Observations on the current state of the hobby from a show this weekend

[jkampis]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Is there a metal detector at the show?

Aren’t you the big time, decades-long card pro? You ought to know the answer to that.

[jkampis]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

did you attend the show? or are you going off what you see on the internet?

Agreed, his take was terrible. In many ways doesn’t reflect the reality of what I saw at the show. And complaining about the games, etc (the kind of stuff that helps draw in younger crowds) gives off an “old man shakes fist at cloud” vibe.

[FT35]

Originally Posted by Jolten Joe

I base my opinions off of what I feel effects me personally in my collecting.

There it is! Information gold : )

[mc1]

Originally Posted by FT35

There it is! Information gold : )

The guy wasnt even there. Solid take.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by Jolten Joe

From an average collector being priced out absolutely it is unless you are looking for dollar box singles. Problem is people see these so called influencers with their $10,000 pick up and think the hobby is as great as it's ever been. They have no clue or care that the same high dollar cards are just sold and passed along to the same circle of people over and over.

There are some big names on youtube with large followings who have not painted an overall pretty picture of the National this year. You hear a lot about experience and hanging with their BFF's as the positive points and that is it. Very much like when people buy cases and cases of product get absolutely crushed and declare it was still a fun rip and that's why they did it. No the casual guy who buys 1 or 2 boxes does it for the fun rip the people buying multiple cases are doing it to get some big hits they can gloat about.

Biggest issues that almost everyone has brought up

No A/C

Horrible Internet / Wifi

Cramped isles

Show floor being way too massive

Over priced cards with the exception of dollar box singles $20 and under

Too much non sports cards stuff like arcade type games and memorabilia that was just for display not for show.


It's clearly more of a hey look at me and how important I am to the hobby event than an actual card show. I guarantee you come next year if they were to say all video taping / recording inside the venue is banned that would be the end of The National because the big money attention wh*** would get pissed off take their ball or in this case camera crew and go home on day 1.

What are you even talking about, here?

Yeah, the A/C situation wasn't great but when you have 40,000 people in a convention center with it being 95-degrees outside and 70-degree dew points, there's not much you can do. It was more the weather factor than the A/C units. By Sat and Sun, it was fine.

No one has complained about the Wi-Fi. It's been terrible in years past, but those in our booth were connected 100% of the time.

Cramped isles? Yeah. There were over 100k people attending!

The show floor was massive? Yeah, but what's the alternative? Shrink it and make the isles more cramped?

Stop looking to youtube and Insta reels to build your reality. Come visit the National for yourself.

[theshowandme]

I had a great time. I bought a T206 Ty Cobb green portrait

[Neal]

The last few monthly shows in a very small state have been filled with kids trying to trade yesterday's news for unreal pricing and for the hot players and adults offering 60-80% of the ebay low price

Not interested

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[Philthy]

Originally Posted by Jolten Joe

Not thriving either from posts I've seen on FB.

Crowds were huge early but haven't seen a lot of talk about large numbers of transactions taking place which is key to hobby health. You can have a bazzilion people and if nobody is buying it doesn't mean anything.

Several youtube guys pointed out that Saturday attendance was drastically down and not a lot of movement happened during trade nights.

Heard Vintage dealers were insanely priced and most Ultra Modern stars were at Ebay comps if not a bit above. Hence not a huge amount of transactions going down.


Of course you have your influencers with videos titled " I flipped $45,000 in cards " and " Huge Vintage pickup " trying to pump it up but overall I've heard it was just mehhh for the most part and more people complaining about the A/C, Internet, and Topps National Packs selling out than large numbers of pickups.

Every dealer I talked to which was probably over a dozen said they did very well at the show. Could just be making small talk but no one said it was slow, business-wise. I aslo chatted with one of my LCS who was setup and he said it was very busy for them. At the very least, I trust them to tell me the truth as I setup at his local show often.

[theshowandme]

I would not listen to people who did not attend

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by Jolten Joe

No one cared about values or how much money they could make, there was no Ebay or Internet ( Unless you were lucky enough to have dial up).

The Junk Wax Era had plenty of pumpers! Just look at those old QVC-style shows. The sellers of that era definitely cared about the money they were making. And people have cared about the values of cards for a long time, even more the 90’s. Not sure where this false narrative started, you’re definitely not the first, but it’s just not accurate. I’ve seen people here say that one cared about card values in the 80’s, that one one cared about card values in the 90’s… fifty years from now some guy here will write, “back when I was a kid collecting in 2023, we didn’t care about the value of the Victor Wembanyama Prizm walrus fur refractor #/19 card the breaker just pulled for us, we just collected for the love of it.”

People have always cared. It’s just more in your face now.

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

The Junk Wax Era had plenty of pumpers! Just look at those old QVC-style shows. The sellers of that era definitely cared about the money they were making. And people have cared about the values of cards for a long time, even more the 90’s. Not sure where this false narrative started, you’re definitely not the first, but it’s just accurate. I’ve seen people here say that one cared about card values in the 80’s, that one one cared about card values in the 90’s… fifty years from now some guy here will write, “back when I was a kid collecting in 2023, we didn’t care about the value of the Victor Wembanyama Prizm walrus fur refractor #/19 card the breaker just pulled for us, we just collected for the love of it.”

People have always cared. It’s just more in your face now.

In the 80s/90s...if you didn't have a Beckett magazine in your hand going down release after release checking values, you weren't alive!

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by Jolten Joe

It's clearly more of a hey look at me and how important I am to the hobby event than an actual card show. I guarantee you come next year if they were to say all video taping / recording inside the venue is banned that would be the end of The National because the big money attention wh*** would get pissed off take their ball or in this case camera crew and go home on day 1.

