Your 2025 AL MVP will be....?

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Tim

This post says it all for me. If a voter thinks 60 HR vs 51 HR is significantly more important than those gaps above, then to me that's crazy. I don't care about the catcher vs (mostly) RF argument either in context of those gaps. The comments about Raleigh leading his team to a division are myopic as Judge has done the same thing.

This is starting to remind me of other past joke MVP selections (Altuve over Judge and Stanton with 2 more HR over Votto when Votto had the much better overall year).

The media likes new stories and Cal is a great story. He may yet break 62. A catcher has never hit more HR though nobody is apparently raising eyebrows over this we just all accept he has a big butt and ignore how huge an outlier this season is for him.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by SaveMeTheGum

Nor does it say the highest adjusted OPS+. It says "Valuable" which is left to the voter to determine. To me, a gold/platinum glove catcher that hits 60 HRs in a non-hitters ballpark and leads his team to the post season gets it for me. As does the guy that hits 50 HRs and strikes out 11.8 batters per 9 innings. Being just a really great hitter is soooooooooo 1950s.

Fangraphs factors in catcher defense -- blocking, throwing and framing. It says Cal is still second to Judge in overall value.

But let's say it's underselling Cal's defensive value and we bump it up some more. All that does is tie him with Judge for the league lead -- it doesn't mean he's been more valuable.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Fangraphs factors in catcher defense -- blocking, throwing and framing. It says Cal is still second to Judge in overall value.

But let's say it's underselling Cal's defensive value and we bump it up some more. All that does is tie him with Judge for the league lead -- it doesn't mean he's been more valuable.

What is the difference in 0.5 WAR?

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan1999

There's just such a huge gap with many stats...BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+/wRC+....even WAR. If Judge had just a slight edge in all those stats, I could see voting for Dumper easily. But there are YUUUUUGE gaps between Judge and Raleigh in many of the most important categories: 80 points for BA, 94 points for OBP, 83 SLG, *177* points OPS, 41 points OPS+.
I mean these are Grand Canyon-esque gaps, not a skip and jump.

I guess it really boils down to how many MVP voters are swayed by the narrative Big D has set having arguably the greatest season ever by a catcher versus a ridiculously good, but not career year for Judge.

It's not the greatest season by a catcher -- not even in recent memory.

Buster Posey had a better season in 2012:

2012 NL ranks:
AVG: 1
OBP: 1
SLG: 3
OPS+: 1
wRC+: 1
HR: 22
RBI: 6
WPA: 3
cWPA: 2
RE24: 2
bWAR: 1
fWAR: 1

That's while hitting half the time at the worst offensive ball park in the league.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

Raleigh shouldn’t be close.

This still applies.

[base set]

So who finishes 3rd? J-Rod? J-Ram? Scooby-Do?

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

I love how both sides are blaming “media narrative” as to why their guy won’t win.

[SaveMeTheGum]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

This still applies.

Vegas disagrees significantly.

Originally Posted by base set

So who finishes 3rd? J-Rod? J-Ram? Scooby-Do?

Witt Jr

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by base set

So who finishes 3rd? J-Rod? J-Ram? Scooby-Do?

Now that’s a real interesting question! For most of the year it was Witt, but J-Ram and making a strong push at the end here.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by base set

So who finishes 3rd? J-Rod? J-Ram? Scooby-Do?

I would have said Skubal 3 weeks ago, but the Tigers' collapse combined with his merely "good" not great last few starts have dulled his star. I would say JRam gets the 2nd runner up in the end due to the Guardians' supernova-hot finish. Then BWJ 4th, and Skubal 5th. JROD 6th due to his craptacular first half.

[JRX]

When you add in the NL its not that different, Judge leads mlb in avg by 13, obp by 56, slg by 64, wRC+ by 31 which is 18% higher than Ohtani, 127pts in OPS.

