2023-24 NBA Season Thread

[ninjabum87]

Originally Posted by Nomad

It's the lens by which I view the NBA. Don't have time to watch every team. Stan is like an uninformed fanboy? Sorry I don't follow Internet nomenclature much.

Yeah a Stan's just like a rose-tinted supporter of something. Team subs on reddit are where you find most of them. They're usually talking about how they're only one piece/coach away from contending with the elite teams. Basically just hardcore mega invested fans and that spills into their often-heavily biased takes that viewed through a wider lense come across as delusional. Better than fairweathers I suppose.

[mjekase]

Originally Posted by Nomad

It's the lens by which I view the NBA. Don't have time to watch every team. Stan is like an uninformed fanboy? Sorry I don't follow Internet nomenclature much.

If you're going to project highbrow by not knowing the origins of "stan" and use words like "nomenclature", know this: It's a lens THROUGH which you view the NBA. Not "by". And that lens should be less Baghdad Bob.

[Nomad]

My lens may be rose-tinted, but let's see how the season plays out. Personally, I like in depth analysis. Usually that means deep diving into one's area of expertise. For me that coincides with a collection that is also an investment. Completing the Nesmith rookie + collection is really fun.

If you want just simple razzing about fakers and stuff, you can have a largely empty thread. Yesterday, when jcard requested analysis to back up what I said about defense I provided that (I mentioned the outsized Jalen Smith impact and that was born out by his return presence against Charlotte and absence in Memphis). Wish a Harden or Leonard collector would tell me exactly what is going on with Clippers, or a Banchero or C. Anthony collector what are the internal dynamics with Orlando this year. But generally crickets chirp and hype boys get stuck watching Spurs highlights.

I am not a Pacers booster per se. I delved into the Celtics when Nesmith was in Boston. Like I said, it's a lens for watching NBA, which keeps me somewhat sane (America on the ground is full of fruits and nuts of both political stripes) and an investment.

The fact that crash is still gaining momentum and taking the team reigns (unheralded, simply because he doesn't start) is benefitting me. The skepticism of the collecting community benefits me. If I thought people took me seriously and would invest based on what I wrote I wouldn't put it up.

Also stats don't lie. Anyone with volume on this list and comparable defense? (Bane I guess, another reasonable investment). I really like Nesmith's approach of rigorously working on each aspect of his game.



At the same time it's nice to see Ja do good. Dusting off the green blast SLAM rookie /89, the second year Ja Glass, and the RR /149 at the moment. I sorely wanted to invest in Ja in 2020, but couldn't afford it, as I got some random mid tier cards for a few hundred bucks, instead of the truly rare and coveted. Nesmith allowed me to create a collection at the standard I wanted, so I took that route.

If more collectors thought this way, instead of praying for their supposed superstar savior to return/lose weight/fix those ankles we would actually have a healthier collecting ecosystem that would support maybe 50%, instead of 10%, of what breakers charge.

[ninjabum87]

You probably aren't going to get unbiased analyses of a team or player's issues from someone who "invests" in that player in particular depending on what their financial interest/slant is, IMO.

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Nomad

My lens may be rose-tinted, but let's see how the season plays out. Personally, I like in depth analysis. Usually that means deep diving into one's area of expertise. For me that coincides with a collection that is also an investment. Completing the Nesmith rookie + collection is really fun.

If you want just simple razzing about fakers and stuff, you can have a largely empty thread. Yesterday, when jcard requested analysis to back up what I said about defense I provided that (I mentioned the outsized Jalen Smith impact and that was born out by his return presence against Charlotte and absence in Memphis). Wish a Harden or Leonard collector would tell me exactly what is going on with Clippers, or a Banchero or C. Anthony collector what are the internal dynamics with Orlando this year. But generally crickets chirp and hype boys get stuck watching Spurs highlights.

I am not a Pacers booster per se. I delved into the Celtics when Nesmith was in Boston. Like I said, it's a lens for watching NBA, which keeps me somewhat sane (America on the ground is full of fruits and nuts of both political stripes) and an investment.

The fact that crash is still gaining momentum and taking the team reigns (unheralded, simply because he doesn't start) is benefitting me. The skepticism of the collecting community benefits me. If I thought people took me seriously and would invest based on what I wrote I wouldn't put it up.

Also stats don't lie. Anyone with volume on this list and comparable defense? (Bane I guess, another reasonable investment). I really like Nesmith's approach of rigorously working on each aspect of his game.



At the same time it's nice to see Ja do good. Dusting off the green blast SLAM rookie /89, the second year Ja Glass, and the RR /149 at the moment. I sorely wanted to invest in Ja in 2020, but couldn't afford it, as I got some random mid tier cards for a few hundred bucks, instead of the truly rare and coveted. Nesmith allowed me to create a collection at the standard I wanted, so I took that route.

If more collectors thought this way, instead of praying for their supposed superstar savior to return/lose weight/fix those ankles we would actually have a healthier collecting ecosystem that would support maybe 50%, instead of 10%, of what breakers charge.

