Aaron Judge

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by Seitas

I’d still talk about Bonds. Like it or not he’s part of the landscape of baseball history. You can dislike someone, you can even choose not to accept their achievements as legit. That’s fine. But he will always be there.

And what a shame that is, that his fake stats are held up by fools to make comparisons to players that are 4x the man that he was. Baseball should have celebrated Judge's 62nd HR a lot more than they did. It's not about disliking Bonds it's about understanding how his crimes against baseball have destroyed the best part of baseball...the fabric of statistics that make comparing various generations possible. No sport is as easily comparable across generations as baseball. The PED era made a mockery of this. Here comes the greenies crowd that has no idea the difference between HGH and high level caffeine

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[Akphillips86]

Judge is just a big freaking guy with a massive frame. Unfounded juicing allegations are just grasping at straws to minimize his accomplishments and elevate the 90’s roiders.

I even understand why the guys in the 90’s did it and don’t think they should be demonized the way they are, but Judge is doing it unaided and that’s what is truly impressive to me. Bonds was a phenomenal hitter, but he didn’t even have 62 in him naturally. No bias, that’s just a physical reality.

I remember watching Judge play in the minors for Scranton before I knew anything about him and he stood out like a sore thumb. I distinctly remember saying to my friend, “Wow, this guy is huge for an outfielder, I wonder if he can hit?” That question has since been answered haha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

I don't believe that's the 1st time fabiani accused judge of roids and probably not the last either.

Anyone over 27 who does well is juicing. Proven Fabifact!

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

I don't believe that's the 1st time fabiani accused judge of roids and probably not the last either.

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Anyone over 27 who does well is juicing. Proven Fabifact!

I'm not accusing Judge of anything -- I'm looking at the facts and speculating:

Between 2018 and 2021, Judge played only 71% of his teams games. He didn't reach 150 games in a single season during that time, even though he was in his physical prime years of age 26 to age 29 seasons.

Since then, he's played nearly every one of his team's games aside from missing time due to an impact injury at Dodger Stadium. He's played 150 games in a season twice. He's played nearly half his games in center field, which is a physically demanding position, especially for a guy his size.

A big-sized outfielder like Mike Trout who started having injury problems around the same time period as Judge can't stay on the field, but Judge is suddenly one of the most durable and consistent players in the game. Make it make sense.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

I'm not accusing Judge of anything -- I'm looking at the facts and speculating:

Between 2018 and 2021, Judge played only 71% of his teams games. He didn't reach 150 games in a single season during that time, even though he was in his physical prime years of age 26 to age 29 seasons.

Since then, he's played nearly every one of his team's games aside from missing time due to an impact injury at Dodger Stadium. He's played 150 games in a season twice. He's played nearly half his games in center field, which is a physically demanding position, especially for a guy his size.

A big-sized outfielder like Mike Trout who started having injury problems around the same time period as Judge can't stay on the field, but Judge is suddenly one of the most durable and consistent players in the game. Make it make sense.

You're right, he played 148 in 2021. Hooray for arbitrary cutoffs!

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

And what a shame that is, that his fake stats are held up by fools to make comparisons to players that are 4x the man that he was. Baseball should have celebrated Judge's 62nd HR a lot more than they did. It's not about disliking Bonds it's about understanding how his crimes against baseball have destroyed the best part of baseball...the fabric of statistics that make comparing various generations possible. No sport is as easily comparable across generations as baseball. The PED era made a mockery of this. Here comes the greenies crowd that has no idea the difference between HGH and high level caffeine

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

As someone who uses WAR to compare players, you should know that it attempts to normalize for league average. That means an enhanced player playing in a era of widespread enhancement is going to have their WAR adjusted downward.

Bonds was so good, he dwarfed his steroid-using peers in a part of his career when players are typically in decline or retired.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by JRX

You're right, he played 148 in 2021. Hooray for arbitrary cutoffs!

And? I included 2021 in my analysis. He also struggled with health issues that season as well:

after being removed in the ninth inning of Tuesday’s victory, with what manager Aaron Boone called “lower body soreness.”

Boone said he expected Judge to be in the lineup for Thursday’s day game, but was intentionally vague Wednesday, refusing to go into further specifics even when pressed.

“He’s a little banged up on the trip,’’ Boone said before the game. “I would say a number parts of the lower body [are sore].”

Boone defended not detailing exactly what’s bothering Judge, mentioning “multiple minor things that pop up.”

“There’s times it’s absolutely, clearly specific,’’ Boone said. “And other times it’s a little bit of gray, a little bit gray and a little bit wear-and-tear, so that’s what I leave it at.”

https://nypost.com/2021/04/28/yankee...njury-details/

It's amazing how we don't hear about this stuff anymore -- he's become a paragon of health and durability.