This is insane. 99% of non-corporate booths were there to SELL. Less than 1% of attendees had a film crew or a pro camera.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by Neal

The last few monthly shows in a very small state have been filled with kids trying to trade yesterday's news for unreal pricing and for the hot players and adults offering 60-80% of the ebay low price

Not interested

There’s no denying that people are almost entirely looking for opportunities to cash in. Wish they’d leave for another hobby…maybe pogs will see a resurgence.

[cholodolo]

Originally Posted by MoreToppsPlease

There’s no denying that people are almost entirely looking for opportunities to cash in. Wish they’d leave for another hobby…maybe pogs will see a resurgence.

There's something to this and your signature -- many folks and companies entering the space are looking to extract cash. How else do we explain all of the fly-by-night apps, "marketplaces", and other unsavory characters proliferating?

I hate to say it, but many participants in this industry are ripe for the taking given how averse they are to any slightly negative view or take. Suffocating the canaries doesn't make it any better-- only encourages the bad actors.

That's my concern with the "hobby positivity" crowd who attended the National making all sorts of prognostications about the state of the hobby after a 4-day carnival of corporate schemes and interests. If you spent thousands to attend, and had thousands worth of valuable collectibles, would you say you didn't enjoy it? Sounds bad for business.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Cramped isles? Yeah. There were over 100k people attending!

The show floor was massive? Yeah, but what's the alternative? Shrink it and make the isles more cramped?

One possible solution would be to have large regional "Nationals" in different parts of the country throughout the year, instead of one huge annual show.

For example, the American Crafts council holds a "National" show in Baltimore each year AND three large regional shows in Atlanta, Minneapolis, and San Francisco.

Point being that if people had good large regional shows to go to, that would take some of the pressure off the National.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by cholodolo

There's something to this and your signature -- many folks and companies entering the space are looking to extract cash. How else do we explain all of the fly-by-night apps, "marketplaces", and other unsavory characters proliferating?

I hate to say it, but many participants in this industry are ripe for the taking given how averse they are to any slightly negative view or take. Suffocating the canaries doesn't make it any better-- only encourages the bad actors.

That's my concern with the "hobby positivity" crowd who attended the National making all sorts of prognostications about the state of the hobby after a 4-day carnival of corporate schemes and interests. If you spent thousands to attend, and had thousands worth of valuable collectibles, would you say you didn't enjoy it? Sounds bad for business.

Yes, exactly. This “hobby positivity” crowd as you call it mostly consists of people who have worked in the hobby for decades but have formed a kind of union with each other with the goal of making it seem like the hobby is a good place to invest in…despite it being a very sketchy place at best.

Surely these prognosticators are prognosticating for their own personal benefit and not a collective one…

[SupermanBrandon]

So a National and Regional(s) shows? So kind of like what we already have? With the National once a year plus Dallas, Philly, LA, Nashville, etc (plus small hometown shows). You guys are trying to reinvent something that doesn't need to be reinvented. Does the National need a makeover...yup? Does it need a complete overall...nope. Fanatics will change it up once they dive into the deep end of their own pool.

[NickyCards]

Is air conditioning usually an issue at the National venues? Never been to one, seen lots of complaints.

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by NickyCards

Is air conditioning usually an issue at the National venues? Never been to one, seen lots of complaints.

When you put a bunch of oversized middle aged men in a room together that are gawking over cardboard pictures of men in tight pants...its always going to get steamy.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by NickyCards

Is air conditioning usually an issue at the National venues? Never been to one, seen lots of complaints.

The main problem is that everyone walking around has over $100k in cash lining their shirt AND pant pockets - with all that insulation, you are bound to get hot and sweaty roaming the show.

It’s even worse when you sell high end cards there - now you’ve got $200k in cash keeping your entire body warm, including your ankles!

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

The main problem is that everyone walking around has over $100k in cash lining their shirt AND pant pockets - with all that insulation, you are bound to get hot and sweaty roaming the show.

It’s even worse when you sell high end cards there - now you’ve got $200k in cash keeping your entire body warm, including your ankles!

Yes Sir!

[majestik101]

Perception:




Reality:




Or is it the other way around?

[skurtis]

Originally Posted by Neal

The last few monthly shows in a very small state have been filled with kids trying to trade yesterday's news for unreal pricing and for the hot players and adults offering 60-80% of the ebay low price

Not interested

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

This reminds me of one of my favorite collecting memories as a kid. Billy Hatcher started the 1990 World Series 9-9 which was a record. So I went to my local card store with my dad and I wanted a Billy Hatcher rookie. The guy —-who I knew really well, Jack who smoked like a chimney and died many years ago—is like “5 bucks” or whatever and I was like “What are you talking about, Beckett says it’s $1” because prices were only quoted monthly in the magazine. He and my dad started laughing, and to be honest, I think he gave it to me for $1.

I hadn’t thought of that in years.

[vintg]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

LOL. I have been to about 20ish Nationals and this is the most insane I have ever seen it. I was there Monday for the pre-National show and saw tons of money changing hands. Guy walked in right at the start and bought an MJ insert for 65K cash, lots of activity all day and night. Woke up early Tuesday and got in there for set up and saw and spent lots of money. Was there all day Wednesday and more of the same. Thurs---rinse and repeat. Left Friday morning so I can not speak to the wekeend, but I talked to a few of my friends who set up and they all crushed it. They were exhausted and very pleased with sales and the overall weekend.

this. times 1,000

[ThoseBackPages]

it was a great time