Your PC is pretty sweet, it’s always good to see hobby interest that’s outside of just the hype men and flip godz. That being said, please stop calling it an investment. It’s not that

I mean I guess you can call it whatever you want but you’re never going to get a return on it. He’s a fine role player who’s been getting a little better each season but he’s got so many things going against him from a hobby perspective.

You’ve been on this Nesmith thing for 3 years and nothing has happened. Just enjoy him as a player and buy cool cards because you like them because if you keep saying it’s an investment you’re going to be upset when it’s worthless in 5 years

[Nomad]

Your advice is well taken, but it's not exactly how I see it.

One, the basketball card hobby is hopefully evolving to be more inclusive of different types of talent, not just the generational and rookies, in turns of value and upward price potential. The (sober) Draymond Greens, even the Payton Pritchards, Myles Turners, and Jae Crowders.

Second, Nesmith has moved a few needles the last month. I'm not gonna trot out any more stats, but you can just see the expanded role in his actions and demeanor on the floor. The way Giannis called him out after the IST loss. As an example, when you put on muscle mass there is a period where its not quite sure where your true muscle growth potential lies.

Similarly, I think that crash, having worked on the fundamentals, is just beginning to define a ceiling and if he continues to make fundamentally good plays every time he is on the floor he could reach higher than people expect.

Give me that, just as I give you your probably more widely distributed investments. And let's distinguish between hype and the type of informed player commitment that actually drives the hobby forward as a viable market.

I considered quitting investing/collecting crash on a daily basis in the early months and every time I tuned in I was like no, I see his effort and potential. Particularly the way he gets along with all players on the floor, while backing it up with grit, and rarely complains. That is the general potential.

[Kingofkings1281]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Your advice is well taken, but it's not exactly how I see it.

One, the basketball card hobby is hopefully evolving to be more inclusive of different types of talent, not just the generational and rookies, in turns of value and upward price potential. The (sober) Draymond Greens, even the Payton Pritchards, Myles Turners, and Jae Crowders.

Second, Nesmith has moved a few needles the last month. I'm not gonna trot out any more stats, but you can just see the expanded role in his actions and demeanor on the floor. The way Giannis called him out after the IST loss. As an example, when you put on muscle mass there is a period where its not quite sure where your true muscle growth potential lies.

Similarly, I think that crash, having worked on the fundamentals, is just beginning to define a ceiling and if he continues to make fundamentally good plays every time he is on the floor he could reach higher than people expect.

Give me that, just as I give you your probably more widely distributed investments. And let's distinguish between hype and the type of informed player commitment that actually drives the hobby forward as a viable market.

I considered quitting investing/collecting crash on a daily basis in the early months and every time I tuned in I was like no, I see his effort and potential. Particularly the way he gets along with all players on the floor, while backing up with grit. That is the general potential.

[kd the sniper]

no 2 man game is better than Murray and jokic... Not even close

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[jcardstore]

Originally Posted by Nomad

One, the basketball card hobby is hopefully evolving to be more inclusive of different types of talent, not just the generational and rookies, in turns of value and upward price potential. The (sober) Draymond Greens, even the Payton Pritchards, Myles Turners, and Jae Crowders.

Even if we forget about Nesmith for a second, herein lies your issue.

You think people are going to just one day flip a switch and see the hobby your way, they won’t.

[gomiamigo]

Originally Posted by kd the sniper

no 2 man game is better than Murray and jokic... Not even close

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Embiid and Maxey is certainly close if not better. 86 combined against the #1 D in the NBA.

I'll give the crown to DEN for now though.

[daeve]

Originally Posted by kd the sniper

no 2 man game is better than Murray and jokic... Not even close

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

that was a vintage performance from them in the 4th last night. Even with Brooklyn showing some fight and hitting some big shots.

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by jcardstore

Even if we forget about Nesmith for a second, herein lies your issue.

You think people are going to just one day flip a switch and see the hobby your way, they won’t.

There's a harsh reality in basketball collecting that I call "The Chris Mullin Rule".

Chris Mullin is a:
-Hall of Famer
-4 Time All NBA player
-Olympic Gold Medal winning member of the first Dream Team
-Averaged 25+ points per game 5 years in a row

And nobody in collecting gives a damn about him.

That's the bar. Mullin had a better career than 98% of the players ever to play in the NBA, but it's not enough to be hobby relevant.

[oldgoldy97]

Man, Pacers peak each year so early. It would stink to be a fan. .500 headed to 10-15 under before it’s done.

[oldgoldy97]

Nesmith so inconsistent with his shooting. But he probably made someone mad, so that’s a gold star.

[packman80]

If Detroit makes it to 30 straight losses does a WNBA team replace them?

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by tjforce

There's a harsh reality in basketball collecting that I call "The Chris Mullin Rule".

Chris Mullin is a:
-Hall of Famer
-4 Time All NBA player
-Olympic Gold Medal winning member of the first Dream Team
-Averaged 25+ points per game 5 years in a row

And nobody in collecting gives a damn about him.

That's the bar. Mullin had a better career than 98% of the players ever to play in the NBA, but it's not enough to be hobby relevant.