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

As someone who uses WAR to compare players, you should know that it attempts to normalize for league average. That means an enhanced player playing in a era of widespread enhancement is going to have their WAR adjusted downward.



Bonds was so good, he dwarfed his steroid-using peers in a part of his career when players are typically in decline or retired.

I referenced 62 HR being the real record. Your argument is still obviously wrong because no player had a Silicon Valley PED company behind them. Tell me, how do you normalize for that? Most of these guys were getting their stuff in the Caribbean or from Miami by way of the Caribbean and Bonds was over there dealing with the literal best minds in pharmaceutical pathology & blood pharmacology. What was the league average for head size increase?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

I referenced 62 HR being the real record. Your argument is still obviously wrong because no player had a Silicon Valley PED company behind them. Tell me, how do you normalize for that? Most of these guys were getting their stuff in the Caribbean or from Miami by way of the Caribbean and Bonds was over there dealing with the literal best minds in pharmaceutical pathology & blood pharmacology. What was the league average for head size increase?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Unlike you, apparently, I've read a lot about that era and the BALCO scandal. Bonds was using a lot of the same stuff body builders were using. The only difference is he was using the cream and clear which were designer steroids and undetectable in tests at the time. His numbers weren't created in a laboratory, which is silly. The owner of BALCO, Victor Conte, just provided Bonds' trainer and other athletes with undetectable steroids and blood work -- nothing special.

Steroids were available over the counter at GNC. You didn't need to go to another country to get them -- it was the wild west of nutrition supplements.

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Unlike you, apparently, I've read a lot about that era and the BALCO scandal. Bonds was using a lot of the same stuff body builders were using. The only difference is he was using the cream and clear which were designer steroids and undetectable in tests at the time. His numbers weren't created in a laboratory, which is silly. The owner of BALCO, Victor Conte, just provided Bonds' trainer and other athletes with undetectable steroids and blood work -- nothing special.



Steroids were available over the counter at GNC. You didn't need to go to another country to get them -- it was the wild west of nutrition supplements.

I won't ruin the Judge thread for others, but I know 100x what you know and will respond to any DM interested in discussing it.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[fabiani12333]

If you want to believe 62 is the real home run record, have at it -- people believe in a lot of phony stuff.

If you want to believe current MLB players aren't using PEDs, you can live in that fantasy land, too.

[NickyCards]

Why is it so hard to believe that Aaron Judge, who is bigger than any two users here in a trench coat, is capable of naturally hitting 62 home runs? He is a generational talent, and his progress as a hitter from 2017 has been amazing to watch. If you think MLB is letting players take juice, take off the tin foil hat. They didn't let Tatis slide.

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

If you want to believe 62 is the real home run record, have at it -- people believe in a lot of phony stuff.

If you want to believe current MLB players aren't using PEDs, you can live in that fantasy land, too.

For the last time, what Bonds was doing and what other players are doing are so dramatically different, they cannot be compared. "It's just the cream and the clear, doesn't that seem so innocent "? Bahahaha You all can't even begin to fathom the advantages that Bonds had over even players like Arod. Maybe Barry can create his own hall of fame. Do you go to cycling forums and tell everyone how great Lance Armstrong was?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by NickyCards

Why is it so hard to believe that Aaron Judge, who is bigger than any two users here in a trench coat, is capable of naturally hitting 62 home runs? He is a generational talent, and his progress as a hitter from 2017 has been amazing to watch. If you think MLB is letting players take juice, take off the tin foil hat. They didn't let Tatis slide.

Who's questioning his natural ability to hit 62? He hit 52 his rookie season. The question is his durability and consistency -- they've dramatically improved in his 30s.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by Biohazarddfl

For the last time, what Bonds was doing and what other players are doing are so dramatically different, they cannot be compared. "It's just the cream and the clear, doesn't that seem so innocent "? Bahahaha You all can't even begin to fathom the advantages that Bonds had over even players like Arod. Maybe Barry can create his own hall of fame. Do you go to cycling forums and tell everyone how great Lance Armstrong was?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Like I said, I've read a lot about it. What he reportedly took has been reported on. He was taking the same stuff body builders were taking, aside from the cream and clear which were meant to be undetectable in tests -- they weren't a super serum like what Steve Rogers took in Captain America.

If you want to believe Bonds' second half numbers were purely a creation of PEDs, you have that right. Just conveniently ignore how great "skinny" Bonds was and how good his father was.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Who's questioning his natural ability to hit 62? He hit 52 his rookie season. The question is his durability and consistency -- they've dramatically improved in his 30s.

Let's say we use 148 as the cutoff, he's played 4 full seasons, and got hurt 3 seasons plus 1 covid year, and one year his injury was due to the Dodgers being cheap skates so he had two seasons with injuries.

