated in this thread that altered cards would be pulled. This card is altered and its not being pulled.

Why would they say they are going to do something and then not do it? All in the same thread none the less.

Because they consider it "conserved" not altered. It isn't like words mean anything anyway.

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Is there anyone who disagrees that the Mantle has been pressed? Pressing is alteration by PSA’s standards, and they will not issue a numerical grade to such cards. I don’t understand if PWCC is saying the Mantle has not been pressed or if they believe pressing is not alteration. I would like them to clarify their stance.

It has definitely been pressed at the minimum (personally I think it had a very slight trim too unless it was undersize to begin with). I have real issue with PWCC's attempt to redefine terms like restoration and conservation and personally think that's bs.

I have an issue with PSA here too though. Why is this card in a 4.5 slab and not an Altered/Authentic one? It has been a long time since I've handled any cards that have been soaked/pressed but back then I could tell by feel if they had or not. Surely the graders at PSA who handle something like a '52 Mantle have at least the skill I did as an 11 or 12 year old.

[Oldan Poar]

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[socialslave]

I have to be honest here - this fault should lie with PSA. We pay PSA to AUTHENTICATE. That means their responsibility is to be professional sports authenticators. If people are trimming or altering cards in a way to 'defraud' us then that's why we are paying PSA or other grading services... otherwise PSA is just looking at the card for 5 seconds then slabbing it. Anyone disagree?

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by socialslave

I have to be honest here - this fault should lie with PSA. We pay PSA to AUTHENTICATE. That means their responsibility is to be professional sports authenticators. If people are trimming or altering cards in a way to 'defraud' us then that's why we are paying PSA or other grading services... otherwise PSA is just looking at the card for 5 seconds then slabbing it. Anyone disagree?

welcome back.

if a card is within "size requirement", what are they to do?

[socialslave]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

welcome back.

if a card is within "size requirement", what are they to do?

I don't have that answer - but if it fits PSA's requirement whats the complaint?

[Rucchin]

.....

[psd2k10]

Here is a suggestion, if any one in this thread is truly upset about this situation and is upset pwcc will not do anything to fix/improve this situation, then i challenge you to not buy from them again until things improve. As individuals all we can do is bark but together we can make that difference we are all looking for.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by socialslave

I have to be honest here - this fault should lie with PSA. We pay PSA to AUTHENTICATE. That means their responsibility is to be professional sports authenticators. If people are trimming or altering cards in a way to 'defraud' us then that's why we are paying PSA or other grading services... otherwise PSA is just looking at the card for 5 seconds then slabbing it. Anyone disagree?

I partially agree. But when large consignors start to double down with their own pumped up "High End" qualification, or leverage themselves as one of the premiere high end sellers, they too have to back what they are selling. They can't just pass the buck to the grading company.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by psd2k10

Here is a suggestion, if any one in this thread is truly upset about this situation and is upset pwcc will not do anything to fix/improve this situation, then i challenge you to not buy from them again until things improve. As individuals all we can do is bark but together we can make that difference we are all looking for.

I will never, ever buy from PWCC again. They are on par with BNC in my eyes.

[rngrdanny22]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

I will never, ever buy from PWCC again. They are on par with BNC in my eyes.

Same here, but I've always been cautious with them. How can they sell something for 20-30% more than other BIN's and auctions of the exact same thing? I've been convinced they are shilled and have purposely stayed away.

Some PWCC defenders will say it's because of "marketing" or "trust" they place in the company. LOL. Whatever makes you feel better for overpaying.

[Oldan Poar]

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[joey_peapod]

Originally Posted by rngrdanny22

Same here, but I've always been cautious with them. How can they sell something for 20-30% more than other BIN's and auctions of the exact same thing? I've been convinced they are shilled and have purposely stayed away.

Some PWCC defenders will say it's because of "marketing" or "trust" they place in the company. LOL. Whatever makes you feel better for overpaying.

Have you ever seen their payment plan? You can pay 5 different ways and take up to 3 months. /end pwcc schilling bs

[mjohnatgt]

There is definitely shilling. Surprising to see anyone disagree that consignors shill their own auctions on PWCC. /ostrich mode

[IgnatiusJReilly]

One thing that really bums me out about this mess is that I think the heritage real one Harper auto is one of the coolest modern cards. It’s rare, has an awesome signature emblazoned on it, and is of the most talked about baseball player of the current era. What a waste.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cking]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

welcome back.

if a card is within "size requirement", what are they to do?