[JRX]

Maybe just give Judge his own award and the rest of mlb can fight over things like mvp lol

[Boo]

NL mvp, AL mvp, MLB mvp.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by Boo

NL mvp, AL mvp, MLB mvp.

Yeah but then the fans of players who won the AL or NL MVP would want to know why they didn't win MLB MVP.

[jetershelmet]

Originally Posted by Tim

This post says it all for me. If a voter thinks 60 HR vs 51 HR is significantly more important than those gaps above, then to me that's crazy. I don't care about the catcher vs (mostly) RF argument either in context of those gaps. The comments about Raleigh leading his team to a division are myopic as Judge has done the same thing.

This is starting to remind me of other past joke MVP selections (Altuve over Judge and Stanton with 2 more HR over Votto when Votto had the much better overall year).

Why don't you care about the catcher vs RF argument? It's literally the only reason we're out here debating. If Raleigh played any other position besides catcher, Judge wins by a landslide.

[NYRE2PECT]

Originally Posted by Boo

NL mvp, AL mvp, MLB mvp.

Give them all a trophy.

It helped an entire generation learn how to cope with adversity.

[hche]

Voting fatigue will make voters found reasons to vote for Raleigh over Judge.

"Thank you Judge for the historic season but you have done that before. Let's give that to someone who havent done it."

:P

[jhssketchcards]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

But why? He broke an historic home run record just like Cal did this year? Are we now left to determine if the rookie home run record is less important than a catcher or switch hitter home run record? It is more historic because Cal passed a Yankees Hall of Famer and Judge simply passed Mark McGwire?

I will venture to say the #1 reason Judge lost the MVP to Altuve that year is the fact that Judge's Ks were a big factor. Cal has significantly more Ks than Judge this year.

K’s don’t matter to writers, or most fans any more.
People talking about Kyle Sxhwarber being. HOF proves that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by JRX

Maybe just give Judge his own award and the rest of mlb can fight over things like mvp lol

Most steroids used award? We can call it the Barry Bonds Award

[jhssketchcards]

Imagine a catcher, who looks like he works at Home Depot, breaking Judge’s AL HR record just a few years after Judge broke Ruth’s record.

And to know the Yankess will lose in the playoffs again…

Man, the Yankees just can’t have nice things


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JRX]

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

Imagine a catcher, who looks like he works at Home Depot, breaking Judge’s AL HR record just a few years after Judge broke Ruth’s record.

And to know the Yankess will lose in the playoffs again…

Man, the Yankees just can’t have nice things


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mean Maris.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by jetershelmet

Why don't you care about the catcher vs RF argument? It's literally the only reason we're out here debating. If Raleigh played any other position besides catcher, Judge wins by a landslide.

Others in this thread have already proven Raleigh is a barely above average catcher this season.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Tim

Others in this thread have already proven Raleigh is a barely above average catcher this season.

....nobody has proven that because it's not true LOL.

[jraarmy]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

It's not the greatest season by a catcher -- not even in recent memory.

Buster Posey had a better season in 2012:

2012 NL ranks:
AVG: 1
OBP: 1
SLG: 3
OPS+: 1
wRC+: 1
HR: 22
RBI: 6
WPA: 3
cWPA: 2
RE24: 2
bWAR: 1
fWAR: 1

That's while hitting half the time at the worst offensive ball park in the league.

Is there a site that you can plugs names into to compare players. just quickly looking feel like cals having a better season. From a Quick Look cal has him in runs hr rbi sb ops ops+and slug

Posey gets the edge in batting avg obp doubles and war for now but still 4 games to go and the bwar diff is .4

[JRX]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

....nobody has proven that because it's not true LOL.

The 4 main categories savant tracks on the player page he's 11th, 73rd, 93rd, and 38th percentile.

The best defensive catcher is probably Kirk who is 100th, 63rd, 98th, 51st percentiles.

Cal is good at some things and bad at other things as a catcher so bit of a mixed bag.