[Biohazarddfl]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Like I said, I've read a lot about it. What he reportedly took has been reported on. He was taking the same stuff body builders were taking, aside from the cream and clear which were meant to be undetectable in tests -- they weren't a super serum like what Steve Rogers took in Captain America.



If you want to believe Bonds' second half numbers were purely a creation of PEDs, you have that right. Just conveniently ignore how great "skinny" Bonds was and how good his father was.

DM me. Please stop ruining the thread for these fine people

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[GabrielCards]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Who's questioning his natural ability to hit 62? He hit 52 his rookie season. The question is his durability and consistency -- they've dramatically improved in his 30s.

Durability hasn't "dramatically improved" lol...some injures are just bad luck and have absolutely nothing to do with age. Futhermore players can play more carefully so as not to take as many injury risks. Also great players can improve in many aspects as their career unfolds. Judge is absolutely the "cleanest" top power hitting Superstar we've seen in a very long time. Just enjoy and stop makng pointless comments.

[kyle1707]

He’s a hof imo

He’s going to end up having 2-3 of the greatest modern seasons of all time

But he does have more 200 more k’s then hits right now.

So I can see why people are concerned about buying high on cards

Hope he stays healthy for next 5 years. He’s special .. I never thought he would be ..

[livfreely]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

As someone who uses WAR to compare players, you should know that it attempts to normalize for league average. That means an enhanced player playing in a era of widespread enhancement is going to have their WAR adjusted downward.

Bonds was so good, he dwarfed his steroid-using peers in a part of his career when players are typically in decline or retired.

Bonds sucks because of his juicing period. As others have stated he ruined that for himself. If he was sooo great he should have stayed off of them. I grew up in that era, and count it as garbage now.

That’s why Griffey is so much more respected.

Judge is on another level. The next comparison “may be” Jac C. As a freak of nature physically in baseball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by GabrielCards

Durability hasn't "dramatically improved" lol...some injures are just bad luck and have absolutely nothing to do with age. Futhermore players can play more carefully so as not to take as many injury risks. Also great players can improve in many aspects as their career unfolds. Judge is absolutely the "cleanest" top power hitting Superstar we've seen in a very long time. Just enjoy and stop makng pointless comments.

His two highest single-season games played and PA totals are 2022 and 2024, which were also his two MVP seasons. He's played in every game so far this season. He's the most durable he's ever been.

A very clear before-and-after picture can be presented:

2018-2021: .279/.378/.539, .917 OPS, 147 OPS+, 71% games played (390/546), 4.7 bWAR per-season average

2022-2025: .312/.438/.680, 1.118 OPS, 209 OPS+, 87% games played (458/523), 7.3 bWAR per-season average

[GabrielCards]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

His two highest single-season games played and PA totals are 2022 and 2024, which were also his two MVP seasons. He's played in every game so far this season. He's the most durable he's ever been.

A very clear before-and-after picture can be presented:

2018-2021: .279/.378/.539, .917 OPS, 147 OPS+, 71% games played (390/546), 4.7 bWAR per-season average

2022-2025: .312/.438/.680, 1.118 OPS, 209 OPS+, 87% games played (458/523), 7.3 bWAR per-season average

Has ever occured to you that there are a plethora of reasons why someone might peak and become a better player late 20s / early 30s that have nothng to do with PEDs? Have you thought things through that far?

[GabrielCards]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

His two highest single-season games played and PA totals are 2022 and 2024, which were also his two MVP seasons. He's played in every game so far this season. He's the most durable he's ever been.

A very clear before-and-after picture can be presented:

2018-2021: .279/.378/.539, .917 OPS, 147 OPS+, 71% games played (390/546), 4.7 bWAR per-season average

2022-2025: .312/.438/.680, 1.118 OPS, 209 OPS+, 87% games played (458/523), 7.3 bWAR per-season average

Randy Johnson. He had an ERA of 3.78 in his 20s and an ERA of 2.75 in his 30s. Won all 5 of his Cy Young awards in his 30s. Was he on PEDs?

[JRX]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

His two highest single-season games played and PA totals are 2022 and 2024, which were also his two MVP seasons. He's played in every game so far this season. He's the most durable he's ever been.

A very clear before-and-after picture can be presented:

2018-2021: .279/.378/.539, .917 OPS, 147 OPS+, 71% games played (390/546), 4.7 bWAR per-season average

2022-2025: .312/.438/.680, 1.118 OPS, 209 OPS+, 87% games played (458/523), 7.3 bWAR per-season average

Come back in 3 years and let us know if his slg magically jumps 200 pts at age 36.

[GabrielCards]

Originally Posted by JRX

Come back in 3 years and let us know if his slg magically jumps 200 pts at age 36.

Exactly!