They can start by stop claiming that they are experts who have the ability to detect counterfiet and altered cards.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by cking

They can start by stop claiming that they are experts who have the ability to detect counterfiet and altered cards.

yea, the bravado can be toned down for sure

[pryantexas]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Because PWCC replied so quickly and professionally I wanted to go out of my way to update

They are taking the card back and are guaranteeing full reimbursement... they will be working with PSA to take the card out of circulation and I’m assuming get it slabbed as “altered”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wanted to confirm that I overnighted the card to PWCC and within an hour of them having it in their possession they had full reimbursement to my paypall account.

I appreciate the great service and makes me comfortable buying from them

[mrdallas]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Wanted to confirm that I overnighted the card to PWCC and within an hour of them having it in their possession they had full reimbursement to my paypall account.

I appreciate the great service and makes me comfortable buying from them

That is great that they did this. I will not overlook that. My honest question to you is this. Knowing that PWCC has absolutely zero interest in disclosing cards that have been altered/restored even when presented with clear evidence. How can you be so comfortable buying from them? and...

Did they have a chance to reach out to you after they had this knowledge in their hands or did YOU have to reach out to them? What if you never said anything? Do you think they would have reimbursed you? Or is that what happened? Serious question.

[psd2k10]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Wanted to confirm that I overnighted the card to PWCC and within an hour of them having it in their possession they had full reimbursement to my paypall account.

I appreciate the great service and makes me comfortable buying from them

you haven't learned anything have you? go ahead and knock yourself out, buy another altered card.

[pryantexas]

Originally Posted by mrdallas

That is great that they did this. I will not overlook that. My honest question to you is this. Knowing that PWCC has absolutely zero interest in disclosing cards that have been altered/restored even when presented with clear evidence. How can you be so comfortable buying from them? and...

Did they have a chance to reach out to you after they had this knowledge in their hands or did YOU have to reach out to them? What if you never said anything? Do you think they would have reimbursed you? Or is that what happened? Serious question.

Maybe I'm a uniquely fortunate collector in that I am on this forum and have other collector friends that keep an eye on the card world news and therefore I saw this thread before PWCC had a chance to reach out to me.

I haven't kept up with the other threads as its been a uniquely busy week but based on my experience and based on the other posts it does sound as if PWCC will refund any purchase that was deemed to be trimmed... also seems like they are taking down auctions that appear to be of trimmed cards.

I'm not trying to be an idiot here but what else can they do?

They can't publicly disclose the name of the consignors of these trimmed cards for legal reasons but they can no longer accept cards from them

[1989FF]

Originally Posted by superdan49

The only thing longer than the list of trimmed cards linked to Kevin Burge is his rap sheet. Even I'm amazed at this particular find, and it takes a lot to shock me with card trimming.

I saw his name and was surprised he's still scamming. Been over 10 years now. Crazy.

[Rooftop]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Maybe I'm a uniquely fortunate collector in that I am on this forum and have other collector friends that keep an eye on the card world news and therefore I saw this thread before PWCC had a chance to reach out to me.

I haven't kept up with the other threads as its been a uniquely busy week but based on my experience and based on the other posts it does sound as if PWCC will refund any purchase that was deemed to be trimmed... also seems like they are taking down auctions that appear to be of trimmed cards.

I'm not trying to be an idiot here but what else can they do?

They can't publicly disclose the name of the consignors of these trimmed cards for legal reasons but they can no longer accept cards from them

Lets say in their records they find out "Joe" consigned the card you purchased. They realize "Joe" has consigned over 1000 cards with them in the past. Do you think they are going to contact everyone that purchased cards that "Joe" consigned and offer refunds or help in determining if they were altered. You should be thanking the guys that exposed the fraud instead of praising PWCC.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Rooftop

Lets say in their records they find out "Joe" consigned the card you purchased. They realize "Joe" has consigned over 1000 cards with them in the past. Do you think they are going to contact everyone that purchased cards that "Joe" consigned and offer refunds or help in determining if they were altered. You should be thanking the guys that exposed the fraud instead of praising PWCC.

But there’s actually at least four Joes and tens of thousands of cards.

[mrdallas]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Maybe I'm a uniquely fortunate collector in that I am on this forum and have other collector friends that keep an eye on the card world news and therefore I saw this thread before PWCC had a chance to reach out to me.

I haven't kept up with the other threads as its been a uniquely busy week but based on my experience and based on the other posts it does sound as if PWCC will refund any purchase that was deemed to be trimmed... also seems like they are taking down auctions that appear to be of trimmed cards.

I'm not trying to be an idiot here but what else can they do?

They can't publicly disclose the name of the consignors of these trimmed cards for legal reasons but they can no longer accept cards from them

When the card in question is brought to their attention they can reach out to the buyers and offer a refund and give them full disclosure of what the situation is. Hopefully they will not rely on buyers to reach out before remedying the situation
When people spend in excess of 5K on a card I would think that is the least they can do.