So true....unless you are in the MVP conversation on an annual basis and win titles, nobody is going to care about you once you retire (and possibly even before then).

What you said about Mullin is equally true for Dominqiue Wilkins, Ewing, Stockton, Nash, Kidd, Karl Malone, etc.

And even guys who did win MVP's & titles like Moses Malone, Hakeem, D.Robinson, Tim Duncan, etc. are barely noticed by collectors.

Unless you're LeBron/Steph/Jokic/Giannis/Embiid level, you for all intents and purposes don't exist in the hobby.

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by mfw13

So true....unless you are in the MVP conversation on an annual basis and win titles, nobody is going to care about you once you retire (and possibly even before then).

What you said about Mullin is equally true for Dominqiue Wilkins, Ewing, Stockton, Nash, Kidd, Karl Malone, etc.

And even guys who did win MVP's & titles like Moses Malone, Hakeem, D.Robinson, Tim Duncan, etc. are barely noticed by collectors.

Unless you're LeBron/Steph/Jokic/Giannis/Embiid level, you for all intents and purposes don't exist in the hobby.

If they retired today or had a mediocre rest of career, no one would care about Jokic/Giannis/Embiid 5 years after they retire either.

[ninjabum87]

Originally Posted by mfw13

So true....unless you are in the MVP conversation on an annual basis and win titles, nobody is going to care about you once you retire (and possibly even before then).

What you said about Mullin is equally true for Dominqiue Wilkins, Ewing, Stockton, Nash, Kidd, Karl Malone, etc.

And even guys who did win MVP's & titles like Moses Malone, Hakeem, D.Robinson, Tim Duncan, etc. are barely noticed by collectors.

Unless you're LeBron/Steph/Jokic/Giannis/Embiid level, you for all intents and purposes don't exist in the hobby.

I'd argue Joker and Embiid don't really move the needle much either for collectors. They have Big Syndrome as well. Look at prices for either rn compared to Luka or Ja. Probably even Tatum.

[Nomad]

We are delving into some interesting stuff here. Continue.

I think that the Bulls is like a model of what card collecting could be. Similar to Yankees, don't some collectors go for basically all the members?

What I do like about Pacers is that almost all the players are eloquent. I actually watch their postgame pressers, half of which are conducted in the locker room, for insight and entertainment.
Other teams, all too often, I get this sense of pulling teeth when they get before the mikes.

And maybe that is what is lacking a bit...the kind of rapport that builds fans. Why does penny Hardaway, of all players, have a dedicated fan base? Why does Nesmith get people into the game? Because people can relate to the short guy who has to scrap and wears his team colors on his sleeve (or whatever the metaphor is). PaceBalls: "Nesmith is so pissed right now. He looks like he is about to cry. I love that guy."

[oldgoldy97]

Wolves win.


No KAT. Didn’t really matter.

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by mfw13

So true....unless you are in the MVP conversation on an annual basis and win titles, nobody is going to care about you once you retire (and possibly even before then).

What you said about Mullin is equally true for Dominqiue Wilkins, Ewing, Stockton, Nash, Kidd, Karl Malone, etc.

And even guys who did win MVP's & titles like Moses Malone, Hakeem, D.Robinson, Tim Duncan, etc. are barely noticed by collectors.

Unless you're LeBron/Steph/Jokic/Giannis/Embiid level, you for all intents and purposes don't exist in the hobby.

One thing they all have in common is that they are all active nba players, so who knows if they'll all remain popular once they retire. Someone once told me that baseball collectors are fundamentally different from basketball collectors in that baseball guys care about the history of the game and the older players, while the basketball guy cares mostly about the current exciting players; I think it's pretty accurate.

[blackbears86]

lebron with a 40 bomb against OKC last night.

Love or hate him, he's still playing at a high level.

[bigjbasketball]

Originally Posted by tjforce

There's a harsh reality in basketball collecting that I call "The Chris Mullin Rule".

Chris Mullin is a:
-Hall of Famer
-4 Time All NBA player
-Olympic Gold Medal winning member of the first Dream Team
-Averaged 25+ points per game 5 years in a row

And nobody in collecting gives a damn about him.

That's the bar. Mullin had a better career than 98% of the players ever to play in the NBA, but it's not enough to be hobby relevant.

This is a great point. And to add to it, on court performance rarely correlates to hobby values in the way that people think it will. Guys like Penny Hardaway, Vince Carter, and Allen Iverson outsell plenty of other players with better stats and better career resumes. There has to be something compelling about a player to make people want to collect his cards to the point where values actually increase (or at the very least hold steady) over time. I hate when people say things like titles and MVPs are “baked in” to a player’s card values. How are those Tim Duncan prices looking right now? Some players can win titles and MVPs and their prices go up, some win titles and MVPs and their prices go down, and some can not win any of those things and their prices will still increase.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by blackbears86

lebron with a 40 bomb against OKC last night.

Love or hate him, he's still playing at a high level.

Great shooting night, too.

[blackbears86]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Great shooting night, too.

I'm really looking forward to the Christmas game against the Celtics.


Hopefully, they keep him in check, but I have a feeling he's going to blow up.